ack's system - end of round 1

ack

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What is clear is that Magico produces and must sell many pairs of speakers. One might not appreciate that by simply reading the posts here on WBF. I suspect most Magico customers never spend time on audio forums.

More than that, people conveniently forget Magico's ads on the S5II touting some 20% reduction in distortion with that midrange enclosure. So at the end of the day, people believe what they want to believe, and I just don't give a damn.
 

ack

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Since this is your system thread, it might be an appropriate place to discuss this. Can you talk a bit more about this aspect of panel speakers? I had thought they behave like dipole designs and the back wave reflection is best handled by judicious placement in a conventional room with solid walls and boundaries. Controlling this back wave or reflection relative to the direct sound is what makes or breaks the perceived quality of the sound at the listening seat. I thought the reflection adds to a sense of space and can reinforce certain frequencies for a more balanced, solid sound. Is this completely wrong? Reading your comment about absorption or attenuation of this back wave is not what I suspected at all. Just curious. I have only heard panel speakers a few times and surely do not have your experience with the design.

Well, they are dipoles, but the back wave is out of phase, so it can create problems, therefore it needs to be managed. In this room, the effect of reflecting the back wave - when I flipped the speakers and sofa - was quite noticeable and disturbing, very unnatural sounding; imaging was severely affected as well.
 

cannata

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Jan 30, 2014
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I suspect most Magico customers never spend time on audio forums.

Hard to blame them, this forum is a toxic ground for Magico owners. Never mind the opinions, but some comments are even devised to make the brand look bad (No midrange enclosure, etc). Why is that?
 

bonzo75

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I suspect most Magico customers never spend time on audio forums.

I suspect they don't spend much time getting exposures to panels and horns as well lol
 

PeterA

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I suspect they don't spend much time getting exposures to panels and horns as well lol

Kedar, you keep bringing this up about the folks in Boston, and you are free to laugh all you want. I am the first to admit that my exposure to panels and horns is limited. I have certainly heard them at shows and at homes, but I have more exposure and experience with cone speakers. Given my experience, room and budget, I have made my choices.

I would also like to hear more live music, too. The problem is that there is only so much time in the day and audio is only one of four equally important hobbies to me. I enjoy reading your many reports on horns and panels, though you seem to like the cone speakers of Mike L more than some of the horn and panel speakers you have heard. There are many flavors of ice cream. I happen to like vanilla.
 

ack

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Hard to blame them, this forum is a toxic ground for Magico owners. Never mind the opinions, but some comments are even devised to make the brand look bad (No midrange enclosure, etc). Why is that?

Let me put an end to this with some real data. Here's Myles Astor in his S5II review https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/magico-s5-mk-2-loudspeakers/

And to round things out, Alon placed the new nanographene driver in that specially designed internal midrange enclosure originally developed for the S3 Mk. 1 speakers.

The S5Mk1 was introduced in 2011 (https://magico.net/product/s5.php); the S3Mk1 was introduced in 2013 (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/announcing-the-magico-s3/). Therefore, the S5Mk1 simply did not have that midrange enclosure. Here's the relevant language from the S3Mk1 introduction:

the S3 is uses an acoustic suspension enclosure, one whose further refinements include a new uniquely designed sub-enclosure for its midrange.

Then, here's Myles again:

For others, here's The Readers Digest version of what's new and improved in the Magico S5 Mk. 2 beginning with the drivers. The latest Mk. 2 version includes a new 1-inch diamond coated Be tweeter (MG7) with long throw voice coil. This new driver has lower distortion and integrates better with the midrange than its older sibling. Next, a new 6-inch multi-wall carbon and nanographene (MAG6004RTC) driver is used for the midrange. This new driver is 30% lighter and 300% stiffer than the transducer used in the Mk. 1 version. In addition, a mid-sub enclosure made of proprietary polymeric material acoustically optimize the midrange driver's operating environment. Finally, the lower frequencies are handled by a totally new 10-inch Al bass driver. Among the changes are a new motor system with twice the excursion of the previous model (15 vs 7 mm), more powerful magnets and nanographene dust caps.

Stereophile discusses the same at https://www.stereophile.com/content/magico-s5-mkii-loudspeaker

Eventually, as I said earlier, some late S5Mk1's did inherit the enclosure, shortly before the S5MkII introduction. These guys sometimes just rush to market and make some really bad decisions. THEY are the ones who sometimes don't know how to make a proper multi-way speakers. Understood?
 
