Alexx V arrive in NJ

[FDPDK]

Congratulations on your new speakers , i really like the look of them. And am sure you will enjoy them.

 

[marty]

I hate break-in. But as we all know, it’s a fact of life in the world of high end audio. Break-in can be a maddening experience since its mostly a waiting exercise. However, during the waiting process, the hobbyist part of me enjoys the part whereby making some adjustments that might be required in order to capture some beneficial gains of the new gear.. The Alexx V’s are a formidable project in this regard. Surprisingly, there are some attributes of the speaker design that make the experience interesting and even illuminating.

There are two properties that require optimization in order to get the best sound from these speakers. The first is speaker placement in the room. Many audiophiles have heard about the room voicing process Wilson recommends for speaker placement in the room. This can be a tedious task that can take hours to days (or longer). In my case, since there are several similarities in design to the Alexandrias, I am using the former speaker position in the room as the basis for speaker placement for the A V’s. If refinement is required, I’ll revisit this in a few weeks after full break-in.

The second important property is the alignment of the drivers once the speakers are in position. Here’s where things can be challenging. Due to their focused array alignment, the drivers may be rather precisely positioned for optimum listening, but the position of the lower and upper midrange drivers and the tweeter is extremely dependent on the distance of each driver from the listener, as well as the listener ear height. The good news is the mechanism of making these adjustments is a very well thought out and engineered as Wilson offers excellent guidance for set-up using a detailed but easy to understand series of charts that indicate the optimum position for each driver. It’s a beautiful system that makes it easier to render finer adjustments than the comparable Alexandria. The refinement and range of the adjustability is impressive. My overall impression is that of a device that is really more like a laboratory reference instrument. The ability to render fine adjustments of each driver is what allows the speaker performance to achieve one of its founding design goals, which is excellent time alignment.

So far, so good, right? Well, sort of. In a perfect world, it would be great if Wilson provided exact measurements for every possible listening distance in their charts. However, there is a pragmatic limitation to such an approach. This means that in some cases, although Wilson provides guidance for a wide range of listener distances, it often does this in units that may not be what is not ideal for your set-up. For example, there are precise settings for listening position of 12 ft and 14 ft. But what if you are at 13 ft? (which is exactly where I am!). Well, this is where your participation becomes important. You will have to extrapolate from the charts to come up with positioning data that is right for a distance that might fall between 2 known distances. The good news is that the small differences in possible configurations can all be evaluated by the only criteria that really matters, which is listening. There is some downside to doing this since it’s a subjective assessment, but so far, I have not found this to be a particularly difficult task. Having done my first drill down session last night, I found that a simple piano recording is a great way to gain confidence in set-up. When the piano sound like a piano, you’re done! The A V is a precision instrument and fine adjustments of 1-2 mm in driver rake or distance really translates to sonic differences that can appreciated rather easily. So while not every possible listener position is spelled out clearly in the Wilson tables, a combination of extrapolation from the tables as well as listening, makes the process quite doable. By the end of last night’s session, I thought I had achieved a very good sound field. However, since I’m still in the throes of break-in. I’m sure there are further refinements ahead. But I’m impressed that the process is straightforward and will ultimately be very satisfactory for optimizing the sound of the speakers in my room.

 

[ashandger]

Marty, many thanks for sharing your experience with Alexx V. May I ask if your full system is listed somewhere on this forum? Thanks

 

[sbo6]

Congrats! Enjoy, always exciting getting new speakers, probably the most excitement of any component.

 

[LL21]

Marty,

You are a scientist's scientist. Meticulous, exacting and relentlessly focused on getting to the proper result.

 

[dminches]

Maybe Wilson should provide a spreadsheet so one can plug in speaker distances and the alignment calculations are produced.

Hopefully the process isn’t too frustrating for you.

 

[microstrip]

I hate break-in. But as we all know, it’s a fact of life in the world of high end audio. Break-in can be a maddening experience since its mostly a waiting exercise. However, during the waiting process, the hobbyist part of me enjoys the part whereby making some adjustments that might be required in order to capture some beneficial gains of the new gear.. The Alexx V’s are a formidable project in this regard. Surprisingly, there are some attributes of the speaker design that make the experience interesting and even illuminating.

