A question about room demands on speakers

[bonzo75]

No I was talking about the Zus. If Marc can get them about 9-10 ft apart then 14ft distance is pretty good and should energise the room well.
But of course this is only a starting point, the rest done by ear.

You've all this to come Ked. All very well listening to super systems to narrow down your decisions but once you assemble a system, that's when the real fun starts and the education begins.

Cheerio
Blue58

No blue, already did 2. No fun to me with compromised systems, especially listening to 40 concerts a month. Try to.join me for one once. Since you are not much into classical, watching G nR reunion next month and led zep cover band september. And no, I don't listen to super systems alone. I actually seek out more where I can compare stuff. That lets you bring out various characteristics, and that is what for me the hobby is about. Settling down with one piece of gear does not interest me, at least not until I have exhausted all options on that front. Which is why I am now so interested in analog, because so much more to go

 

[spiritofmusic]

8' apart is about max
Any wider and encroachment of descending eaves becomes a limiting factor
Re digital etchedness highlighted on Duettas w Justin's streamer, should not be an issue w creamy, tone rich Eera cdp and analog like SGM/Dac8 or GG

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hey Ked, settling down is not a negative
Maybe chat to yr GF and see what she thinks about continually playing the field LOL
Some of us are into pride of ownership, sympatico w designer ethos, bling factor, getting to know a system
As I said before, Justin's Duettas really excel on his 211s in a sympathetic room, the kind of size you'll prob settle with in Zone One
Looking past that whole presentation saying you could do MUCH better, strikes me as OCD/imperative to investigate ad infinitum/prisoner to "what else can I possibly hear"
You need to specify what didn't wk for you w Justin's 211s on Duettas in his room
Because for me it was a flawless presentation

 

[bonzo75]

Hey Ked, settling down is not a negative
Maybe chat to yr GF and see what she thinks about continually playing the field LOL
Some of us are into pride of ownership, sympatico w designer ethos, bling factor, getting to know a system
As I said before, Justin's Duettas really excel on his 211s in a sympathetic room, the kind of size you'll prob settle with in Zone One
Looking past that whole presentation saying you could do MUCH better, strikes me as OCD/imperative to investigate ad infinitum/prisoner to "what else can I possibly hear"
You need to specify what didn't wk for you w Justin's 211s on Duettas in his room
Because for me it was a flawless presentation

Midrange and involvement. Which is why I preferred my summits and analysis, while he had the bass and dynamics. Scintilla of course just kills everything else on midrange. But FR aside, I also preferred the midrange of lissnr, grands, and Henk's duetta, though they don't have the pure ribbon. I did not like minds on a couple of other Apogees I heard with NATs, they reminded me of Justin. Henk retains the original apogee crossover, Justin's has been changed to suit Justin.

So, it means I am preferring either the crossover or current control of the ribbons, or both. Listening to ayon, 211, and parasound, I realized that while ayon had better tone, the para opened the speaker up even though tone was a bit crude. That bridged plinius also gave me a great ribbon linearity, vocals just soared. I am not interested in listening to the valve. The ribbon tone is far greater than the valve tone. It needs to be controlled, and driven well. All engineers I spoke to who know Apogees, say the backward and forward motion of the ribbons creates impedance swings irrespective of published impedance. Well whatever the reason, I am going the Henk route. He puts in 2kw with 30 solar panels partly contributing to his power supply, and I won't be doing that, but a powerful amp is doable

 

[spiritofmusic]

Well Ked, I admit to not listening to acoustic/classical at Justin, so I'll bow to try greater experience there
However I did listen to Miles Davis "Freedom Jazz Dance" off "Miles Smiles", a track I know backwards
I've never heard it be portrayed so convincingly, as much from the driving sixteenth note snare/ride pattern as from the propulsive bass, then dropping right down into achingly expressive suspended minor chord piano strikes
All this on those 211s

 

[bonzo75]

Hey Ked, settling down is not a negative
Maybe chat to yr GF and see what she thinks about continually playing the field LOL
Some of us are into pride of ownership, sympatico w designer ethos, bling factor, getting to know a system

Regarding commitment, Marc, Hifi seems to be more of a case of marry in 3months after meeting and then divorce when you can’t stand the way the other person’s food catches between his/her teeth. In the process, lose half your savings and future income. Not interested in doing that.

And sleeping around is good. Men like spreading their seed around, probably why most audiophiles are men. This is an hobby of orgies.

Ps: I do get there are objectives to owning gear, like you said, which is why we should look at why one makes a purchase decision. Now, if you, for example, want the costliest speaker for pride of ownership, that's fine, but to claim it sounds the best is then wrong. One should just accept why one is buying it, not defend it for another objective. Justin, for example, is a minimalist. Like Henk, the FR guy in frankfurt, and Grant, their all out assault is more on the speakers alone. All of them are more apogeephiles than audiophiles, if you compare to, say, a Wilson/Magico owner. But ideal approach is to marry the two

 

[spiritofmusic]

What is it w Henk and glass?
All those whiskey bottles, and now these solar panels? LOL
You gotta love the TRULY crazy guys in this hobby

