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ECDesigns' powerDAC-SX: a new way of driving your speakers and headphones

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hopkins

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I am creating this topic in the "General Audio Forum" as it deals with a product that falls in neither the "Digital Audio Forum" nor the "Power Amplifiers and Preamplifiers Forum", and is worthy of your attention.

I am a (happy) customer - I have rambled about this product on my system thread. There was some discussion about the technology used, and I tried to provide an overview, but I am not a "techie". While the proof is in the pudding, some understanding of what's going on under the hood is of interest, I believe.

The designers of this product - ECDesigns - have recently added to their website a web page describing how this thing works. I find it gives a good overview:

No Amplifiers here. – ECdesigns

ecdesigns.nl ecdesigns.nl

I'm adding here also a picture of the inside:

IMG_1949.jpeg

From rear to front:

- Left and right programmable linear power supplies for the left and right Power D/A converters.
- Left and right black transformers for phantom power supplies for the left and right power D/A converters.
- Center transformer = Linear DAPI power supply.
- Center front board = DAPI board (Digital Audio Parallel Interface)
- Front center = Display keys and IR module
- Left and right front = Power D/A converters for left and right channel

Power D/A converter board power resistors are cooled through heat pads to the chassis. This version is also equipped with XLR headphone connector on front.

If there are questions, I may be able to answer some, otherwise ECDesigns have their email on their website, for those curious to learn more.

I'll be writing a modest "review" of this product. I've been using it for approximately 9 months now, both with digital and analog sources.
 
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hopkins said:
I am creating this topic in the "General Audio Forum" as it deals with a product that falls in neither the "Digital Audio Forum" nor the "Power Amplifiers and Preamplifiers Forum", and is worthy of your attention.

I am a (happy) customer - I have rambled about this product on my system thread. There was some discussion about the technology used, and I tried to provide an overview, but I am not a "techie". While the proof is in the pudding, some understanding of what's going on under the hood is of interest, I believe.

The designers of this product - ECDesigns - have recently added to their website a web page describing how this thing works. I find it gives a good overview:

No Amplifiers here. – ECdesigns

ecdesigns.nl ecdesigns.nl

I'm adding here also a picture of the inside:

View attachment 133704

From rear to front:

- Left and right programmable linear power supplies for the left and right Power D/A converters.
- Left and right black transformers for phantom power supplies for the left and right power D/A converters.
- Center transformer = Linear DAPI power supply.
- Center front board = DAPI board (Digital Audio Parallel Interface)
- Front center = Display keys and IR module
- Left and right front = Power D/A converters for left and right channel

Power D/A converter board power resistors are cooled through heat pads to the chassis. This version is also equipped with XLR headphone connector on front.

If there are questions, I may be able to answer some, otherwise ECDesigns have their email on their website, for those curious to learn more.

I'll be writing a modest "review" of this product. I've been using it for approximately 9 months now, both with digital and analog sources.
Click to expand...
PWM digital amplifiers were around for the last 25 years from companies like Lyngdorf and recently Marantz but this one doesn’t even use PWM, very intriguing. Thanks for sharing.
 
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mtemur said:
PWM digital amplifiers were around for the last 25 years from companies like Lyngdorf and recently Marantz but this one doesn’t even use PWM, very intriguing. Thanks for sharing.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's intriguing. I think it is safe to say that it has made an impression on those who have heard it. It is important to pair it with speakers that don't "kill" the sound with complex and low quality crossovers, but aside for that there are plenty of options available.

It is dead quiet, and there is very good resolution. This does not mean you hear lots of detail you have not heard before. I have a very hard time explaining how it "sounds". It just sounds "right" to my ears. But I will spend some time writing about my impressions with various speakers, giving some examples of tracks that have really "surprised" me.

The fact that there is only a digital (Toslink) input should not scare people who listen to vinyl. ADCs have come a long way. With a quality ADC capturing the low level signal of a turntable, you can avoid using a phono preamp and output the digital signal to the SX.
 
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After living with the SX for some months I still can’t get over how satisfying this DAC /AMP is.

In my case a concerted 10 year journey for satisfaction ended with the SX. The specifications and science can be found and explained on their website (much better than I can understand or explain).

