Acoustical Sounds Axiom tonearm

[scot]

Bazelio

I agree with your comment that some people like a 9” arm over the 12” version. Marc Gomez (the designer of the SAT arm that some people feel is the best sounding arm they have ever heard) and Michael Fremer are both on record (no pun intended) saying the both just think the 9” arms sound more lively and energetic and that the 12” arms, in general can sound somewhat lazier.

Have you ever tried removing the damping troughs off your upgraded 4 point? I’ve read that this change is supposed to make a somewhat noticeable improvement.

Which cartridge do you find most enjoyable to listen to on that arm?

When you do the math, (if you believe in the math, I’m shocked at how many people don’t) and try to find a cartridge that when used with the 11” 4 point that falls between the 8 - 12Hz preferred range, the 18 grams of effective mass makes it a little more of a challenge and somewhat narrows your choices.

For example, I’m considering buying a DS Audio Grand Master cartridge. If you input the specs into one of those online resonant frequency calculators, the resonant frequency of the Grand Master cartridge when coupled with the 18 grams of effective mass on the 4 point are terrible. I found out, from DS Audio that the dynamic compliance of that cartridge is 7 x 10-6 cm/Dyne but they don’t tell you if that number is measured at 10Hz or 100Hz? Makes a big difference. Without knowing that answer it makes it impossible to get an accurate result. The online calculator is calibrated at 10Hz for compliance. Very frustrating that the don’t put that little tidbit in their own specs, hell, they don’t even list the compliance. I had to email musical surroundings who had to email DS Audio just to get that answer. I’m still waiting on the 10Hz or 100Hz mystery. I must admit, Ken at musical surroundings has been very helpful. If by chance anyone knows please let me know. I would greatly appreciate it.

I want that cartridge and I’ve ordered the tonearm so I’m committed to the arm. But, if the resonant frequency falls way outside of that 8-12Hz range, I’m not chancing it. Yes, if the numbers aren’t right, it still may sound great, all I’m saying is, I would feel a whole lot better if the math agreed.

 

[scot]

Hi everyone

Have you all seen the 30 minute video on YouTube made by Danny Kay on the DS Audio optical cartridges? He even uses the EMM Labs power supply/eq and talks about it and how it sounds. He even briefly mentions Ron Resnick and their listening session they once had. I apologize for not posting the link, please forgive me, I’m writing this in my listening room on an IPad and because my computer skills are non existent, I’m not sure how to do that! Pathetic huh? It should be easy to find. You Tube, put in DS Audio, & Danny Kay and it should pop right up. Basically, it’s a 30 minute rant about how great they all are, from the entry level to the Grand Master. He’s quite a character but a nice guy.

I find it interesting that one of the leading minds in the digital world saw an opportunity and came out with a product for the analog world to enjoy. Thank you Mr. Meitner. I wonder how long it took him to dust off his lp’s?

Scot

 

[Fred Crane]

Hi All

I’m looking at buying a new tonearm and I want something really nice. The front runners are the Kuzma 4 point, Durand Tosca, Schröder CB, LT, Reference? Acoustical Systems Axiom, Graham Elite to name just a few. My biggest concern is the lack of info or reviews on the internet for some of these arms. I know there are a few guys on this site that really like the Durand Tosca. The most frustrating arm is the Acoustical Systems Axiom, although it’s been around for years and it’s one of the more expensive arms (under $22,000.00) I cannot fing one professional review, which I find odd. Even the discussions on this website talks about the build quality and brilliant design and superior parts yet very little in the way of sound quality. Here is my problem, no one talks about the sound quality or how it compares with other top arms. When you read about the various Schröder arms the main attributes that are always mentioned are how natural they sound with accurate, beautiful tonal color. With regard to the Kuzma 4 points, it’s almost impossible to find a bad word and most reviewers and owners seem to agree, it’s arguably one of the best arms you can buy regardless of price (sans the SAT arms). So, can anyone shed some light on the Axioms sound quality specifically? Thank you.

Scot

Hi Scot, You didn't mention the cartridge(s) you favor at present. You have quite a list of contenders for arms...depending upon the cartridge you may also consider one of the upper level Glanz Tonearms. The MH-124SD is very nice with our quite heavy field coil cartridge, (Dava). There are several reviews of Glanz arms, https://parttimeaudiophile.com/2020/09/27/glanz-mh-124s-premium-tonearm-review/

and another you can click to on the Glanz home page from HiFi News. Likely a few more from a google search. We love the Glanz and unlike some other highly resolving arms, it's relatively no muss no fuss.

 

[bazelio]

@scot yes, I've removed damping troughs, upgraded the cups to sapphire, and the internal wire to Kondo. Liveliness is not a problem with this arm. I am using the Airtight Opus 1 cartridge. Previously, I'd tried a Master Signature from VdH with custom compliance specifically for the 4p. It was too lively - if there is such a thing. Very overdone HiFi sound. But, then, my system doesn't leave much room for error in that department. It just wasn't the right match.

 

[mtemur]

The different opinions may come from the different versions of AXIOM we own. It might also be personal taste or overall setup. But I agree with you that 9 inch 4P sounds dynamic and lively. When I mount my Lyra Atlas Lambda onto it, I found it perform better than the 11 inch. I took it as a better match of effective mass and compliance, but it might also be the design and simplicity of the 9 inch.

Usually a 9” tonearm is more dynamic compared to 12” counterpart of same model. It’s a physical fact. If the original design is 12” and 9” is derived from that then I would consider getting 12”. Other than that I think 9” is better. I have both 9” and 12” sme V tonearms and I can definitely say that 9” is more dynamic. Being dynamic is one of the most important values of a tonearm.

