Acoustical Sounds Axiom tonearm

[scot]

Hi All

I’m looking at buying a new tonearm and I want something really nice. The front runners are the Kuzma 4 point, Durand Tosca, Schröder CB, LT, Reference? Acoustical Systems Axiom, Graham Elite to name just a few. My biggest concern is the lack of info or reviews on the internet for some of these arms. I know there are a few guys on this site that really like the Durand Tosca. The most frustrating arm is the Acoustical Systems Axiom, although it’s been around for years and it’s one of the more expensive arms (under $22,000.00) I cannot fing one professional review, which I find odd. Even the discussions on this website talks about the build quality and brilliant design and superior parts yet very little in the way of sound quality. Here is my problem, no one talks about the sound quality or how it compares with other top arms. When you read about the various Schröder arms the main attributes that are always mentioned are how natural they sound with accurate, beautiful tonal color. With regard to the Kuzma 4 points, it’s almost impossible to find a bad word and most reviewers and owners seem to agree, it’s arguably one of the best arms you can buy regardless of price (sans the SAT arms). So, can anyone shed some light on the Axioms sound quality specifically? Thank you.

Scot

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Hi All

I’m looking at buying a new tonearm and I want something really nice. The front runners are the Kuzma 4 point, Durand Tosca, Schröder CB, LT, Reference? Acoustical Systems Axiom, Graham Elite to name just a few. My biggest concern is the lack of info or reviews on the internet for some of these arms. I know there are a few guys on this site that really like the Durand Tosca. The most frustrating arm is the Acoustical Systems Axiom, although it’s been around for years and it’s one of the more expensive arms (under $22,000.00) I cannot fing one professional review, which I find odd. Even the discussions on this website talks about the build quality and brilliant design and superior parts yet very little in the way of sound quality. Here is my problem, no one talks about the sound quality or how it compares with other top arms. When you read about the various Schröder arms the main attributes that are always mentioned are how natural they sound with accurate, beautiful tonal color. With regard to the Kuzma 4 points, it’s almost impossible to find a bad word and most reviewers and owners seem to agree, it’s arguably one of the best arms you can buy regardless of price (sans the SAT arms). So, can anyone shed some light on the Axioms sound quality specifically? Thank you.

Scot

The only person I know who has all those arms is Mik - 108CY on this forum.

 

[shakti]

I do use the Axiom Tonearm and had various Kuzma 4 Point.

Do you know this review?

https://rutherfordaudio.com/product-reviews/Acoustical-Systems-Axiom.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1pTF9RYtdgM8UaTvIx5l92etqObkf5lSV0qjTAfG89_au7dtKghSj21NU

I like, that the Axiom can be fine tuned in a very precise way, which will bring the best out of a cartridge with ease.

 

[Lagonda]

The only person I know who has all those arms is Mik - 108CY on this forum.

And he will sell you any of them in a pinch !

 

[PeterA]

Member Tango had both the Axiom and the SAT.

 

[ddk]

Hi All

I’m looking at buying a new tonearm and I want something really nice. The front runners are the Kuzma 4 point, Durand Tosca, Schröder CB, LT, Reference? Acoustical Systems Axiom, Graham Elite to name just a few. My biggest concern is the lack of info or reviews on the internet for some of these arms. I know there are a few guys on this site that really like the Durand Tosca. The most frustrating arm is the Acoustical Systems Axiom, although it’s been around for years and it’s one of the more expensive arms (under $22,000.00) I cannot fing one professional review, which I find odd. Even the discussions on this website talks about the build quality and brilliant design and superior parts yet very little in the way of sound quality. Here is my problem, no one talks about the sound quality or how it compares with other top arms. When you read about the various Schröder arms the main attributes that are always mentioned are how natural they sound with accurate, beautiful tonal color. With regard to the Kuzma 4 points, it’s almost impossible to find a bad word and most reviewers and owners seem to agree, it’s arguably one of the best arms you can buy regardless of price (sans the SAT arms). So, can anyone shed some light on the Axioms sound quality specifically? Thank you.

Scot

I have set up several of them on our turntables and some other high end ones but they didn’t last long when compared to a 3012-R, actually nothing IME stands up to the SME. Short version their midrange forward, lightish in bass and with a clear silver wire signature. Disclosure, I dislike silver anywhere in the audio chain and might be more critical of it that some. YMMV a little depending on accuracy of your setup and table but that’s how they sound.

david

 

[Site7000]

I do use the Axiom Tonearm and had various Kuzma 4 Point.

Do you know this review?

https://rutherfordaudio.com/product-reviews/Acoustical-Systems-Axiom.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1pTF9RYtdgM8UaTvIx5l92etqObkf5lSV0qjTAfG89_au7dtKghSj21NU

I like, that the Axiom can be fine tuned in a very precise way, which will bring the best out of a cartridge with ease.

Wow, quite an educated and enthusiastic review!

 

[CKKeung]

I am not a LP audiophile but witnessed a shootout between an Axiom and a DaVinci Lab Virtu in a frd"s system.