Listening to music is such an important, emotional part of my and many other fanatics lives that we will go to extreme lengths to satisfy our desires for the perfect sound. I couldn’t ignore the frustration I kept finding with the systems I put together.

As hard as I tried to ignore what I considered the detrimental digital aspects of the sound they just kept interrupting the pleasure. (I wasn’t interested in revisiting or investing in vinyl playback). So I spent time, effort and considerable funds to cure the issue, with various results.

I played with, dacs, amps, sources, cables, plugs, capacitors even and discovered the joy of low watt tube amps and full range single driver speakers.

When the SX arrived I realised the journey was over. The Brown brothers behind EC designs seem to have understood where the problems lie and worked their way slowly and carefully across a series of products - curating each part carefully until perfected and culminating in a truly amazing device that simplifies the whole playback chain.

In my opinion and others who have embraced the EC products, this makes obsolete the necessity for all kinds of weird and wonderful tweaks and add ons that really can’t compensate for fundamental technical challenges at the heart of the main components ie DAC and Amp, (especially the DAC).

The DAC is just sweet. Not sugar sweet but producing a pure, real, deeply-translucent-to-the-music quality and channels the music straight to the body.

The SX Amp (a line with attenuation) is invisible, only doing the job of presenting more music when stepped up.

I have Omega Super Alnico speakers adding to the magic sound I prefer. (With a couple of REL subs for a tiny additional oompah).
I’ve gone through a series of sources - none made any difference to me feeding the SX.

This was hard to accept I have to admit as I’ve had (and still have an Antipodes DX and a Laufer Memory mini player). I would use them but they are not worth the extra effort.

Truly wonderful outcome and an incredibly simple playback chain - laptop, SX, speakers. Now I just explore music not audio technology.
 
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From link above to EC designs webpage
“The PowerDC-SX does not amplify, so noise can’t get amplified either. It offers the maximum obtainable signal to noise ratio, a noise floor so low that it can no longer be heard, a noise floor so low that it seems there is no noise floor.”
 
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Tapatrick said:
After living with the SX for some months I still can’t get over how satisfying this DAC /AMP is.

In my case a concerted 10 year journey for satisfaction ended with the SX. The specifications and science can be found and explained on their website (much better than I can understand or explain).

Listening to music is such an important, emotional part of my and many other fanatics lives that we will go to extreme lengths to satisfy our desires for the perfect sound. I couldn’t ignore the frustration I kept finding with the systems I put together.

As hard as I tried to ignore what I considered the detrimental digital aspects of the sound they just kept interrupting the pleasure. (I wasn’t interested in revisiting or investing in vinyl playback). So I spent time, effort and considerable funds to cure the issue, with various results.

I played with, dacs, amps, sources, cables, plugs, capacitors even and discovered the joy of low watt tube amps and full range single driver speakers.

When the SX arrived I realised the journey was over. The Brown brothers behind EC designs seem to have understood where the problems lie and worked their way slowly and carefully across a series of products - curating each part carefully until perfected and culminating in a truly amazing device that simplifies the whole playback chain.

In my opinion and others who have embraced the EC products, this makes obsolete the necessity for all kinds of weird and wonderful tweaks and add ons that really can’t compensate for fundamental technical challenges at the heart of the main components ie DAC and Amp, (especially the DAC).

The DAC is just sweet. Not sugar sweet but producing a pure, real, deeply-translucent-to-the-music quality and channels the music straight to the body.

The SX Amp (a line with attenuation) is invisible, only doing the job of presenting more music when stepped up.

I have Omega Super Alnico speakers adding to the magic sound I prefer. (With a couple of REL subs for a tiny additional oompah).
I’ve gone through a series of sources - none made any difference to me feeding the SX.

This was hard to accept I have to admit as I’ve had (and still have an Antipodes DX and a Laufer Memory mini player). I would use them but they are not worth the extra effort.

Truly wonderful outcome and an incredibly simple playback chain - laptop, SX, speakers. Now I just explore music not audio technology.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your interesting feedback.

