added a 3rd Studer A-820 Mk2 with both 1/4" and 1/2" heads, guides and hubs
- Thread starter Mike Lavigne
- Start date
so you joined the forum just to ask me that question? good for you.
well....er….I do have a few tools. the one i'm missing my friend will bring over tomorrow.
the first pic shows my 2 MRL Calibration tapes, 399-271-512-139 for 1/2", and 299-271-512-130 for 1/4"...….my Fluke 87v multi-meter and my Rigol Oscilloscope. the second pic shows my friend's Audio Precision One Plus signal generator.
my plan is to stick to 15ips. but I do have a preference for 1/2".
i'd comment on Fred's Studer list comments, but why? Fred is not changing so why waste my breath. he wants to deal with pro audio guys but they have no money, he wants our money but does not have the patience/temperament for us. a sad case. I hope he finds what he is looking for.
Mike always said he wasnt a measurement guy .
Looks quite professional to me
over the years I've acquired some good tools so when 'smart' people come around to assist me with things, I have the tools on hand for them to do the work. and have had my hand held to do a few fixes myself too.
i'm certainly not a measurement guy. but dubbing tapes optimally is a new process for me, and with these outstanding RTR decks and since I have some knowledgeable local friends and either own personally or have access to proper tools why not learn? with rare exception, up till now I was just playing them back to listen. not producing something.
I suppose the question is what is the delta of fine tuning the process verses not. all of the source tapes I have are modern formulations, almost 100% IEC and Tape Project 'clones' (similar set-up to that). but unless I go through this learning/mentoring process I won't know what i'm missing. oh and BTW, my dubbing A-820 does not have a direct out head switch, and my intentions are that it stays 'stock'. and both 1/4" and 1/2" head-modules are separately tuned so they can be switched and work properly.
not sure how deep I will get into it. hey; i'll give Fred some of the credit for his push, but when I committed the resources to acquiring the third A-820 I knew I needed to raise my game to have it make sense.
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thanks David. and I agree with your assessment of the poster's intentions.
11 years ago when I was the first audiophile to encounter Fred (an 8 month frustrating/rewarding experience), he was positioned to reap the potentially significant benefits from the coming audiophile tape explosion. alas......it never happened for him as it could have for whatever reason. now it's my fault. as if I owed him to be a conduit for his efforts. I hope he works it out, as he has much to offer.
We are audiophiles and sound reproduction is an hobby. Fred approach is that of a professional and he has always accepted our hobby, although not fully understanding it. However as soon as you consider producing tapes you are entering another zone - probably Fred did not understand you were producing them for your own private use and enjoyment.
Fred is a real expert in Studers and a perfectionist - I had several exchanges of posts with him concerning technical aspect of the A80 and learned a lot from him, although he was not exactly friendly when exposing my amateur ignorance! But he always addressed the subject and never refused to explain. Anyone knowing him could guess that bringing him in an audiophile forum would be a disaster. I hope this forum keeps a polite and friendly attitude towards him, he deserves it.
Not sure how he could blame you but it has been his mission to rip into audiophiles at every opportunity. For some reason he thinks that anyone who uses something should be an expert for that item. I guess I need to get out my car mechanic's book before I drive somewhere next.
I won't cross post stuff he has written on the Studer archives but all he does is put down those of us who try to achieve a higher level of sound reproduction. I did suggest to him that we are keeping technicians like himself in business, or at least partially so.
Mike well i have the impression that if you do something regarding audio you do it throughly.
Which is the way to go off course , Also anybody who drives 500 miles to get a pair of VAC s earns my respect , lol
Which is the way to go off course , Also anybody who drives 500 miles to get a pair of VAC s earns my respect , lol
I've done much crazier drives than that in the name of hifi. I drove 1700 miles round trip to Marin County and back overnight to pick up my Rockport tt back in 2002. heck, I drove overnight 1500 miles round trip to pick up my Studer A-820 in (as I recall) Cloverdale, California and got 5-6 hours of training from Fred in 2008 (Fred was his irascible self but very helpful). I've done 'multiple' dozens of evening 350 mile round trips to Portland (where Jonathan Tinn lives) over the last 17-18 years to pick up or drop off something.
i am passionate and....don't mind driving.
I'm comfortable not knowing stuff when it is not holding back the performance. the 'why' or 'how' for it's own self is not essential. but this dubbing process appears to have a variable result based on precision, like cartridge set up.
time to learn a little.....to get a feel for what is important to do.
Indeed nothing wrong with learning , although not studer they also give tape machine use courses at ATR services
Iirc
Iirc
Enjoying this thread immensely. Some comments.
I "set up" my pre's with the special MRL repro tape that synch's with my ST 1500 to produce a 20 to 20K (plus) frequency sweep and adjust everything to get the flattest response. HOWEVER, this is with a 100 mH Nortronics Pro repro head on my little Stellavox.
