Does anyone understand the need for all of these digital components?

caesar · Jun 15, 2024

Does anyone understand the need for all of these digital components, that a reviewer is using? What are they all for? Are all needed? And how do they benefit the streaming setup?

1. dcs DAC and Innuos Statement Next-Gen Music Server - obvious
2. Small Green Computer Sonore Deluxe opticalModule - why optical module? what is wrong with innous?
3. Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with SOtM sCLK-OCX10 Master Clock and sPS-500 power supply - what the heck is this? and why add clock and power supply?

4. Finisar FTLF8519P3BNL and Broadcom/Avago AFBR-5718PZ 1GB SX-SFP, Gen 5 fiberoptic modules - -what the heck is this? and why?

5. Nordost QNet switch and QSource linear power supplies (2); why add switch when he's got all the other stuff? and why power supplies for the switch?

6. Sonore Audiophile Linear Power Supply - why another power supply? for which component?

7. Synology 5-bay 1019+ NAS with Ferrum Hypsos linear/switching hybrid power supply - what does the power supply add here?

8. Linksys MR9000 mesh router and Arris modem - what is this router? and why is there a modem with the router?

9. Apple 2023 iPad Pro and 2017 MacBook Pro laptop with 2.8GHz Intel i7, SSD, 16GB RAM - such an old apple macbook is good enough, considering the guys has so many other components? is it better than more recent alternatives or did he run out of money?

Wow! and people give vinyl guys a hard time for being obsessive!

PYP · Jun 15, 2024

caesar said:
Does anyone understand the need for all of these digital components, that a reviewer is using? What are they all for? Are all needed? And how do they benefit the streaming setup?

1. dcs DAC and Innuos Statement Next-Gen Music Server - obvious
2. Small Green Computer Sonore Deluxe opticalModule - why optical module? what is wrong with innous?
3. Uptone Audio EtherREGEN with SOtM sCLK-OCX10 Master Clock and sPS-500 power supply - what the heck is this? and why add clock and power supply?

4. Finisar FTLF8519P3BNL and Broadcom/Avago AFBR-5718PZ 1GB SX-SFP, Gen 5 fiberoptic modules - -what the heck is this? and why?

5. Nordost QNet switch and QSource linear power supplies (2); why add switch when he's got all the other stuff? and why power supplies for the switch?

6. Sonore Audiophile Linear Power Supply - why another power supply? for which component?

7. Synology 5-bay 1019+ NAS with Ferrum Hypsos linear/switching hybrid power supply - what does the power supply add here?

8. Linksys MR9000 mesh router and Arris modem - what is this router? and why is there a modem with the router?

9. Apple 2023 iPad Pro and 2017 MacBook Pro laptop with 2.8GHz Intel i7, SSD, 16GB RAM - such an old apple macbook is good enough, considering the guys has so many other components? is it better than more recent alternatives or did he run out of money?

Wow! and people give vinyl guys a hard time for being obsessive!

Some people enjoy going down the rabbit whole. While I was a bit less obsessive, experimenting was educational. I may be oversimplifying, but once I tried a Grimm MU1 streamer, a lot of little boxes (including clock, switches, optical, LPSs for each) went to better homes. In essence, the MU1 is more immune to noise delivered via copper ethernet and from the power source. And every device, including LPS, has their own sound. Pretty soon, it is difficult to determine which components are dominating the sound signature. When that happens, it is a good time to start removing gear and listen.

Now, with the Grimm MU2, which consolidates their streamer/upsampler with their newly designed DAC and therefore eliminates the usual external cable/interface between streamer and DAC, I have found a simple solution that is very musically satisfying. But that is just one path and all the others are valid too, of course.

For me, the things that make this hobby less enjoyable are the audio myths and audio dogma. Folks will state myths/dogma as fact. It is best to empirically test our assumptions.

hopkins · Jun 16, 2024

I went down this rabbit hole myself for a few years - tweaking digital in all sorts of ways, with some off the shelf products and some DIY. Retrospectively, it was fun and a learning experience, but I don't think the end results were that convincing (but at the time I thought they were). Many will explain that these are all necessary to get the best of digital. Others will point to products that address the underlying issues and render some of these tweaks obsolete today. Ans some will say it's all unnecessary. There's no consensus about all this.

This all started in the DIY community, so you could do things at low cost and hope to transform the sound of your system as a result...

