New Arrival.... Phasemation PP-5000 MC Reference Cartridge

ShawnZH

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Sep 20, 2020
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Congratulations for the new cartridge. I’m also looking at this new flagship from Phasemation. I quite like PP-2000. To me, it gives a healthy and ”correct” sound, a reference kind of sound. Now with PP-5000, the price increases significantly. Do you hear a significant improvement on the sound?

I have also an Etsuro Gold. How do you compare PP-5000 to Etsuro Gold? Without listening to the PP-5000, I guess PP-5000 is a bit more “serious” in presenting music while Gold is a bit more artistic?

Thanks.
 

shakti

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May 9, 2015
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Congratulations for the new cartridge. I’m also looking at this new flagship from Phasemation. I quite like PP-2000. To me, it gives a healthy and ”correct” sound, a reference kind of sound. Now with PP-5000, the price increases significantly. Do you hear a significant improvement on the sound?

I have also an Etsuro Gold. How do you compare PP-5000 to Etsuro Gold? Without listening to the PP-5000, I guess PP-5000 is a bit more “serious” in presenting music while Gold is a bit more artistic?

Thanks.
I have had several carts in the 8 to 10k segment playing in comparison to PP-2000, like Fuuga, Sumile, MSL Platinum, TechDAS, Azule, Anna, Hyperion and more. The PP-2000 plays easily in this segment, if paired with T-2000 step up. Kondo SFZ is a little limiting the PP-2000 (at least in my set up).

Going from PP-2000 to PP-5000 is a big step from 5k to 15k eur, and PP-2000 plays like costing 8 to 10k and PP-5000 is well placed in the 13 to 15k segment, which gives to PP-2000 an extraordinary value and to PP-5000 a fair value.

I prefer the PP-5000 over the Etsuro Gold, if it comes to resolution and attack, the Etsuro likes the little nuances and has his benefits in this regard. Maybe my PP-5000 will develop more into this direction, as it is not fully burn in.

On Kuzma Safir 9 the PP-5000 was a little brighter in tonal balance, as PP-2000, similar effect to Koetsu, when going to diamond cantilever. Changing to Glanz MH-124s or MH-1200s tonearm and using the new Phasemation 1200 DLC headshell, the PP-5000 was playing well balanced and very nice. In a direct comparison I preferred the Glanz / PP-5000 pair over Kuzma Safir 9 / PP-2000.

I a friends set up the PP-5000 is now fitted to SME V-12. Phonostage is AR Ref10.
We changed the step up from SFZ to T-2000, which was much better combination.

If you try PP-5000 you should give the T-2000 a try as well. Your Onyx will like the T-2000 as well.
Some of your carts still will prefer SFZ :)
 

iaxel

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Oct 25, 2016
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Kondo SFZ is a little limiting the PP-2000 (at least in my set up).
Hey shakti,
Are you using the SFz on its 3 ohm input? Should be similar to the T-2000 4 ohms.
 

shakti

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May 9, 2015
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Hey shakti,
Are you using the SFz on its 3 ohm input? Should be similar to the T-2000 4 ohms.
yes, the 3 ohm input.
 
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ShawnZH

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Sep 20, 2020
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I have had several carts in the 8 to 10k segment playing in comparison to PP-2000, like Fuuga, Sumile, MSL Platinum, TechDAS, Azule, Anna, Hyperion and more. The PP-2000 plays easily in this segment, if paired with T-2000 step up. Kondo SFZ is a little limiting the PP-2000 (at least in my set up).

Going from PP-2000 to PP-5000 is a big step from 5k to 15k eur, and PP-2000 plays like costing 8 to 10k and PP-5000 is well placed in the 13 to 15k segment, which gives to PP-2000 an extraordinary value and to PP-5000 a fair value.

I prefer the PP-5000 over the Etsuro Gold, if it comes to resolution and attack, the Etsuro likes the little nuances and has his benefits in this regard. Maybe my PP-5000 will develop more into this direction, as it is not fully burn in.

On Kuzma Safir 9 the PP-5000 was a little brighter in tonal balance, as PP-2000, similar effect to Koetsu, when going to diamond cantilever. Changing to Glanz MH-124s or MH-1200s tonearm and using the new Phasemation 1200 DLC headshell, the PP-5000 was playing well balanced and very nice. In a direct comparison I preferred the Glanz / PP-5000 pair over Kuzma Safir 9 / PP-2000.

I a friends set up the PP-5000 is now fitted to SME V-12. Phonostage is AR Ref10.
We changed the step up from SFZ to T-2000, which was much better combination.

If you try PP-5000 you should give the T-2000 a try as well. Your Onyx will like the T-2000 as well.
Some of your carts still will prefer SFZ :)
Thanks Shakti.

I’ll find a way to at least try out the T-2000.

Meanwhile, frankly, I don’t find a good match to the SFZ on my system. I use Kondo GE-10i and Allnic HDT-8000 as the MM stage. In most of the case, the 50x ratio of SFZ sounds too much amplification to me. My 2 Lyra carts at 0.25mv work better than the others on the SFZ, yet they’re still a bit too much to my taste.

Anna D‘s 0.2mv output seems to be a good match to SFZ however I don’t feel SFZ fits Anna D. Recently I found the Anna D sounds quite good on my Burmester 100 phono.