He owns a DaVinci Gabriel turntable with two tonearm towers. He also got two identical Lyra Olympos SL cartridges.
Therefore the comparison was fair with no confounding factors.

The prices of both tonearms were similar then (the Axiom was not the current more expensive Anniversary model).

The result was easy :
The Virtu won by a wide margin, in term of musicality.
Much more enjoyable than the Axiom which got traits descipted accurately by DDK on the earlier post of this thread.

 

[ShawnZH]

I used to own an Axiom and sold it. Now I own a few Kuzma 4P in 11 inches and 9 inches. Among the 2 (Axiom and 4P), I suggest that you go for 4P with excellent performance, precise and handy adjustments (VTA, VTF, bias, Azimuth) and versatility to match with carts of varioius weight, inter-changeable head shell. The only draw-back of 4P is that the building quality is not that "sexy". It is quite plain and industrial look. I adore this arm a lot.

The Axiom I had was an old version. Build quality looks great, but in terms of adjustments, it was not as precise and smooth as 4P, a different league. I'm not sure if the newer version has improved all those. Though the Aquilar occurs to me a more reasonable and simplified design. I didn't have the chance to try it.

The grudge to the Axiom is also coming from the famous protractor from the same brand. I own 1, while 2 of my friends own theirs. One day, we had the chance to bring the 3 protractors together, align and match them and we found the 3 vary slightly in their scales by a few mm. For a vinyl protractor, it is unacceptable to me.

 

[bazelio]

Variations of a few mm? That's severely inaccurate. This is a very popular (and expensive) protractor. I use one myself. Thankfully, though, I can verify with Analog Magik that my cart alignment is in fact as accurate as possible. I have found that sighted adjustments through the use of a protractor only (any protractor) are always flawed to some degree.

 

[shakti]

I used to own an Axiom and sold it. Now I own a few Kuzma 4P in 11 inches and 9 inches. Among the 2 (Axiom and 4P), I suggest that you go for 4P with excellent performance, precise and handy adjustments (VTA, VTF, bias, Azimuth) and versatility to match with carts of varioius weight, inter-changeable head shell. The only draw-back of 4P is that the building quality is not that "sexy". It is quite plain and industrial look. I adore this arm a lot.

Interesting obversation, I had the 4P 11 " side by side to a 2020 Axiom and the differences were quite huge, the Axiom plays in a much higher league. I would even prefer my Ikeda 407 CR over the Kuzma 4P 11". Personally I like the 9" Kuzma 4P more than the 11", more dynamic and lively.
But interesting to read, that personal taste and individual set ups can make such a difference in component judgement.

 

[mtemur]

Thankfully, though, I can verify with Analog Magik that my cart alignment is in fact as accurate as possible. I have found that sighted adjustments through the use of a protractor only (any protractor) are always flawed to some degree.

unfortunately Analogmagik hardly tells derivations from geometry. for example you use Baerwald but accidentally end up in between Baerwald and Loefgren there won't be an important difference in Analogmagik's distortion numbers compared to perfect Baerwald alignment. I tried it a couple of times and concluded that I need to double check geometry after setting up with Analogmagik. that's why a proper protractor is a must when using Analogmagik.

 

[bazelio]

unfortunately Analogmagik hardly tells derivations from geometry. for example you use Baerwald but accidentally end up in between Baerwald and Loefgren there won't be an important difference in Analogmagik's distortion numbers compared to perfect Baerwald alignment. I tried it a couple of times and concluded that I need to double check geometry after setting up with Analogmagik. that's why a proper protractor is a must when using Analogmagik.

Yes AM doesn't replace a protractor. It can't. It is very effective at dialing in specific alignment parameters. When we want to move one cart from arm to arm to arm, then AM is the right tool to help ensure you are in fact listening differences in arms rather than the difference in cart alignments. I also recheck with a protractor while making AM adjustments to be sure I'm still hitting the null points.

 

[mtemur]

I’m a big fan of AM and using it constantly. I can not think of installing a cartridge without it

 

[ShawnZH]

Interesting obversation, I had the 4P 11 " side by side to a 2020 Axiom and the differences were quite huge, the Axiom plays in a much higher league. I would even prefer my Ikeda 407 CR over the Kuzma 4P 11". Personally I like the 9" Kuzma 4P more than the 11", more dynamic and lively.
But interesting to read, that personal taste and individual set ups can make such a difference in component judgement.

Thanks for the comments. The different opinions may come from the different versions of AXIOM we own. It might also be personal taste or overall setup. But I agree with you that 9 inch 4P sounds dynamic and lively. When I mount my Lyra Atlas Lambda onto it, I found it perform better than the 11 inch. I took it as a better match of effective mass and compliance, but it might also be the design and simplicity of the 9 inch.

 

[scot]

Hi everybody

Please forgive my late reply to my own thread. I just yesterday got out of a rehab facility after hip replacement surgery.

The very first thing I did, which you all may enjoy hearing and may also find funny is, and I’m not making this up, I went straight into my listening room, grabbed a couple favorite cd’s (now before you all chastise me for using the “C” word” I will explain) and a cup of my favorite Nespresso coffee, I listened for several hours to some good music and I felt as though I now know what it might be like in heaven!