There are two properties that require optimization in order to get the best sound from these speakers. The first is speaker placement in the room. Many audiophiles have heard about the room voicing process Wilson recommends for speaker placement in the room. This can be a tedious task that can take hours to days (or longer). In my case, since there are several similarities in design to the Alexandrias, I am using the former speaker position in the room as the basis for speaker placement for the A V’s. If refinement is required, I’ll revisit this in a few weeks after full break-in.

The second important property is the alignment of the drivers once the speakers are in position. Here’s where things can be challenging. Due to their focused array alignment, the drivers may be rather precisely positioned for optimum listening, but the position of the lower and upper midrange drivers and the tweeter is extremely dependent on the distance of each driver from the listener, as well as the listener ear height. The good news is the mechanism of making these adjustments is a very well thought out and engineered as Wilson offers excellent guidance for set-up using a detailed but easy to understand series of charts that indicate the optimum position for each driver. It’s a beautiful system that makes it easier to render finer adjustments than the comparable Alexandria. The refinement and range of the adjustability is impressive. My overall impression is that of a device that is really more like a laboratory reference instrument. The ability to render fine adjustments of each driver is what allows the speaker performance to achieve one of its founding design goals, which is excellent time alignment.

So far, so good, right? Well, sort of. In a perfect world, it would be great if Wilson provided exact measurements for every possible listening distance in their charts. However, there is a pragmatic limitation to such an approach. This means that in some cases, although Wilson provides guidance for a wide range of listener distances, it often does this in units that may not be what is not ideal for your set-up. For example, there are precise settings for listening position of 12 ft and 14 ft. But what if you are at 13 ft? (which is exactly where I am!). Well, this is where your participation becomes important. You will have to extrapolate from the charts to come up with positioning data that is right for a distance that might fall between 2 known distances. The good news is that the small differences in possible configurations can all be evaluated by the only criteria that really matters, which is listening. There is some downside to doing this since it’s a subjective assessment, but so far, I have not found this to be a particularly difficult task. Having done my first drill down session last night, I found that a simple piano recording is a great way to gain confidence in set-up. When the piano sound like a piano, you’re done! The A V is a precision instrument and fine adjustments of 1-2 mm in driver rake or distance really translates to sonic differences that can appreciated rather easily. So while not every possible listener position is spelled out clearly in the Wilson tables, a combination of extrapolation from the tables as well as listening, makes the process quite doable. By the end of last night’s session, I thought I had achieved a very good sound field. However, since I’m still in the throes of break-in. I’m sure there are further refinements ahead. But I’m impressed that the process is straightforward and will ultimately be very satisfactory for optimizing the sound of the speakers in my room.

Thanks for reporting. We should remember that If they are too lazy to extrapolate and do not want to have the fun of optimization by listening owners can always ask Wilson Audio for the intermediate values.

Do you know if the AllexV charts need any correction specific to the amplifier, like the XVX or the WAMM?

 

[marty]

Marty,

You are a scientist's scientist. Meticulous, exacting and relentlessly focused on getting to the proper result.

Thanks Lloyd. But I'm just an audiophile with situational OCD that has made me successful in my career and has also facilitated my audio quest through the years. However, most all of the credit for the "proper result" goes to Dave and Daryl Wilson. You and I (and many others) like Wilson speakers for one main reason, which is the way they are voiced, and hence, how they sound. Voicing speakers is a bit like the practice of medicine..There are components of both art and science. One of the most compelling Wilson ads, at least for me, was an ad showing Dave/Daryl sitting in their listening chair and changing single capacitors through long wires to the crossover in the speakers, to document the sonic effects of their changes (presumably in value or brand), in real time. I knew right away that this is exactly how I would do it. Scientific calculations can get you far, but changing tiny cap values at the listening position instantly with some clips and 25 foot wire leads to the crossover? That's art. And since I trust Dave and Daryl know what real music sounds like, it made the decision an easy one, especially since I bought them without hearing them. I'm sure that the Wilsons are not the only speaker designers that use both scientific and subjective listening. But the technique of doing small changes in real time at the listening position is something that deeply impressed me. (I think the only other designer who may have done something similar was John Dunlavy, but I may be wrong).