Concerning the question of digital source "optimization": some people still hear differences. ECD explains that some noise from the source may still affect the signal, and it is unavoidable - but that this is greatly reduced with what they have implemented (optical connection, bandwidth limiting, etc...). I don't have the explanations for this and probably would not understand them anyway.

I've tried a variety of solutions without finding differences really convincing, but recently did find something that I think I prefer to the WiiM Pro I was using. It's not a night and day difference, and I think what works for someone may not work for another. As I explained in my thread it may very well be the robust shielding of the source which has an effect in my living room which is inundated with neighbor's wifi. Who knows? As with you, I am perfectly happy with my modest setup and don't feel the need to spend 30k€ on a "high end" digital source to compare.

The way I feel about digital has evolved as my system has improved - and the use of the SX has probably had the biggest impact. I enjoy listening to vinyl as well.
 
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Interesting. I really wanted the music servers that I spent a lot of money on to make a difference as sources but I couldn’t hear anything significant. And I tested over and over.

As I don’t have the ears of a bat ( :) ) I decided the added inconvenience of running headless equipment was not warranted any more.

I do have a topaz transformer that feeds everything so it’s possible that takes care of any gremlins in regards to power input. I’ve always found that an essential component over the years.
 
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Tapatrick said:
From link above to EC designs webpage
“The PowerDC-SX does not amplify, so noise can’t get amplified either. It offers the maximum obtainable signal to noise ratio, a noise floor so low that it can no longer be heard, a noise floor so low that it seems there is no noise floor.”
Click to expand...

Concerning the sense of "black background", which I completely agree with, I was reading yesterday Arthur Salvatore's website and came across this paragraph about SET amps which I quoted in another thread, but feel perfectly applies to the SX:

"SET amplifiers have important and fundamental sonic advantages in the midrange and highs over any other amplifier design in my experience, especially with acoustical music. They have the lowest sound-floor and also are the best "organized" (and music is simply "organized sound")."

I find it hard to describe sound, and this hit a chord.

One of the striking aspects of the sound produced by the SX, which I experienced with a variety of speakers (Altec 755A, open baffle crossover-less, and the ridiculously cheap Teufel) is the clarity with which the instruments/voices are differentiated, both in "space" but also through quality of their individual sounds. Hard to describe...

Does that make sense to you?
 
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hopkins said:
Concerning the sense of "black background", which I completely agree with, I was reading yesterday Arthur Salvatore's website and came across this paragraph about SET amps which I quoted in another thread, but feel perfectly applies to the SX:

"SET amplifiers have important and fundamental sonic advantages in the midrange and highs over any other amplifier design in my experience, especially with acoustical music. They have the lowest sound-floor and also are the best "organized" (and music is simply "organized sound")."

I find it hard to describe sound, and this hit a chord.

One of the striking aspects of the sound produced by the SX, which I experienced with a variety of speakers (Altec 755A, open baffle crossover-less, and the ridiculously cheap Teufel) is the clarity with which the instruments/voices are differentiated, both in "space" but also through quality of their individual sounds. Hard to describe...

Does that make sense to you?
Click to expand...

Yes. There is a similarity to what you are saying. The SX sounds more ‘pure’ however without any connotation of clean or sterile
 
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Tapatrick said:
Nice, And there you have it. Confirming what a few people have been going on about for so long.
Click to expand...

Yes, though I feel there is a big gap with the previous models, at least with the "S" which could also be used without a an additional amp, and which I was able to compare with the latest "SX" model for a few weeks.
 
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Of course. The SX is the dogs bollocks. These days I don’t have much time or energy for the fine details of comparisons that I used to. Just grateful EC designs produced the SX and that I believed your reviews enough to try it. Many thanks.
 