From my own experience with PB heads (manufacturers and impedance), when you hook up the pre to another head, the major sonic difference will be in the high frequencies. Because I never see a "finally mated pre"; in the instructions, I point out to customers (who almost universally don't start out with (or want to have to bother with) any "test equipment") where the High Frequency adjustments are -and to "crank them" up or down a few turns if they feel the stock sound is too bright or dull - just remember where the "starting point" was.
Feel free to but have already taken enough flack for this approach - refer to above quote.
20+ years ago when I started playing with tape, I was able to collect quite a few of the old, pre-recorded 2 tracks made in the mid to late 50's. It didn't take long to realize that the highs between tapes and manufacturers varied all over the place - NAB be damned. In the process of digging into my G36 (later an A77) to "improve" it's sound I found the playback EQ components and realized that their HF response was set by a fixed resistor. Put in a pot(entiometer) in its place - was able to mount it so the shaft extended out thru the front panel and now had a nice "treble control" which allowed me maybe +/- 6dB boost /cut at 10K (Treble EQ doesn't begin till 1Khz). Put a mark on the front panel where "flat response" was, according to the instruments. Made all the difference in the world when listening - AND DIDN'T add anything to the circuitry that wasn't already there.
Will post later some thoughts on dubbing - start with a teaser - when you dub a tape, you have two maybe identical decks sitting next to each other. One plays the tape - "de equalizes" it flat, then the record deck "re-equalizes" it. I'll make the statement that you are "accumulating" time and frequency errors not to mention distortion - and because you are probably not playing back the tape on the same type deck it was recorded on, there are additional "errors" accumulating because of that. Assuming you are happy with the EQ already on the tape you want to dub, why not just "dub it flat"?. It takes a few tricks but I've played with it, can do it with one K/C pre (with a little more gain so it can also act as a record amp) , and the results are quite satisfying. More later if interested...
Charles
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
When I dub tapes for the majors, they always ask for a "flat" copy as well as the EQ'd copy. Dubbing tapes is like cutting a laquer. I'm still learning things even after 20+ years!
Can you post a photo of a playback FR using your ST1500 and the MRL sweep tape?
When setting the play low-frequency EQ, do you compensate for fringing-effect of the MRL tape?
I think the most important thing to consider when making a dub is the proper recording level. You don't want to make the new recording at the same (or lower) flux level as the playback tape. Recording at the same flux level will mean the copy will have an increased noise floor compared to the original tape. I think that it's best to record at a slightly higher flux level than the original tape. That way you are capturing the entire dynamic range of the original tape. In other words, you want the noise floor of the original tape to be slightly higher than the noise floor of the recording deck. The only exception to this is that you don't want to overload the recording tape when you record at a slightly higher level (as in, you don't want to exceed zero VU). This usually will not happen if your deck is calibrated for the best recording tapes available (SM900 and ATR).
When members here are making dubs, are you recording at the same, lower or higher flux level as the original tape? Or do you just record up to 0VU on all dubs?
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Tapetech,
My comments are in red (I hope).. Don't do any dubbing on a regular basis.
Charles
My comments are in red (I hope).. Don't do any dubbing on a regular basis.
Charles
I adjust the LF to be a compromise between minimizing the amplitude of the bumps versus a general rolloff of their "envelope"
Your MRL sweep tape has no fringing compensation: 125Hz and 250Hz will have an unwanted 1dB boost due to fringing, so you have to subtract 1 dB from your final LF (low frequency) curve. So when adjusting LF FR, you want 125 and 250 to be up 1 dB. Also 63 Hz should be up 1.3 dB and 32 Hz should be up 1.4 dB .That will give you flat LF response. If you instead adjust those mentioned frequencies to be flat, then you will have a rolled off low-end in playback.
Another way to adjust low-end FR is to put deck into record and adjust LF play EQ to be flat from 20 to 500Hz. You have to verify that your record EQ amp FR is correct to use the record method (flat from 20 to 500Hz with 35 usec EQ).
Your MRL sweep tape has no fringing compensation: 125Hz and 250Hz will have an unwanted 1dB boost due to fringing, so you have to subtract 1 dB from your final LF (low frequency) curve. So when adjusting LF FR, you want 125 and 250 to be up 1 dB. Also 63 Hz should be up 1.3 dB and 32 Hz should be up 1.4 dB .That will give you flat LF response. If you instead adjust those mentioned frequencies to be flat, then you will have a rolled off low-end in playback.
Another way to adjust low-end FR is to put deck into record and adjust LF play EQ to be flat from 20 to 500Hz. You have to verify that your record EQ amp FR is correct to use the record method (flat from 20 to 500Hz with 35 usec EQ).
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