I would add that there's a bit more to it as well. I've watched Wilson build a premier company over 40+ years and have just been flat out impressed with his humanity and not just his audio prowess. How many of us remember CES shows from the late 70's and 80's when Wilson refused to demo his speakers on a Sunday because it is the Sabbath? For goodness sake, he was the Chick-Fil-A of his time! (Can you imagine how much business they lose for the same reason by not being open on Sunday?) I remember people, particularly industry writers, begging Dave to demo on Sunday. He would have none of it. Whether you were famous, rich or poor, he always treated people with forthright honesty and politeness. How do you not have the deepest respect for a man like that? It's what made me want to buy his products long before I could afford them. My guess and my hope is that they will be successful for many years to come.

 

[LL21]

Modest as always, Marty.

That said, I do agree that the Wilsons are an impressive dynasty in audio. And I suspect that is no accident. Hard work. Integrity. Quality. And if their personal lives reflect a deeply moral code, then my response is RESPECT AND HONOR.

 

[Low325]

Congrats! looks like a wonderful system. Soul over at Alma represented well. Didn‘t know I had a hifi shop relatively close by - made a recent trip over to AA and Soul was kind enough to show me around and arrange a demo for me and my little ones. Knowing a local dealer around the bend….that kind of changes things a little

 

[rblnr]

I have no doubt you will completely nail the setup over time Marty. Enjoy!

 

[tima]

Maybe Wilson should provide a spreadsheet so one can plug in speaker distances and the alignment calculations are produced.

They don't do that for aligning the physical position of their speakers in a room. For that process they send a Wilson person or a factory-trained dealer to your home and position the speakers by first assessing the room (what Wilson calls their "voweling-in" process) and then by listening with your participation. This typicallyl gets down to 1/4" adjustments. The service Is included as part of the purchase.

In the larger models, the vertical angle and the fore-back position of individual mid-range and tweeter speakers can be adjusted for proper time alignment. Speaker documentation includes a pre-calculated spreadsheet for positioning each speaker capable of adjustment based on listening position distances, including ear height. That's so you can do it yourself and the Wilson setup person will show you how he makes those adjustments per those charts during the initial setup.


a snippet from one of the Alexia 2 spreadsheets.


Adjuster mechanism for one of the Alex V speakers

 

[Mikem53]

It’s way too early to discuss the sound of the A V’s as they are just shaking off their crate dust but after 2 days a few things are becoming apparent. Best perhaps to talk a bit about the differences I’ve noticed between the new speakers and the Alexandria’s they replaced.

To begin, one can’t help realize rather quickly the enormous difference in the treble domain due to the use of the Synergy tweeter vs the well known Focal beryllium tweeter in the Alexandrias. The Synergy silk soft dome presents a lovely top end with lower distortion, greater detail, and a better integration to the frequencies below its bandpass. The Focal tweeter is a good tweeter, but it can, particularly when driven hard, become a bit strident. It's no wonder that Wilson has often demo'd with tube amps with Alexandrias. It's an excellent match for the Focal tweeter. The Lamm ML-3 is the best amp match for the beryllium tweeter that I have heard in an effort to maximize good sound from a tweeter that can be less than forgiving and have an "edge" when pushed. This is not a trait of the Synergy. It is overall smoother, more refined, and does not call attention to itself like the beryllium tweeter can. It’s no surprise that the Synergy tweeter (all variants) have been a cornerstone of the Wilson speaker line for several years now.

One unanticipated effect of the new tweeter is a bit more flexibility with regard to the vertical listening position. I’ve always felt that D’Appolito designs (and modifications thereof) can be bears regarding placement. The Alexandrias are some of the very worst speakers in this regard. When Wilson provides detailed tables to allow the speakers to be set up precisely for ear height, they ain’t kidding. If you are sitting a half inch above or below the ideal position for spot-on integration of the beryllium to the midrange drivers in the Alexandrias, the sound can be unbalanced and even utterly atrocious. I have always thought that this is the main reason people come away from shows often not liking what they heard at a big Wilson demo. It makes perfect sense that when speakers are set up for ideal placement for a listener of a certain height, the ear height of the many listeners who then sit and listen will be inaccurate for a wide range of listeners who will therefore not hear the speaker properly set-up. This is just an unavoidable fact of life for Alexandrias. XLFs, and other speaker in their line. Many of us recall the “Venetian blind” effect of many dipole and electrostatic speakers that impose vice-like listening position requirements horizontally. Well, the big Wilsons do this for vertical positioning. If Wilsons are not set up exactly to your ear height, they just won’t sound their best.