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hopkins said:
The designers of this product - ECDesigns - have recently added to their website a web page describing how this thing works. I find it gives a good overview:

No Amplifiers here. – ECdesigns

ecdesigns.nl ecdesigns.nl
Click to expand...
Yes, I think it gives a good overview about the technology of the device. There is a passage which makes no sense to me, IMO there is a typo:

"On max. volume setting the number 26,144 corresponds to 32 VOLTS. This means that the lowest bit corresponds to 32 / 2ˆ18 = 122 microvolts at the speaker terminal output. All steps between 0 and 26144 are accurate down to the microvolt range offering an extreme accuracy / LINEARITY AT THE SPEAKER TERMINALS that is almost impossible to obtain with any analogue signal path. Because the PowerDAC-SX does not amplify and generates the DESIRED voltage directly it cannot clip. The circuit is also fully DC-coupled so there isn’t any non-linear component in the signal path that could possibly cause any degrading."

IMO, from the context of the other passages of this article the right number is not 26144 but (as they mentioned before) 262144 which is 2ˆ18.
 
matthias said:
Yes, I think it gives a good overview about the technology of the device. There is a passage which makes no sense to me, IMO there is a typo:

"On max. volume setting the number 26,144 corresponds to 32 VOLTS. This means that the lowest bit corresponds to 32 / 2ˆ18 = 122 microvolts at the speaker terminal output. All steps between 0 and 26144 are accurate down to the microvolt range offering an extreme accuracy / LINEARITY AT THE SPEAKER TERMINALS that is almost impossible to obtain with any analogue signal path. Because the PowerDAC-SX does not amplify and generates the DESIRED voltage directly it cannot clip. The circuit is also fully DC-coupled so there isn’t any non-linear component in the signal path that could possibly cause any degrading."

IMO, from the context of the other passages of this article the right number is not 26144 but (as they mentioned before) 262144 which is 2ˆ18.
Click to expand...

I had the same question when I first read the article, and mentioned it to them, but they did not correct it so I don't know. I think you will agree that it is a detail..

It is a good overview.

To be honest, I can't understand the details, but I get the general idea, and though I may obviously be biased in my appraisal, I feel that there is something special (dare I say "unique"?) about the sound, which I have not heard with other equipment. It is hard to put in words... So I am curious to hear what others have to say (though it obviously won't change my own impressions).
 
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hopkins said:
I had the same question when I first read the article, and mentioned it to them, but they did not correct it so I don't know.
Click to expand...
So you didn't get any comment on this both numbers (26144 vs 262144) from them?
 
hopkins said:
But I gave them a number of comments and they don't always reply to all of them...
Click to expand...
That happened to me as well. The best feedback I got was at a time when they were active on diyaudio...but their last post was from two years ago. So it might be the best to post questions or suggestions here on WBF...maybe they care to open an account here, maybe not...anyway there might be the possibility that they read what is posted here :cool:
 
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matthias said:
That happened to me as well. The best feedback I got was at a time when they were active on diyaudio...but their last post was from two years ago. So it might be the best to post questions or suggestions here...maybe they care to open an account, maybe not...anyway there might be the possibility that they read what is posted here :cool:
Click to expand...

I send them a link!

Personally, I find it nice to have a space for "customers" to discuss impressions without interference from the manufacturers.

They generally respond to emails, and even phone calls (all their info is on their website).

The DIYAudio was created 18 years ago by John Brown, to discuss design aspects with other DIY members. When the discussions moved on to his commercial products, he got criticism from DIY members, which probably explains why he stopped posting there. The information on their website is probably sufficient, but if there are other aspects you think should be explained, don't hesitate to let them know (I have in the past).
 
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matthias said:
Yes, I think it gives a good overview about the technology of the device. There is a passage which makes no sense to me, IMO there is a typo:

"On max. volume setting the number 26,144 corresponds to 32 VOLTS. This means that the lowest bit corresponds to 32 / 2ˆ18 = 122 microvolts at the speaker terminal output. All steps between 0 and 26144 are accurate down to the microvolt range offering an extreme accuracy / LINEARITY AT THE SPEAKER TERMINALS that is almost impossible to obtain with any analogue signal path. Because the PowerDAC-SX does not amplify and generates the DESIRED voltage directly it cannot clip. The circuit is also fully DC-coupled so there isn’t any non-linear component in the signal path that could possibly cause any degrading."

IMO, from the context of the other passages of this article the right number is not 26144 but (as they mentioned before) 262144 which is 2ˆ18.
Click to expand...
Yes, right number is 2ˆ18 = 262144
 
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