A question about room demands on speakers

[Zero000]

Well Ked, I admit to not listening to acoustic/classical at Justin, so I'll bow to try greater experience there
However I did listen to Miles Davis "Freedom Jazz Dance" off "Miles Smiles", a track I know backwards
I've never heard it be portrayed so convincingly, as much from the driving sixteenth note snare/ride pattern as from the propulsive bass, then dropping right down into achingly expressive suspended minor chord piano strikes
All this on those 211s

With speakers with **** midrange. Fancy that.

You should listen to Ked because he knows your opinion is wrong. You just haven't realised what you were listening to was ****, that the Analysis speakers you heard earlier were in fact better, and you are mistaken, and that you were accompanied in your session by a rank amateur non-audiophile.

I'm just waiting for him to send me the next amp I can listen to for 3 months while he loses £3K in the process. When that shuts down, despite its 22836 KW rating he'll need for his Scinnies, we'll know he is right and very wise.

And when the next pair of foreign Apogees arrives in the country from restorers that obviously are way better than Jon, but turn out to sound ****, we'll know he is right again.

Just sayin', like

 

[bonzo75]

I am not saying what Marc heard on analysis is wrong. He gave it a fair try and he and I do have differant music tastes. But to comment on what he had heard is wrong. FYI, I had told him to check both with the caveat that apogee can do rock and analysis cannot. As for the Ayon, reason I bought it was that I was unable to compare it and my urge to find out what I don't know is great, while you two seem well ensconced in what you do know

 

[spiritofmusic]

Justin, it takes some time, but I'm happy to tease out Ked's thinking process
It's not mine and it's not yrs, and I'm happy in my mindset and ways of seeing and hearing thru things
So for me I feel I got as many data points from a poor Divas demo as I did a good Duettas one
For me, since I so love my room and how my NATs/Zus sound in it, my dilemma w Apogees is as it has always been
Whether to stick as is, knowing I have a sound I've spent big in and sweated the details on, in an environment that brings out the best in it, versus a dramatically radical left field choice which is so compelling, but has a whole lot more traps to getting it wrong

 

[bonzo75]

Justin, it takes some time, but I'm happy to tease out Ked's thinking process
It's not mine and it's not yrs, and I'm happy in my mindset and ways of seeing and hearing thru things
So for me I feel I got as many data points from a poor Divas demo as I did a good Duettas one
For me, since I so love my room and how my NATs/Zus sound in it, my dilemma w Apogees is as it has always been
Whether to stick as is, knowing I have a sound I've spent big in and sweated the details on, in an environment that brings out the best in it, versus a dramatically radical left field choice which is so compelling, but has a whole lot more traps to getting it wrong

Not sure why you can get it wrong. You like it on 211s, you have the NATs, so worst case for you two SS demos?

 

[Zero000]

TBH what was I saying before you came round Marc? Stay away from Apogees, they aren't good for your mental health!

And now I have made your dilemma worse, LOL.

I'm on the listening room laptop now, and just about to re-connect the Accuphase M-60s as I have forgotten what SS sounds like. I know I am in for a very different ride... a different dimension... a different universe... hell, I'll be just Interstella in just a few moments

 

[Zero000]

Not sure why you can get it wrong. You like it on 211s, you have the NATs, so worst case for you two SS demos?

Get both. I keep saying it. Get both. Let me send you the Apart Marc, then get something SS that is cool.

You'll listen to it for a few weeks or months, then just decide it tries too hard to control the panels, sounds sterile, has no emotion, can't really speak to you on an emotional level, doesn't sound anything like the band you heard at the last gig you went to, and you'll know it is time for the antidote.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Justin, tbh I'm so past SS amps
Back in the day when I was trying out lots of amps ie mid 00s, running lowish efficiency Pro Ac Futures 2 spkrs w OB mids and ribbon tweeters, I ran thru Halcro, Mark Levinson, Krell, Naim, Ayre, Bladelius to name but a few
Only the Hovland Radia SS worked for me, and that was esp because of the stellar synergy w the Hovland tubed HP200 preamp
This was a super gentle intro to the world of tubed sound
Full on w Audion 845s in 2013 and NATs 211s in 2015
And I haven't ever looked back to SS

 

[BMCG]

I think I've seen this movie.

maybe we should have a "Bloke-Mate-Pint-Pub" forum for you UK guys to hang out in when you get into this mode. entertaining but useless for much.

Pints with audiophile system critique.......think i'd want popcorn.

