What's Best in Mid-Tier Cables
- Thread starter KeithR
- Start date
Different strokes. In the end it is the result not the approach that matters. And it isn't necessarily about requiring enhancement or curating. I have always found it fun to experiment with cables and tweaks, have audiophile colleagues join me in listening tests, etc. I've aIso seen little evidence that higher end gear doesn't benefit from premium cables and tweaks. When I look at what my audiophile colleagues are doing, or for example at what cost no object Audio Exotics uses and sells, and the comments of their wealthy customers on their forum I see plenty of tweaking of the type I have done. What I don't see is the cable folly and aversion to tweaks that I see at WBF. I have by the way described my approach (necessitated by limited resources) to assembling my system on this forum, which was to have high performing high value (mostly used and demo) components modified/upgraded, achieving comparable performance to much more expensive gear (total system cost little more than half the price of a pair of Lamm ML2.2 monoblocks). This approach might benefit a little more from "curating" than one with fewer financial constraints, but whatever your system consists of, if you haven't tried a specific cable or tweak you don't know whether or not your system would benefit. My system currently provides "end game" level performance for my room size, and to my ears is unsurpassed by anything I've heard at shows, dealers, and audiophile colleagues' homes (that would fit in my listening room) at any price. What more could I ask for?
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I would put most of the Inakustik cables into the mid-tier category. Their Air reference copper cables would fit there and sound very good. Their silver air reference are simply awesome but can get very pricey for longer speakers cables...top tier prices at that point. I use their Silver air reference interconnects and their copper air reference digital cables. Speaker cables I currently use flat copper ribbon from Goertz...the best value in cables I have ever found. I also still use Goertz silver ribbon interconnects on my phono setup.
Your ears are all that matters!
I note here only that shows and dealers regardless of price are not the places to hear top systems + rooms. The sound I have heard in the top private systems + rooms I have visited surpasses anything I have ever heard at shows and dealers* at any price.
* There are exceptions to every generalization, and this generalization is no exception. Chris Hesse's custom built dealer rooms are world class.
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I would like to take a stab at this.
I find that "blur" can be called "warmth". What is "blur"? It is time smearing of the signal. There are a few ways to do this. Cables can smear the timing or poor speaker alignment can smear the timing or too much resonant engery in a component can smear the timing or ... ? To me this kind of "warmth" is false warmth and should be avoided. I believe this is what Dave is referring to and I would agree that i have heard many cables do this false warmth thing.
What a good cable will do is lower the noise floor. When the noise floor goes down the music almost always picks up body. When body is added to the music then it will also sound warmer but without the blur.
Just my 2c. YMMV.
Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
I have joined more well-heeled audiophile colleagues at private after hours demos at shows and by appointment demos at dealers, and listened to their cost no object systems at their homes. I have been an audiophile for 50 years. There is little that I have not seen or heard.
Good post! I think we'll have to define warmth to be more precise. Most think of warmth as an addition to the sound that is similar in character to even order harmonic distortion. At mid and high frequencies it indeed sounds subjectively warm, but this addition smears or hides detail, the effect is adding a "sameness" to every recording that makes timbre less distinct and reduces the spatial performance of the system. At low frequencies it "fills out" bass and again, sounds somewhat similar to harmonic distortion. This reduces the sharpness of transients and rounds off the leading edges of dynamic swings, and again reduces the distinct timbre of the instrument or vocal. It's not exactly the same as harmonic distortion or speaker/room acoustic issues, but there are definite similarities in how it's perceived.
Some examples... gold plating adds warmth that smears the sound and is the primary reason most high end connectors are not gold plated. You can't buy top-end Furutech in anything other than rhodium and there's a very good reason for this. The issue is most won't go "all-in" on using rhodium and the combination of rhodium with other plating materials is what causes problems and what some think of "the sound of rhodium". Many of my customers have gone all-in on using Furutech rhodium AC power products and in every case the artifacts described as the sound of rhodium simply go away. But warmth does go away too, for better or worse depending on the system, recordings listened to and personal preference. But if the goal is "high fidelity", imo gold plating has no place in a HiFi system.
Copper adds warmth. How much varies, and UPOCC copper is noticeably clearer and less warm than other kinds of copper. High voltage treatments can reduce warmth and increase clarity too. This is my primart criticism of commodity level copper cables like Belden, Mogami, etc... it's warm and smears/hides detail. It prevents a 3-D immersive soundstage from forming, which is imo the primary driver of subjective preference, and thus it fails to provide a "you are there" experience. Instead, you get the much more typical sound of the performance happening in your listening room, and a sameness to the spatial presentation across recordings. Again, if the goal is high fidelity, most copper cables have no place in a HiFi system, but there are some exceptions. OTOH, the best UPOCC silver is still better as far as clarity and resolution than any copper cable. UPOCC silver is expensive, so I always recommend prioritizing interconnect cables. It's much easier to get good results from copper PC and SC vs IC cables.
A certain amount of warmth is required to have realistic tonality though, but a lot of this is ideally gained from the reduction of noise that causes the subjective effect of brightness. The more of this kind of noise you have, the more warmth is required to balance it out and hide these flaws and prevent listening fatigue. Some things can add warmth without as much sacrifice in resolution as others too. I have a new cable that I've been meaning to introduce for a long time, but covid-related health issues have prevented that. The cable's main goal is a reduction of noise that is typical with conventional wire, and the end result is a total elimination of any hint of "the sound of silver" and a total lack of brightness. OTOH, it's not warm either, It's just very quiet, incredibly resolving, but it's also very low on stimulation as a result, so it doesn't sound as exciting as some might like. This may not be preferred on rock or electronica, but for acoustic music and very complex large-scale classical, it's on another level vs any other cable on the market.
Also, I 100% agree a good cable will lower the noise floor, but that is with many types of noise and artifacts, warmth is only one of many issues a good cable avoids adding to the sound.
Curious - do you think that WBF members who use Ching Cheng, industrial, pro audio, or other cheap, basic cables with their top tier gear would realize an improvement in sound quality by switching to Zenwave cables? If so, why?
This has been beaten to death, let's keep it dead. I think you can read my posts and come to your own conclusions.
I missed your posts on this. Can you summarize your previous answer to this question or point me to the approximate date(s) of your post(s) that responded to it?
I’m a fan of DH LABS but given the prices of what you are looking at maybe these aren’t mid tier.
If a good cable lowers the noise floor why isn't a balanced cable whose conductors are wrapped in a 100% coverage woven shield, with maybe all of that wrapped in an outer shield which is separately grounded, all we need?
Shouldn't the application of RF principles and grounding principles and Faraday principles to audio cables achieve imperviousness to noise without costing thousands of dollars per meter for the fanciest of high-end audio cables?
Shouldn't the application of RF principles and grounding principles and Faraday principles to audio cables achieve imperviousness to noise without costing thousands of dollars per meter for the fanciest of high-end audio cables?
Self noise due to triboelectric effects is actually a larger issue in most systems.
Republicoftexas69
Well-Known Member
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