First of all, thank you all for your thoughts and opinions in response to my thread. They are all greatly appreciated.

The reason I grabbed cd’s is because for the last several years, I have had very bad arthritis in both hips which can be quite painful. I to am now the proud owner of some titanium, unfortunately my titanium, unlike some of you guys, is not located in my tonearm(s). My titanium is located in both of my hips. You see, before my first hip replacement back in 2014 and now again in 2021, getting up & down every 25 minutes did’t sound (pun intended) very appealing.

Now that I have two good hips and no more pain, I no longer have that as an excuse. I plan on getting back into analog again. For me, personally, I still feel (other than reel to reel, and talk about a pain) that lp’s offer the best sound quality when compared to any othe sources. So, I plan on buying, in the very near future, a new turntable, tonearm, cartridge, phono preamp/step up transformer and a Critical mass systems rack to put it all on. So cd’s, for now and the last five years have been all I’ve been listening to. That is soon about to change.

I look at some of your systems and some of you guys have more money invested in your systems than my entire house is worth, god bless all of you! Unfortunately my entire budget for everything I have listed is $40,000.00! Not so easy to get something as good as I would like with that kind of budget. I think I’m in the wrong business! Now my saving grace is I’m very fortunate to be friends with many people in the industry who either work for or own a high fi store or a distributor, which makes that budget almost worth double. That helps a lot. As all of you I’m sure are aware, the fact is, there are more great choices of gear out there nowadays than there has ever been. As I’ve found out, almost too many choices.

For the guys who own the Kuzma 4 point arms and who feel the 9” sounds better than the 11”, you don’t miss the vta on the fly feature? Have any of you removed the damping troughs on your 11” arm and then compared the two versions? This is supposed to make a noticeable improvement. With all the different height formulations of vinyl at our disposal, from 200 to 180 to 140 & 120 grams, and with all of these having different thicknesses, I’m just not sure I’m willing to give up that vta on the fly feature. I see it as a quick “fix” to quickly getting the tonearm adjusted to the different heights needed for the various thicknesses previously mentioned (as long as you’ve jotted down the best settings on the dial for getting back to the best sounding quality for that thickness once found). It may not be perfect for a particular record but it should at lease get you very close. On the 9” version, that option is gone.

I emailed Franc Kuzma and asked him that exact question. He answered personally which impressed me and I thought that was nice considering he’s never met me and doesn’t know me. I later found out he answers all emails personally, nice touch. I found his answer interesting. He felt the 9” absolutely does NOT sound any better than the 11” arm and he felt that that “rumor” came from people who bought a 9” arm and compared it to one of the older 11” arms they have had for a while which had the older steel bearings. Where all of the 9” arms have always had the newer better sounding jeweled sapphire bearings.

The most disturbing thing out of all your responses was shawnzh’s comments regarding the shootout of the 3 Smarttractors and how all 3 gave a different result. That is scary and I must agree, completely unacceptable! Did you ever email Dietrich Brakemeier (owner of acoustical systems) and let him know? He is another owner who seems very customer service driven and has replied to all my email questions personally. I’ll bet he would like to know about that result. A couple of mm’s is a lot! I wonder what would happen if 3 new models were compared now if you would get that same result?

Again, thank you all for your opinions.

Best regards
Scot

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am glad your surgery was successful!

 

[Solypsa]

I know it takes a lot of money in 2021 to do up a high-end analog rig, however I think your budget is sufficient to do justice to good records { which I presume you have or will acquire }

 

[scot]

Ron

Thank you for your well wishes. You always have a kind word.

Best
Scot

Solypsa

Yes, I think I can put together a pretty enjoyable analog front end that I’m sure will trounce my digital setup.

I have been looking at and have been very impressed with the new lineup of Acoustic Signature NEO turntables. A friend of mine used to sell the about 5 years ago and they were nice back then. Let’s just say have come very far in the last 5 years and have improved a lot. I am looking at the “Montana” model. High mass, a special bearing material they’ve developed and patented that boasts a diamond coating that they say reduced noise by up to 60% over their older bearings, 3 motor 2 belt drive system that are built in house and are hand matched motors to reduce vibration with an interesting software driven feature that manipulates the phase of the signal sent to the motors which reduces vibration, gel filled feet, constrained layer damped chassis, balanced brass rods imbedded in the platters that they call silencers. All CNC machining is done in house in their own factory in Germany. A 15 year warranty if the product is registered on their website when bought. It looks like they now have a lot more to offer. And, a friend is a dealer as well. So seriously considering one of those.

Best regards
Scot

 

[bazelio]

I also feel that the sapphire pivot cup upgrade on an older 11" 4P makes a noticeable difference, having done this to mine and also still owning another non-upgraded 11". But as always, effective mass and cartridge compatibility is going to be a variable. Certainly there may be situations where either the 9" or the 11" version is preferable to the listener, all other things being equal. And VTA on the fly isn't something I'd like to do without.