All that is wrong with "HiFi"

[MarcelNL]

Tamura makes great transformers/chokes, however there are more companies capable of that. More specifically, output transformers are not what is wrong with HIFI ;-)
Cheap execution of great ideas is an issue IMHO, and poor listening reference combined with a perceived need to use speakers that can impossibly perform well for the expectations buyers seem to have.

 

[Argonaut]

Tamura makes great transformers/chokes, however there are more companies capable of that. More specifically, output transformers are not what is wrong with HIFI ;-)

I don’t recall anyone posting to that effect of late ?

 

[MarcelNL]

I don’t recall anyone posting to that effect of late ?

I do...post 259 and such

 

[Argonaut]

I do...post 259 and such

Could you elaborate ?

I am referring to your comment “ More specifically, output transformers are not what is wrong with HIFI ;-) “

No one has posted to that effect !

 

[MarcelNL]

I'll try, to me it was a clear link to the topic...'what is wrong with HIFI'

The quality of output transformers differ, but using one or not is IMHO not a factor of high importance in HIFI being right or wrong...it's quality of execution that is.
There are many ways to skin a cat and all that, I've heard nice SS amps , horrible tube amps with and without output transformer, and great tube amps with and without output transformer.

 

[Argonaut]

Thank you for the elaboration … makes more sense now , however as per my above , the slight tangent into transformer quality wasn’t germain to the OP as nobody inferred as such , merely shooting the breeze re Japanese Iron.

 

[TonyW]

What's wrong with hifi? Absolutely nothing.

Listening to music on my stereo rig gives me more pleasure day to day than anything else I own. Sure I have a lot of money sunk into my rig. I have the means to spend more but that's tempered by my midwestern upbringing. My siblings just shake their heads. They agree it sounds good but I would never tell them what it really costs. The best part is I listen now and just enjoy the music. I don't sit there thinking about what a better amp, better speakers, etc would sound like as in decades past.

Each person must find their own path to the sound they desire. It can be a modest system or some massive high powered deluxe maximum force rig in a gigantic mansion. That's what is great about this hobby.

The old maxim still holds true: Caveat Emptor.

 

[wil]

Read and consider my second paragraph in the entry you are quoting (216). Do you recognise Sisyphus in yourself?

Apparently it bothers you that Al is satisfied with the music he hears from his system?

 

[MarcelNL]

what is it that things seem to get so personal so fast here?


there is nothing wrong with hifi, there is nothing wrong with espresso either yet it irks me that the majority of people are no longer able to discern a fresh roast (let alone a good one) from supermarket preground stuff a year old.

I think are similarities, WE humans seem to have lost touch with how stuff ought to sound

 

[Rensselaer]

Apparently it bothers you that Al is satisfied with the music he hears from his system?

You can misinterpret any way you want but I will try to explain it to you as you obviously have never read that essay by Camus.

If you have ever upgraded, or attained any goal only to find it didn't fulfil you as you had hoped, then you are like Sisyphus, whose life is happily spent in the process of pushing the bolder up the hill (upgrading). It is an analogy.

Perhaps it started with a little red wagon that you wanted to pull your toys/dog/water anything up and down the sidewalk with. You told your parents if I could just get this particular little red wagon I wouldn't pester you for anything else ever again. I would be happy forever. Then when the little red wagon doesn't satisfy like you thought, your better informed self sees clearly now that a new chopper-style bicycle is obviously what you need to make you happy forever. Then a 10-speed racing bike, a mountain bike, a scooter, a car, a different girlfriend, someone else's girlfriend, a different job, a college education, a nicer house, a sports car, a better DAC, a better transport, new interconnects, a different better performing DAC, a different better performing transport, new speakers, new interconnects, Hi-Def capability, streaming, better amplifier, more power amplifier to drive your inefficient speakers, then a low-powered valve amplifier to tame harsh sounding Hi-Def DAC and transport, and of course large sensitive horn speakers are necessary because of the low power output of the SET amp, a dedicated power supply to a dedicated listening room! etc., etc., etc.

You read up every article you can find on what you think you need to be fulfilled. You go to hi fi shows and compare the best out there to help you decide. You pull the trigger and buy it. You plug it into your system and think, this can't be right, this doesn't sound like the one at the hi fi show, it must be my streamer/transport/speakers/interconnect/amplifier/all that needs upgrading as well. After a second mortgage and informing your kids funding for their college education is up to them, you upgrade everything. Sounds great!, for awhile, then? You realise that had Wadex been around when you bought your whatever, you would have bought Wadex. How could you have known then that one day they would come out with a digital replay system that could never be improved upon? Etc., etc., etc.

 

[wil]

Where did you mention the Camu interpretation of Sisyphus before just now?

The original Greek myth that everyone knows is hardly happy — only tragic.

Maybe you see the Audiophile journey as absurd and hopeless. I don’t. And even if I did, I wouldn’t go out of my way to project it on another’s experience.

 

[Rensselaer]

Where did you mention the Camu interpretation of Sisyphus before just now?

The original Greek myth that everyone knows is hardly happy — only tragic.

Maybe you see the Audiophile journey as absurd and hopeless. I don’t. And even if I did, I wouldn’t go out of my way to project it on another’s experience.

See my entry 216 in this thread. Oh, and it is Camus. He described a situation where all falls short of the glory of God whereas I am being slightly less teleological (depending upon how you view your music system).