This is where the Synergy tweeter confers some benefits vs the older tweeter. I don’t know if its because the beryllium tweeter has a concave dome whereas the new tweeter is convex, or whether it is a crossover point difference, a polar response effect on frequency radiation or something else, but there is certainly a bit more flexibility in the vertical listening range to achieve good overall sound with a bit less of a vertical Venetian blind effect in the A-V’s compared to the Alexandrias. Of course, this means essentially nothing in the context of how the system will sound for its primary listener in their own home. Rather, this is of more importance in assuring that a multitude of listeners can have a positive listening experience when hearing Synergy-based Wilsons either in a showroom or any home environment. It’s is comforting to know the new tweeter allows more listening position flexibility in dealer showrooms as it’s just not practical to set up the speaker perfectly for each new listener, each with various ear listening heights. All of this is a long way of saying that the new tweeter, in addition to sounding better, is a slightly friendlier design from a set-up perspective.

I’m still well short of finding the best speaker placement and listening position so further comments at this time are unwise. The thing is starting to sound good but I have a long way to go.

I never met a metal dome tweeter that I could get along with Including the Focal Be, which always seems to get great reviews.. I always end up with a silk dome that doesn’t shine as brightly, but always seems sweeter and more coherent with the other drivers.
Do you have your choice of ports as in previous models ? How is your bass response without the subs?
Just curious as I had a Transmission line setup on my previous VSR speakers and they were very difficult to setup properly..
Enjoy !

 

[asiufy]

Marty,

We ran into the same situation in the store. Our "usual" seating position was in between two settings. Of course, one option is to try both, and keep the seating stationary, but I've also found worthwhile to investigate actually moving the seating to match the listening distance in the charts, so in your case, try either 12 or 14 feet. in my case, I preferred moving closer to the speakers.

Also, like you said, the speakers need a few more hours of running in time, so once everything is said and done, they might end up in a different position in your room, which might fit closer to one of the listening distances in the charts!

I consider it part of the fun, the whole positioning and set up thing with the Wilsons

 

[PeterA]

Congratulations Marty. I love the mood of the room and I suspect given your experience that you will have a very enjoyable sound with a little bit of effort. Thank you for sharing the process with us. It is interesting to follow along.

 

[marty]

Maybe Wilson should provide a spreadsheet so one can plug in speaker distances and the alignment calculations are produced.

Hopefully the process isn’t too frustrating for you.

I was told that once I learn my exact listening distance, Wilson would indeed provide calculations for my particular set-up. This is good. However, between the extrapolations one can make, and the "try it and listen" approach, Im not sure what this would provide that I haven't already done. Once break-in is complete, I'll reach out and see what the "official" Wilson settings are for my listening distance. It will be fun to see how my results compare to the settings from the oracles in Provo.

 

[marty]

How is your bass response without the subs?

Ah, bass! The final frontier for set-up. I'll have more to say once break-in is complete. All I can say now is that the bass "ain't too shabby"!

 

[marty]

Congratulations Marty. I love the mood of the room and I suspect given your experience that you will have a very enjoyable sound with a little bit of effort. Thank you for sharing the process with us. It is interesting to follow along.

Thanks Peter. Amazing how we have traveled such different paths to get to where we are. Yet all roads lead to Rome!

I liked your comment about the "mood" of the room. There are actually two moods. Like most of us, I don't have the luxury of a purely dedicated sound room. It's really our prime living space so it has to accommodate lots of functions even though we call it the "music room". It has a Steinway at one end (piano pics https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/spectral-dma-400s-arrive-in-new-jersey.12490/#post-228332), a TV at the other, and is the grandkids playroom when they hangout here (they already know if they touch the speakers they are out of the will!). However, it can seamlessly transition to audio lair mode for a typical evening listening session. It is this mood that mandated the color choice of satin black. In lair mode and dim lighting, I didn't want to see any reflections of the speaker whatsoever. Fortunately, that worked out well since what I originally asked Wilson for was an ultra stealth black with a completely flat or even microsuede-like finish. But the satin blacked works just fine for this purpose. (The previous Alexandrias in silver looked like 2 giant watchtowers even in dim light, which I couldn't abandon fast enough even though it took nearly 5 years!)