Kingrex · Jun 16, 2024

It all makes sense to me.

For streaming you need to clean the whole chain. The Grimm is suppose to be nice, but your listening to music you own. Basically a CD player where you burned the songs on a hard drive.

In short you have a computer to stream to a DAC. You have quality power supplies to quality switches and routers to keep noise down. You have an external clock to reduce jitter. You have a macbook to sit in a chair and mirror the green computer to.select songs.
You have a NAS to listen to music you own. You could alsohave some music in the Innuos, but some people have more than the internal storage will hold. Technology is solving.that.

audiobomber · Jun 16, 2024

Computer audio is a new and unfolding pursuit for audiophiles. We started by connecting a computer or laptop to a DAC. USB was sketchy and benefitted from a USB cleaner. Then specialized small board computers were invented (microRendu, sMS-200, etc.), variously called a renderer, streamer, network player, with better sound than a general computer. Many more designs followed. Someone noticed that a switch between your router and network player improved the sound, which begat audiophile switches, starting with the EtherREGEN and blossoming from there. Power supply upgrades added to the sound quality of network gear, so more boxes. I followed the path above, now I have lots of boxes. The advantage is that I was able to build in stages, with no large outlay.

There is no DAC I am aware of that will not benefit from network upgrades. I don't believe there is any single network that can't be improved by adding a switch. I base this on net research, as well as a friend who uses a K50 and Tambaqui, with virtually the same network boxes that I use. Each box improved his system. In theory a DAC shouldn't need any upstream cleaning, but we're not there yet. Maybe someday.

hopkins · Jun 16, 2024

If you assume that DACs are indeed susceptible to the "quality" of the incoming signal (noise and jitter), then you also have to accept that the same components may yield different results in different systems. It's a free for all.

PYP · Jun 17, 2024

Kingrex said:
It all makes sense to me.

For streaming you need to clean the whole chain. The Grimm is suppose to be nice, but your listening to music you own. Basically a CD player where you burned the songs on a hard drive.

In short you have a computer to stream to a DAC. You have quality power supplies to quality switches and routers to keep noise down. You have an external clock to reduce jitter. You have a macbook to sit in a chair and mirror the green computer to.select songs.
You have a NAS to listen to music you own. You could alsohave some music in the Innuos, but some people have more than the internal storage will hold. Technology is solving.that.

95% of the time, I'm streaming music to the Grimm MU2. I don't hear much of a difference streaming vs. local storage. But I know many folks say they do or say it must be so. Some people don't like the sound of Roon. My current opinion is that Grimm has found a way to make Roon sound very good indeed as well as to minimize noise from power and from copper ethernet.

The Shunyata Denali certainly is the central factor in getting the power cleaned up (based upon my own experiments and hearing). And the Network Acoustics Muon Pro passive filter is helpful with ethernet common-mode noise. I don't know if adding a good switch would further improve my current setup (shown in my signature). When I had the MU1 streamer + Tambaqui (and no Makua preamp), as I posted above, I removed the switches and preferred it that way. When I added the Muon Pro to that setup (MU1 + MMT), there was some improvement. BTW, tried a grounding box (CAD) with that setup and there was no difference at all.

Like many others here, my goal is to have a good facsimile of a live musical performance. For me, that happens when the gear/speakers seem to disappear.

Kingrex · Jun 17, 2024

When I am using files on the hard drive, I can disconnect the ethernet cable and no difference. I can also turn off the wifi in my house and no difference. But can see about 15 wifi from my house so there is a lot of polution.

All the ethernet filters I have tried took the life from the music. Dark.

A good switch helped streaming.

Very much hear the softare changes in my server. Less so the hardware changes. But I am considering a new JCat card and external clock. Maybe.

I believe I will get much larger gains via the speaker and room. All the digital accessories help. But they are smaller fine tuning. My belief if you get a really big change from some part of the digital chain, you had a bottle neck piece. I hate to say that as its an open door to anyone that want to cry you need to go totally overboard as you don't know you have a bottle neck till you hear it. In my system, my digital is very close to my analog, so I figure I have it close. Thats the beauty of a second source. Sort of a test to know what is what.

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Does anyone understand the need for all of these digital components?

caesar

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PYP

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hopkins

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Kingrex

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audiobomber

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hopkins

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PYP

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Kingrex

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