All that is wrong with "HiFi"

This is a subject that has driven me crazy, especially since the obsessive drive for more "detail" has risen to insane proportions. But the departure from "musically correct" reproduction didn't begin there.

No. It actually began with the use of high feedback in the pursuit of vanishingly low harmonic distortion. This inturn led to the focus of designing solely by numbers as a dominating criteria instead of listening to what truly sounds good, and what doesn't. This has proven to be a mistake time and time again, but few have seemed to learn from it.

What I hear when I listen to the majority of modern hifi components and systems is a bright, hard and fatiguing presentation, often bordering on severe stridency while being harmonically distorted and/or threadbare, and noticeably lacking in musically engaging qualities. What you end up with is an over-hyped sonic microscope that is overly detailed and brutally revealing of everything that is wrong with the recording.

The problem compounding this is that nearly all of the so-called hifi components that I have heard over the last 40 years clearly displays one or more of the above traits to the level of distraction, especially since the majority of them often possess distorted and/or unrefined high frequencies. You may not be able to hear it as well as I do, but I am really sensitive to it.

To sum up this rant, I would like to say that I am looking to form a conglomerate of audio-oriented manufacturing associates with the goal of producing more musically correct components at reasonable prices.

 

Ahhh ha , so its the mastering to blame for needing a 100K system ...

 

Ahhh ha , so its the mastering to blame for needing a 100K system ...

from recording.... mixing... mastering (re-mastering x ??) ... post production.... the music can really get screwed up.

 

Actually, you guys aren’t better. Take PeterA, he arrogantly argues about grammar and usage. Worse, when confronted with dictionary posts showing my usage was appropriate, he couldn’t let it go. I saw his edited or deleted post take your pick.

That post was so hurtful that I can’t even imagine he has the words to apologize.

I dropped it because people were getting annoyed. I deleted my posts after the initial one which I made in jest.

I apologize to you for insulting you. I was out of line and it was uncalled for.

 

Well I am pretty sure that a 1 million dollar system can still be improved, isn’t it?
I am 99% happy with my system

 

An artist can create a beautiful painting for a few hundred dollars in canvas and paint. It takes a $60,000+ camera system to properly capture and reproduce that beauty.

The same is true for audio. Vinyl is an imperfect medium- stamped in grooves from a third generation copy and yet still competes with theoretically perfect digital playback. Turntables alone that can exceed $100k just to spin a disk- but apparently do it better than everyone else.

 

I dropped it because people were getting annoyed. I deleted my posts after the initial one which I made in jest.

I apologize to you for insulting you. I was out of line and it was uncalled for.

Oh My ;0} …

 

The interesting thing is that I experienced something similar a few years ago. The Detmold University of Music in Germany had an "open day".
You could listen to a performance by a small symphony orchestra in the concert hall; it was being recorded.

View attachment 139313

Then came the extraordinary thing: you could listen to the recording in the control room. The control room uses a wave field synthesis loudspeaker system with over 100 loudspeakers that also generate virtual sound sources.
I sat on the chair this loudspeaker system created a perfect 1:1 illusion, just like in the concert hall, even though there were several hundred meters of digital and LAN cables in between. I have never heard such good music from a recording in my life.
I can recommend that everyone listen to it; it's an experience. That's what I call progress. Oh, I forgot, a similar loudspeaker system is also installed in the large concert hall.
With a program they can change the reverberation times in the concert hall. For example, simulate a large church or other concert halls.
View attachment 139314
Sound and its effect on people are researched there. Musicians and sound engineers (recording) are trained. It is very interesting for anyone who likes to listen to music, I promise.

Erich-Thienhaus-Institut

Tonmeisterausbildung an der Hochschule für Musik Detmold

www.eti.hfm-detmold.de

This sounds extremely interesting.

 

I dropped it because people were getting annoyed. I deleted my posts after the initial one which I made in jest.

I apologize to you for insulting you. I was out of line and it was uncalled for.

You still don’t get it. I don’t particularly care if you insult me. The MQA fight was a back and forth of insults. No big deal.

What I do care about is you trying to be humorous and dredging up one of my most painful memories. My daughter was carried off by a tornado attending a concert in New York State. They found her in a gully.