I never used a Kondo cart. Those carts are around 0.1mv output which should be a good match to SFZ’s 50x ratio.
 

iaxel

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Oct 25, 2016
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I never used a Kondo cart. Those carts are around 0.1mv output which should be a good match to SFZ’s 50x ratio.
Low impedance carts, such as MSL, Sumile, Kondo, Etsuro Urushi - will work great with the SFz's 1/3 ohm inputs.
 
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shakti

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Low impedance carts, such as MSL, Sumile, Kondo, Etsuro Urushi - will work great with the SFz's 1/3 ohm inputs.
MSL / TechDAS / Air Tight (and other MSL derivatives with high output voltage) can become critical with SFZ, if the following MM stage cannot work good with very high input voltage. The Sumile is one of the MSL derivatives with low output voltage, so a better fit to SFZ plus sensitive MM stage.

I prefer for 4 to 5ohm carts the T-2000 step up. 6 ohm up to 40 ohm is individual cartridge depending.
I do not like Ortofon too much on T-2000, but 40ohm Denon 103 works fine.

Phasemation and Koetsu will play very good with T-2000
 

iaxel

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Oct 25, 2016
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MSL / TechDAS / Air Tight (and other MSL derivatives with high output voltage) can become critical with SFZ, if the following MM stage cannot work good with very high input voltage.
MSL Gold worked great with the SFz and the Allnic H-7000V.
 
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ShawnZH

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Sep 20, 2020
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MSL Gold worked great with the SFz and the Allnic H-7000V.
MSL Gold is with an output of more than 0.5mv. SFz at 3ohm is with a boost ratio of 50 times. Wouldn’t this ratio produce a too high amplification? I’d try the MSL platinum with SFz+Allnic H-8000 anyway.
 

iaxel

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2016
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MSL Gold is with an output of more than 0.5mv. SFz at 3ohm is with a boost ratio of 50 times. Wouldn’t this ratio produce a too high amplification? I’d try the MSL platinum with SFz+Allnic H-8000 anyway.
KSL-SFz | AUDIO NOTE
Ratio is different for each input.
The 3ohm input is ~1:30.
It sounded great. Better than the internal SUT of the H-7000V.
 
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ShawnZH

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Sep 20, 2020
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KSL-SFz | AUDIO NOTE
Ratio is different for each input.
The 3ohm input is ~1:30.
It sounded great. Better than the internal SUT of the H-7000V.
My SFz is the latest version with only 2 inputs: 1.5ohm and 30 ohm, which gives 34db (50x) and 20db (10x) step-up ratio respectively. Even with 30x (30db), the MSL Gold will be stepped-up to about 15mv, which looks pretty high. Though in real listening, it might be very different than what the data reveals.
 

mtemur

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Mar 26, 2019
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My SFz is the latest version with only 2 inputs: 1.5ohm and 30 ohm, which gives 34db (50x) and 20db (10x) step-up ratio respectively. Even with 30x (30db), the MSL Gold will be stepped-up to about 15mv, which looks pretty high. Though in real listening, it might be very different than what the data reveals.
Me and 7 of my friends are using Kondo SFz with various Kondo phono stages. IME all Kondo phonos except M7 phono likes 7-12mV input. M7 phono has too much gain (46dB spec 48dB measured).

IME when you switch inputs of SFz it takes at least a week for unused coils to fully re-burn in. So it’s impossible to decide right away. Besides cartridge coil’s DC resistance and it’s suspension stiffness is playing a major role here. I mean you’re right, in my experience MSL made 1.4ohm TechdDas or Airtight cartridges are not a good match for the new SFz at 1.5ohm input.
 
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joeling

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Jan 8, 2014
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So, I may have have an opportunity to purchase a PP5000. I do like the PP2000 (mounted on a Groove master III I think) paired with the EA2000 a lot. However, my speakers are Focals which can be a little unforgiving with brigther source (but is on the mend to becoming more mellow by the year o_O). Do you think the PP5000 will overwhelm my setup & tip it to the bright side ? (I already have the DS cart for brighter / punchier rock stuff)
 
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shakti

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May 9, 2015
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PP-5000 can give you the feeling to be a little brighter as PP-2000 due to the higher resolution of the diamond cantilever. In my set up it was fine to listen with silver tonearm wires to my PP-2000. Using PP-5000 I prefer high quality copper cable.
only a little fine tuning, but this can make a difference. PP-5000 is a big step above PP-2000, so the cart is worth to do the fine tuning. I like the cart with Glanz MH-1200s tonearm using the Phasemation 1200 headshell, as you can see in the picture.

IMG_3770.jpeg
 

joeling

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2014
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shakti,

Thanks for the quick response. We have the same table and phono. I do have the DLC Glanz MH124 that has a Tiger Eye mounted at the moment. Have to think hard to spend this type of money on a cart :).
 

an.vamv

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2014
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PP-5000 can give you the feeling to be a little brighter as PP-2000 due to the higher resolution of the diamond cantilever. In my set up it was fine to listen with silver tonearm wires to my PP-2000. Using PP-5000 I prefer high quality copper cable.
only a little fine tuning, but this can make a difference. PP-5000 is a big step above PP-2000, so the cart is worth to do the fine tuning. I like the cart with Glanz MH-1200s tonearm using the Phasemation 1200 headshell, as you can see in the picture.

View attachment 124723

Hi Shakti,
What was your impression of the PP-5000 on the Tosca? You wouldn't recommend this combination vs Glanz&Phasemation headshell ?
Thanks
 

shakti

Well-Known Member
May 9, 2015
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Tosca works fine, a little darker as with Glanz MH-1200
Glanz is more heavy, from there PP-5000 and Glanz are more natural partners
 

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