 

[ShawnZH]

@scot yes, I've removed damping troughs, upgraded the cups to sapphire, and the internal wire to Kondo. Liveliness is not a problem with this arm. I am using the Airtight Opus 1 cartridge. Previously, I'd tried a Master Signature from VdH with custom compliance specifically for the 4p. It was too lively - if there is such a thing. Very overdone HiFi sound. But, then, my system doesn't leave much room for error in that department. It just wasn't the right match.

Hi Bazelio,

Have you tried to add back the troughs to the VdH/4P combo? Would that possibly make the sound less lively? I'm experimenting mouting with or without the throughs, as well as the depth of the damping screws into the dampling oil. I found the more I dip the screws, the calmer sound was heard, in anothe word, less lively or less dynamic.

Thanks,
Shawn

 

[tima]

When you do the math, (if you believe in the math, I’m shocked at how many people don’t) and try to find a cartridge that when used with the 11” 4 point that falls between the 8 - 12Hz preferred range, the 18 grams of effective mass makes it a little more of a challenge and somewhat narrows your choices.

I found out, from DS Audio that the dynamic compliance of that cartridge is 7 x 10-6 cm/Dyne but they don’t tell you if that number is measured at 10Hz or 100Hz? Makes a big difference. Without knowing that answer it makes it impossible to get an accurate result. The online calculator is calibrated at 10Hz for compliance. Very frustrating ...

Fwiw, the Fuuga cartridge mates very well with 4Point 11-inch - both by numbers and by sound.
It is 15g with a compliance of 7 x 10-6 cm/dyne (100Hz)

Wrt the 10Hz vs 100Hz issue, I've seen no conversion. If there is concern, one suggestion is to multiply the cu number measured at 100Hz by 1.5 - 2.0. I use 1.75

With a mere 7.7g weight and a compliance of 7 (100Hz), the DS Audio Grand Master cartridge should be okay wrt to resonance (w/in 8-12 Hz range) with the 11" 4Point effective mass of 18g. That's according to the Vinyl Engine resonance calculator.

 

[bazelio]

Hi Bazelio,

Have you tried to add back the troughs to the VdH/4P combo? Would that possibly make the sound less lively? I'm experimenting mouting with or without the throughs, as well as the depth of the damping screws into the dampling oil. I found the more I dip the screws, the calmer sound was heard, in anothe word, less lively or less dynamic.

Thanks,
Shawn

I sold the VdH long ago. At the time, I still had the troughs attached and I did experiment with damping oil. The problem in my opinion is that damping the arm isn't the right way to achieve these results. It ends up sucking out fine detail and ambience in addition to the things you mention. So for me, the answer is no damping (and no troughs), and a better cartridge. Removing the troughs will slightly reduce the arm effective mass. I.e. you'll have to make sure to reset VTF.

 

[scot]

Hi everyone

For. those of you who are interested, I did find out that the DS Audio Grand Master cartridge that has a dynamic compliance of 7 x 10-6 cm/Dyne is measured at 125Hz. That comes straight from Aki San the designer of the DS Audio cartridges. I had never heard of any cartridge manufacturer measuring their cartridges at anything other than either 10Hz or 100Hz. I wasn’t sure he fully understood the question so I asked him again and worded the question a little differently. His answer came back and he said “as I said, we measure compliance at 125Hz” and he even included a picture of the test record they used.

To convert a compliance measurement from 100Hz (in this case 125Hz) I also use 1.75 to get the measurement which would be equivalent to a 10Hz measurement. So, at 125Hz I guess it would be almost double. So around 14 x 10-6 cm/Dyne. With the Kuzma 4 point arm and the 7.7 grams of mass this would put the resonant frequency of that particular arm/cartridge combo between the 8-12Hz range which is what you would want. Now that I know they are both between that desired range, I still don’t know if I want to buy the Grand Master probably with the EMM Labs eq or one of the better Koetsu stone bodied cartridges and a good step up transformer and/or a good active phono stage? Not an easy decision. Take care.

Best
Scot

 

[scot]

Hi tima

Thank you for letting me know about the Fuuga cartridge. It’s nice to know that it to would work with the 4 point arm Everything I have ever read about the Fuuga cartridge says it’s a top notch cartridge. Also, I’m considering an Ortofon Mc Anna D, I believe around the same price as the Fuuga. The Anna D is also supposed to be a top contender and would work very well with the 4 point arm. The Anna D happens to be one of Michael Fremers favorite cartridges and he uses it in his 4 point arm (as his 2nd arm) along with his Lyra Atlas Lambda sl. Lots of great choices! Take care.

Best
Scot

 

[Phantom-Audio]

Analogmagik is a must have tool...the final precision/tuning makes allot of difference
.

 

[RideCA]

I do use the Axiom Tonearm and had various Kuzma 4 Point.

Do you know this review?

https://rutherfordaudio.com/product-reviews/Acoustical-Systems-Axiom.pdf?fbclid=IwAR1pTF9RYtdgM8UaTvIx5l92etqObkf5lSV0qjTAfG89_au7dtKghSj21NU

I like, that the Axiom can be fine tuned in a very precise way, which will bring the best out of a cartridge with ease.

I also have The Axiom as well as the smaller Aguilar which I use for mono duty. Like Shakti, I have extensive experience with the 4P and love it too. I still find The Axiom to be superior. The combination of weight combinations for different mass/compliance cartridges as well as the precision vertical tracking force adjustment makes it super easy to dial in. Moreover, the adjustable cartridge mount (non-removable headshell - related to the Arché headshell that I also have for other arms) allows for proper stylus rake adjustment while still having on-the-fly vertical tracking angle adjustment for different album thicknesses is a big plus. I have mounted and listened to everything from a Lyra Atlas, Etna, Etna SL to a Koetsu Onyx Platinum, Sumiko Palo Santos, and the list goes on. This is a great tonearm.