 

[Zero000]

That said these M-60s aren't sounding too bad. Not too bad at all. By god do they have some control. You'd almost believe they are capable Apogee drivers.

Am I taking the **** here?

Of course I am. There is no definitive solution valve or solid state, expensive or cheap.

 

[Argonaut]

11) Still talking about it this time next year.
12) Kick of yet another Naval Gazing introspective thread.

Dear God.......Make it stop.

 

[Zero000]

C'mon next decade.

Let's talk about Neoliths instead.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ooh, that was uncalled for!
I'm going to stick w my room as is
I didn't go ambitious on size and budget (hoping to be a Mini Me version of Mike Lavigne LOL), to proceed to split it into smaller spaces
The space wks superbly w my 211s and Zus, but critically 300W Class D supplementing <40Hz
And if I go Duettas (and i TRULY am smitten and tempted), I will have to resolve to be open minded and consider Class A SS)
Ked has already been kind enough to suggest some ideas to me

 

[the sound of Tao]

Marc, after your bout of panel fever you could now be weak enough to contract second system syndrome. Some horns upstairs and a lil ribbon action in the smaller guest bedroom. Surely your gf will understand... it's an illness and not a madness.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Tao, you do realise if I do that, my GF will not be able to help herself, and she'll be up on a charge of homicide on grounds of diminished responsibility/temporary insanity
I have pined for horns for such a long time
Heard Trios and loved their bigger than life joyousness (tinged w the realisation they're not for me)
Cessaro Liszts and their hairs up on back of neck response (again aware of shortfalls)
Duos at Blue58 which I truly have love and respect for
And the Denman Exponential Horn which remains a beyond cosmic out of body experience
But an evening with the Duettas has cured me of this in one stroke
The edge of seat propulsion, wall of extended and uber agile bass, and seeming cohesiveness, puts all the commercial horns I've heard to the sword
So Zus OR Duettas it is
No space for that second system
The alternate room is being used for the new clinic I'm aiming to run from home

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, just read yr interesting review of those Luxman m800u power amps, on the YG Haileys
Correct me if I'm wrong, but did you suggest they were a tad light in the bass and bridging w two of them ideal?
Surely this would be de rigeur w the Duettas as these must be even harder to drive than the YGs?

 

[sbo6]

Wasn't this thread about room demands on speakers for the OP? Not washer women central...

 

[Barry2013]

Barry, I've never yet heard a setup placed on the long wall that sounded totally convincing IMHO
Even at yrs it would be great to sit some way further back from yr YGs
But yr idea is food for thought
Btw, I'm a bit wowed by my long space
It really locks well w my Zus/NATs
And this is a major reason why I'm skeptical about dividing it up
And I love the ability to hit the skins behind my setup when the mood takes me

Thanks Marc
Yes I agree that being a bit further back from YGs could be beneficial but in my 21x12 room the present siting is the optimum. and fully endorsed by our mutual friend Fraser. In an earlier evolution of the system I did try firing my then speakers down the room bit it did not work as well. You have a wider room to work with even allowing for the eaves.
It strikes me that staying with one room means there is a very big space to drive even allowing for high sensitivity speakers and a big area for the sound to travel and bounce around. It also seems to me that the sound quality benefits are at the very least debatable. If there are no benefits to sound quality then there is a helluva lot of space wasted up in your loft, Dividing the room should not be very costly and the addition of a separate home cinema room seems to me to be a real plus. Nor would I expect the sound quality to be worse in smaller audio system room.
My two pennyworth FWIW and.of course, it really is a decision for you.

 

[spiritofmusic]

sbo6, Ked and I aren't winning any beauty pageants, that's for sure
Washer women is being kind to us

 

[spiritofmusic]

Barry, I could split the space
But if I did, it would still make sense to keep the Apogees on the fixed 18' wide wall
I'm wary to split it because I don't want to approximate to a square
If I go more 25x18, the smaller space won't work for home cinema
And I really want to bring out my 13 yr old self w my drum kit in tow
So, the big space is going to stay
But yr suggestion is a logical one and I'll keep options open

 

[spiritofmusic]

Just spoken w Grant who v successfully runs Duettas on tubes
He is urging me to start w Duettas no more than 5' from front walls and to sit no more than 10' from them
And to ignore space behind me for the time being
No rush on any of this, decision to go Duettas and receipt of potential
spkrs some 12-18 months away
But more info to base a decision on