You might even notice that the speaker does not have the usual white Wilson logo painted on the tweeter. I told Wilson there is no way I would accept the speaker with a white logo on an all black speaker and that I would use black magic marker if necessary to cover their logo. Fortunately, they obliged and sent me non-logo'd, all black tweeters. Perfect for the lair mode mood.

 

[Steve williams]

I hate break-in. But as we all know, it’s a fact of life in the world of high end audio. Break-in can be a maddening experience since its mostly a waiting exercise. However, during the waiting process, the hobbyist part of me enjoys the part whereby making some adjustments that might be required in order to capture some beneficial gains of the new gear.. The Alexx V’s are a formidable project in this regard. Surprisingly, there are some attributes of the speaker design that make the experience interesting and even illuminating.

There are two properties that require optimization in order to get the best sound from these speakers. The first is speaker placement in the room. Many audiophiles have heard about the room voicing process Wilson recommends for speaker placement in the room. This can be a tedious task that can take hours to days (or longer). In my case, since there are several similarities in design to the Alexandrias, I am using the former speaker position in the room as the basis for speaker placement for the A V’s. If refinement is required, I’ll revisit this in a few weeks after full break-in.

The second important property is the alignment of the drivers once the speakers are in position. Here’s where things can be challenging. Due to their focused array alignment, the drivers may be rather precisely positioned for optimum listening, but the position of the lower and upper midrange drivers and the tweeter is extremely dependent on the distance of each driver from the listener, as well as the listener ear height. The good news is the mechanism of making these adjustments is a very well thought out and engineered as Wilson offers excellent guidance for set-up using a detailed but easy to understand series of charts that indicate the optimum position for each driver. It’s a beautiful system that makes it easier to render finer adjustments than the comparable Alexandria. The refinement and range of the adjustability is impressive. My overall impression is that of a device that is really more like a laboratory reference instrument. The ability to render fine adjustments of each driver is what allows the speaker performance to achieve one of its founding design goals, which is excellent time alignment.

So far, so good, right? Well, sort of. In a perfect world, it would be great if Wilson provided exact measurements for every possible listening distance in their charts. However, there is a pragmatic limitation to such an approach. This means that in some cases, although Wilson provides guidance for a wide range of listener distances, it often does this in units that may not be what is not ideal for your set-up. For example, there are precise settings for listening position of 12 ft and 14 ft. But what if you are at 13 ft? (which is exactly where I am!). Well, this is where your participation becomes important. You will have to extrapolate from the charts to come up with positioning data that is right for a distance that might fall between 2 known distances. The good news is that the small differences in possible configurations can all be evaluated by the only criteria that really matters, which is listening. There is some downside to doing this since it’s a subjective assessment, but so far, I have not found this to be a particularly difficult task. Having done my first drill down session last night, I found that a simple piano recording is a great way to gain confidence in set-up. When the piano sound like a piano, you’re done! The A V is a precision instrument and fine adjustments of 1-2 mm in driver rake or distance really translates to sonic differences that can appreciated rather easily. So while not every possible listener position is spelled out clearly in the Wilson tables, a combination of extrapolation from the tables as well as listening, makes the process quite doable. By the end of last night’s session, I thought I had achieved a very good sound field. However, since I’m still in the throes of break-in. I’m sure there are further refinements ahead. But I’m impressed that the process is straightforward and will ultimately be very satisfactory for optimizing the sound of the speakers in my room.

IIRC the set up charts for all Wilson speakers show the same 2 foot increments.

 

[metaphacts]

IIRC the set up charts for all Wilson speakers show the same 2 foot increments.

Steve, different models have different distance variations as you can see from the 6 inch increments in Tims post above.

When the dealer is finished installing, he can contact Wilson to get the numbers for the exact listening height and listening distance.