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Al M.

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Hard to blame them, this forum is a toxic ground for Magico owners. Never mind the opinions, but some comments are even devised to make the brand look bad (No midrange enclosure, etc). Why is that?

Where do you get that odd idea from, that this forum is toxic ground for Magico owners? There have been many positive posts about Ian's system with his M Project speakers, and many positive comments on Peter's system thread when he got his Q3s. I love both speakers, BTW. And there have been many other positive threads/posts on Magico as well.

You need to lighten up a bit and grow a thicker skin, my friend.
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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A couple of years back at one of the Newport shows, I had a long and informative conversation with AW. At the time, I was considering Magico's for a small room...and so asked him about the Q1's. The conversation went on to the differences that he felt were between the Q series and the S series. Alon told me that the Q series were for more 'accuracy' inclined listeners, while the S series were designed with the more 'casual' listener in mind. He then went on to say that he expected more people to actually enjoy the S series than the Q series and that the S series had a 'looser' bass response, resulting in the 'impression' that the S series was fuller sounding; although he empathized that the Q series was the more accurate speaker design.
What he didn't mention was the fact that every Magico speaker has its adherents...and some of them come on forums and act like total besotted fanboys, LOL.:rolleyes:
 

cannata

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Jan 30, 2014
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Let me put an end to this with some real data. Here's Myles Astor in his S5II review https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/magico-s5-mk-2-loudspeakers/



The S5Mk1 was introduced in 2011 (https://magico.net/product/s5.php); the S3Mk1 was introduced in 2013 (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/announcing-the-magico-s3/). Therefore, the S5Mk1 simply did not have that midrange enclosure. Here's the relevant language from the S3Mk1 introduction:



Then, here's Myles again:



Stereophile discusses the same at https://www.stereophile.com/content/magico-s5-mkii-loudspeaker

Eventually, as I said earlier, some late S5Mk1's did inherit the enclosure, shortly before the S5MkII introduction. These guys sometimes just rush to market and make some really bad decisions. THEY are the ones who sometimes don't know how to make a proper multi-way speakers. Understood?

I think that you are confusing yourself.
Are you now saying “that” midrange enclosure? Before it was “a” midrange enclosure or is it still?
So to make it clear, all multi-way loudspeakers should have a dedicated midrange enclosure. The original S5, of course, had a dedicated midrange enclosure, it would not work otherwise (it was made of aluminum). The new Mk2s have a different, unique in shape and material, midrange enclosure. That is what all the marketing fluff was about. If you imply in any way that Magico (or any other legit loudspeaker company) will release ‘in a hurry’ a multi-way without a dedicated midrange enclosure, you clearly don’t understand how a multi-way set up works.
 

cannata

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Where do you get that odd idea from, that this forum is toxic ground for Magico owners? There have been many positive posts about Ian's system with his M Project speakers, and many positive comments on Peter's system thread when he got his Q3s. I love both speakers, BTW. And there have been many other positive threads/posts on Magico as well.

You need to lighten up a bit and grow a thicker skin, my friend.

That is the point I was trying to make, you like the Magicos you hear in your homes (or friends home), but not at a dealer. I was not expecting ack to tell me that something is seriously wrong with my speakers. You guys are masters of projections and passive-aggressive :(
 

ack

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Cannata, you bore me to death. One again, there are a plethora of positive comments and threads about the local Magico dealer demos, and equally as many about home systems. You just want to believe what you want to believe, and this is just boring and noise. I suggest you go ahead and write up your own M3s and educate the rest of us
 

cannata

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Cannata, you bore me to death. One again, there are a plethora of positive comments and threads about the local Magico dealer demos, and equally as many about home systems. You just want to believe what you want to believe, and this is just boring and noise. I suggest you go ahead and write up your own M3s and educate the rest of us

Unfortunately, there is no educating you, you know it all, no wounder you are bored.
 

PeterA

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Cannata, you can educate me. I always assumed that the Q series and the first S 5 had aluminum compartments that isolated the midrange from the woofers in the cabinets, which is what you describe as a midrange enclosure. Is that right? The S3 had the first new polymer rounded midrange enclosure which improved the sound. However, I'm confused about all loudspeakers requiring a mid range enclosure. You must be specifically talking about cone speakers, but what about boxless speakers in which the drivers are mounted to an open baffle? There are not many such designs, but I have seen a few, and they do not appear to have dedicated enclosures for their midrange drivers. Could you explain this a bit?