 

This sounds extremely interesting.

Yes. It sounds excellent thanks to wave field synthesis, the whole room is a sweet spot no matter where you sit. you have to hear it.
Each speaker has its own amplifier channel.
For example, you can say I want to hear more sound from 67 degrees to the left from my sitting position.
a very exciting topic i hope Research is really accelerating so that something like this will soon be available at home within an affordable framework.
exsample genlec speaker wfs sytem at siemens germany

 

An artist can create a beautiful painting for a few hundred dollars in canvas and paint. It takes a $60,000+ camera system to properly capture and reproduce that beauty.

The same is true for audio. Vinyl is an imperfect medium- stamped in grooves from a third generation copy and yet still competes with theoretically perfect digital playback. Turntables alone that can exceed $100k just to spin a disk- but apparently do it better than everyone else.

$60,000 for a digital system capable of reproducing it, much less for a good film Nikon f3 with 80mm lens

 

Yes. It sounds excellent thanks to wave field synthesis, the whole room is a sweet spot no matter where you sit. you have to hear it.
Each speaker has its own amplifier channel.
For example, you can say I want to hear more sound from 67 degrees to the left from my sitting position.
a very exciting topic i hope Research is really accelerating so that something like this will soon be available at home within an affordable framework.
exsample genlec speaker wfs sytem at siemens germany
View attachment 139624

and they appear to be using a $2k Genelec speaker.... Folks.... stop chasing that Unicorn...

 

The thread is about what is wrong with Hi Fi. It is the belief of some that digital is wrong with hi fi. I believe that digital is more resolving, more detailed than analogue,

Top level vinyl and analog tape are highly resolving and detailed.

at the expense of being less musical.

Again, that depends. I agree that analog has an inherent robust musicality that does not as critically depend on getting every detail right. Digital is more vulnerable in that respect, but it can be just as musical as analog. I like to think that mine is, and to me it is as engaging as great analog.

 

from recording.... mixing... mastering (re-mastering x ??) ... post production.... the music can really get screwed up.

Agree ,

Been involved in many studio deals and the finish product never ever sounds anything like the raw tape mixes.

Sad ....

 

If someone knows the recipe to insure a system will have PRaT, please share.

Personally, I don't think this is possible. There are way many variables to consider.

Tom

 

My daughter was carried off by a tornado attending a concert in New York State. They found her in a gully.

That's terrible. Please consider my sincerest condolences to you and yours.

Tom

 

and they appear to be using a $2k Genelec speaker.... Folks.... stop chasing that Unicorn...

Even a blind unicorn gets a squirrel once in a while.

 

Simply step back into the past, buy a Sansui tube or solid state amp, have it reconditioned and add a Altec/JBL studio monitor and simply enjoy music emotionally with all its strengths and weaknesses.
A few months ago I listen to a system like this and I have to be honest and say that to this day there has been no progress, no matter how much money you spend.
That's a harsh judgement on modern hi-fi gear, but unfortunately that's my opinion. I only buy old, good devices that are renewed and I enjoy the great sound.
Exsample

A couple more for you Stephan … Sound quality could be a little better however the message is still clear enough .

 

Top level vinyl and analog tape are highly resolving and detailed.



Again, that depends. I agree that analog has an inherent robust musicality that does not as critically depend on getting every detail right. Digital is more vulnerable in that respect, but it can be just as musical as analog. I like to think that mine is, and to me it is as engaging as great analog.

Read and consider my second paragraph in the entry you are quoting (216). Do you recognise Sisyphus in yourself?

 

A couple more for you Stephan … Sound quality could be a little better however the message is still clear enough .

This is due to the special iron that Sansui uses, they have a special tone.
Similarly good from Japan are uesugi brothers amps, for me one of the best push pull and triode amps I ever heard.

 

If someone knows the recipe to insure a system will have PRaT, please share. I worked for years in the 80s and 90s to get PRaT with my vinyl setup. Until 2021 I used digital for background music and to warm up the stereo but serious listening was always with vinyl. Now I'm thrilled to have it all with both vinyl and digital.

Not surprised. For the recipe, get rid of those speakers, and find better ones that reflect both PRaT and vinyl qualities.