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, some of us fall in love at first sight
Some of us have an arranged marriage
Some of us take a punt
Some of us serial date
Some of us are happy spouses, but feel the need to get our wives under the cosmetic surgeon's scalpel
Some of us are Zsa Zsa Gabor and need to keep marrying
Yr GF must be honoured you settled on her ahead of other choices before settling on which Apogee you're going to buy LOL

 

[bonzo75]

Ked, some of us fall in love at first sight
Some of us have an arranged marriage
Some of us take a punt
Some of us serial date
Some of us are happy spouses, but feel the need to get our wives under the cosmetic surgeon's scalpel
Some of us are Zsa Zsa Gabor and need to keep marrying
Yr GF must be honoured you settled on her ahead of other choices before settling on which Apogee you're going to buy LOL

True. But if you end up marrying Sam Fox, you should be clear you are doing it for the boobs and not discuss among math pupils how your wife solves integration. Audio seems to be a case of buying for one reason and then defending for another, which causes problems. It is all ok if I want the big speaker distributed by the big dealer on Oxford Street, well-serviced. But then I shouldn’t be claiming I did so because the sonics were better than a bespoke speaker from Holand or Germany which I have not heard

ps: I did serial date before settling down on her. Ticking off for me is a personality trait. Extends to restaurants as well.

 

[853guy]

ps: I did serial date before settling down on her. Ticking off for me is a personality trait. Extends to restaurants as well.

Yes, it's definitely your personality that ticks me off.

Bah-dum-poooosh...!

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week. No, no, please, sit down, thank you, thank you.

853guy

 

[KeithR]

Ked's advice is the logical one
If I love 'em and feel I can't live w'out 'em, buy 'em
And make my deal w the Devil and go SS
And in time forget the true love that is SETs

I agree with Ked - if the speaker is now your reference, I would just assume going in that you will ultimately need SS. There are plenty of good SS alternatives.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, it's definitely your personality that ticks me off.

Bah-dum-poooosh...!

Thank you, thank you, I'll be here all week. No, no, please, sit down, thank you, thank you.

853guy

Lol

 

[853guy]

Lol

I'm glad if anyone got that, it was you.

853guy

P.S. For those whose genetics were not directly derived from British stock, it's commonly accepted among males to disguise any platonic affection for one another in the socio-cultural form of making fun of one-another. Having not met Bonzo in person, I accept I run the risk of misinterpretation, but was quietly confident our shared heritage would mean the joke was taken in the spirit of good-natured ribbing* it was intended. Of course, having to explain the joke immediately disqualifies me from being naturally funny, but I fully accept that. Ask my wife.

*No, that's not British slang for anything. Pfff.

 

[KeithR]

Also, Marc - you need to post up photos of your room. It is *very* difficult to help without them.

 

[bonzo75]

I'm glad if anyone got that, it was you.

853guy

P.S. For those whose genetics were not directly derived from British stock, it's commonly accepted among males to disguise any platonic affection for one another in the socio-cultural form of making fun of one-another. Having not met Bonzo in person, I accept I run the risk of misinterpretation, but was quietly confident our shared heritage would mean the joke was taken in the spirit of good-natured ribbing* it was intended. Of course, having to explain the joke immediately disqualifies me from being naturally funny, but I fully accept that. Ask my wife.

*No, that's not British slang for anything. Pfff.

One guy went on a mono cycle, and noted down comments he received from various people. Of the 500 comments he received, he found that 95% of the males had made some “snide” comment, while the women had given a how cute, how impressive kind of stuff. Unfortunately he interpreted that as men are snide. When I posted the comment, it was only the Indians who first realized that the men were not being snide, they were actually trying to bond

 

[853guy]

One guy went on a mono cycle, and noted down comments he received from various people. Of the 500 comments he received, he found that 95% of the males had made some “snide” comment, while the women had given a how cute, how impressive kind of stuff. Unfortunately he interpreted that as men are snide. When I posted the comment, it was only the Indians who first realized that the men were not being snide, they were actually trying to bond

Interesting.

853guy

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ha ha!
I'm getting Ked more and more
Unfortunately that's not good for my mental health
This is fun
So Ked, the more you push and push, the more you label and sub label, the more you drop barbed comments, the more you demo and try to inform us poor ignorant saps of the mistakes we're making, the more we're meant to believe you're trying to bond w us? This is commonly known as "having yr cake and eating it"
Deride certain people's choices and motivations
If they take it badly, you can always say you were trying to be chummy and informative
Or that you think they're totally losing it
All at the same time
Reminds me of the washed-up British DJ Pat Sharpe who went on the beyond-crappy UK reality show "I'm A Celebrity, Get Me Out Of Here"
He proceeded to slag off everyone's appearance, intelligence, "talents"
When he was voted off for being an anti social prick, he cried "foul", and said he was amazed his comments were so poorly received
He claimed being brutally frank would endear him, and people would view the blanket criticism as a friendly altruistic act
I'm afraid he had misled himself...

 

[bonzo75]

Marc, I am not slagging off your appearance...

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I think I've seen this movie.

maybe we should have a "Bloke-Mate-Pint-Pub" forum for you UK guys to hang out in when you get into this mode. entertaining but useless for much.

 

[bonzo75]

Btw, Marc, since you brought in my girlfriend, here’s one…
“Did you have a girlfriend?
Audiophile: “I did”
What happened, he asked
Audiophile: “She Ransomware"