Also, I used to have Eggleston Rosa speakers. They had transmission line loaded midranges. For this to work, I don't think those drivers were enclosed in the traditional sense, but I really don't know. Thanks.
 

Al M.

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That is the point I was trying to make, you like the Magicos you hear in your homes (or friends home), but not at a dealer. I was not expecting ack to tell me that something is seriously wrong with my speakers. You guys are masters of projections and passive-aggressive :(

Haha, you really need to loosen up. How many times has my Yggdrasil DAC been criticized on this forum! After sufficiently defending it where appropriate, do I complain beyond that? No, I laugh about most of the criticism! After all, I know what I'm hearing in my system.

If someone doesn't like your speakers, so what? You really need to grow a thicker skin.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Hard to blame them, this forum is a toxic ground for Magico owners. Never mind the opinions, but some comments are even devised to make the brand look bad (No midrange enclosure, etc). Why is that?

No it is not - we have many members who are happy and friendly owners of Magico speakers and have had many excellent threads on them. Can I suggest you create your own thread on your system to have a nice talk on Magico speakers? This is a thread on ACK system.

BTW, the S5 enclosure subject was very debated and settled in agreement in WBF long ago, perhaps people do not remember it any more, it would be nice to elucidate people there.
 

cannata

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Jan 30, 2014
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Cannata, you can educate me. I always assumed that the Q series and the first S 5 had aluminum compartments that isolated the midrange from the woofers in the cabinets, which is what you describe as a midrange enclosure. Is that right? The S3 had the first new polymer rounded midrange enclosure which improved the sound. However, I'm confused about all loudspeakers requiring a mid range enclosure. You must be specifically talking about cone speakers, but what about boxless speakers in which the drivers are mounted to an open baffle? There are not many such designs, but I have seen a few, and they do not appear to have dedicated enclosures for their midrange drivers. Could you explain this a bit?

Also, I used to have Eggleston Rosa speakers. They had transmission line loaded midranges. For this to work, I don't think those drivers were enclosed in the traditional sense, but I really don't know. Thanks.

You are right, there are exceptions, depending on the type of speaker involved.
Any acoustic suspension (Magico), or a ported multi-way will have a dedicated midrange enclosure. Any open baffle (boxless) design are that; boxless, so that is no box at all. The principle is simple, you can’t have the midrange and bass drivers occupying the same restricted volume. The much larger excursion of the bass in to that shared volume will severely interfere and most likely destroy the midrange, due to the excessive pressure from the bass back wave. It is not a problem in an open baffle design, nothing is restricting the volume behind the drivers.
 
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audioquattr

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Let me put an end to this with some real data. Here's Myles Astor in his S5II review https://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/magico-s5-mk-2-loudspeakers/



The S5Mk1 was introduced in 2011 (https://magico.net/product/s5.php); the S3Mk1 was introduced in 2013 (http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/announcing-the-magico-s3/). Therefore, the S5Mk1 simply did not have that midrange enclosure. Here's the relevant language from the S3Mk1 introduction:



Then, here's Myles again:



Stereophile discusses the same at https://www.stereophile.com/content/magico-s5-mkii-loudspeaker

Eventually, as I said earlier, some late S5Mk1's did inherit the enclosure, shortly before the S5MkII introduction. These guys sometimes just rush to market and make some really bad decisions. THEY are the ones who sometimes don't know how to make a proper multi-way speakers. Understood?

^Good example for : “ people believe what they want to believe, and I just don't give a damn.”
 

cannata

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2014
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BTW, the S5 enclosure subject was very debated and settled in agreement in WBF long ago, perhaps people do not remember it any more, it would be nice to elucidate people there.

Apparently it was not settled, ack mind can’t be swayed.
Although I am pretty sure he knows he is wrong, he just can't bring himself to admit that. Ego, is a strange thing...
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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Apparently it was not settled, ack mind can’t be swayed.
Although I am pretty sure he knows he is wrong, he just can't bring himself to admit that. Ego, is a strange thing...

No one to date has been able to bring forth any pictures of any sort of midrange enclosure in the S5Mk1. This is why I don't give a damn about you, audioquattr and others like you. Show me the data, and then we can discuss again.
 

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