 

[Lee]

I think what drives me personally and many others is the journey. I love two aspects of the hifi journey:

1. The increasing performance of gear over time. It’s fascinating to me how small changes can bring significant improvements in realism.

2. Having like-minded friends that I can discuss this with, hang out with, and occasionally disagree with. Friends to go to trade shows with, visit dealer events with, and educate younger family with on the joys of better music reproduction.

It’s a very satisfying and rich hobby. I’m always meeting new people and learning something.

 

[Rexp]

What's wrong with hifi? Absolutely nothing.

Listening to music on my stereo rig gives me more pleasure day to day than anything else I own. Sure I have a lot of money sunk into my rig. I have the means to spend more but that's tempered by my midwestern upbringing. My siblings just shake their heads. They agree it sounds good but I would never tell them what it really costs. The best part is I listen now and just enjoy the music. I don't sit there thinking about what a better amp, better speakers, etc would sound like as in decades past.

Each person must find their own path to the sound they desire. It can be a modest system or some massive high powered deluxe maximum force rig in a gigantic mansion. That's what is great about this hobby.

The old maxim still holds true: Caveat Emptor.

Perhaps you help the OP out by recommending a modest system (digitally sourced) that delivers what he wants (musical sound)?

 

[stirlingtrayle]

Yes. It sounds excellent thanks to wave field synthesis, the whole room is a sweet spot no matter where you sit. you have to hear it.
Each speaker has its own amplifier channel.
For example, you can say I want to hear more sound from 67 degrees to the left from my sitting position.
a very exciting topic i hope Research is really accelerating so that something like this will soon be available at home within an affordable framework.
exsample genlec speaker wfs sytem at siemens germany
View attachment 139624

I'm sure there is very interesting research and hopefully useful conclusions will come from this system. And I'm sure there could also be some interesting consumer product solutions. However, getting complicated playback systems that are musically relevant to work in the real world will be extremely daunting. I was interested in how a system like this could be used to achieve the best microphone choice and placement for full orchestral recordings that could be optimized for two-channel playback in the context of capturing the relationship of the orchestra and hall more coherently. I'm not well-versed in recording techniques, so please excuse my ignorance here. But, my extremely limited exposure to live mic feeds while recording and how they relate to sitting, say, 12th-row center, is that the mic feed is great for capturing the musicians up close and personal but not so great in the context of an audience member. Yes, obviously, there are mics to capture the hall as well, but the phase relationships between all these mics must be hell to deal with. I'm not trying to draw fire here, so please don't bombard me with everything wrong with that observation. Believe me, I know I don't know what I don't know...This just seems like an interesting tool that might help ensemble recordings (of any type of music) be more accurately captured in a way that better reflects sitting in front of the musicians in the moment.

 

[TonyW]

Perhaps you help the OP out by recommending a modest system (digitally sourced) that delivers what he wants (musical sound)?

I'm hardly qualified to advise anyone on a modest system. I'm so far over the edge into high end hifi... The last cheap pair of speakers I bought were some HH Scott speakers in 1980.

One time in the 80s I was visiting my parents. I noticed they had bought a Panasonic Stereo Receiver with some speakers. They had the speakers up against the wall. I moved the speakers out away from the wall, made some adjustments and they both thought that sounded really great. The next time I visited them, the speakers were up against the wall.

I try not to spend other people's money. I've been in audio stores where someone on the verge of buying something would ask my opinion. I politely decline. That's because I did that one time in Harry's store in Royal Oak, MI. He chewed me a new one. Rule of life #1: If you try to take someone's lunch away from them, you better be ready for a fight.

 

[hopkins]

Check out the reports of any hifi show and you will find many good recommendations for relatively modestly priced speakers.

At Capital Audiofest, it seems that many found these to be pleasant:

I personally have no opinion about these, not having heard them.

 

[Charles S]

I enjoy the philosophy. Philosophy is at the heart of the high end but so is plain ole good luck. I'm deep down not happy with my MCT500/D1100 combo. It sounds only "good" but I absolutely love my 3500's, the best tube amp by far that I know of. Now I have to chuckle at Michael Fremer. He buys every Wilson Statement speaker that Wilson comes forth with: literally every Maxx, then the XLF, then the Alexx, finally the XVX. I refused the XLF and got a super deal on my XVX by being the first one to purchase one with no audition, just on pure faith. I closed the deal in the Walmart self checkout for my old Alexx plus 180K turnkey.

These Mac An pieces (C-12000 and MCD12000) are light years ahead of their predecessors in both looks and sonics. I have wanted a MC2KW for my Thor for years and but hated the old binding posts and I wanted an updated version. It seemed hopeless. Then the MC2.1KW An arrived and I bought one. Again I got a great deal on all the gear because I was the first. I totally low balled at 70K plus trade in's and it took them a total of 3 minutes. It's absolutely beautiful and it is a beast. It's the only Mac amp that can handle my Thor. You can't believe how much better it is than a 1.25KW until you hear it. And it is absolutely gorgeous and absolutely massive, intimidating.

Philosophy is wonderful but it's better to be lucky.

Amps: McIntosh: MC3500MKII (2); MC1.25KW (2); MC2.1KW An
Preamp: C-12000 An
Sources: MCD12000 An; MVP881; MVP851; MR87; Marantz 510LV; Lenovo Yoga laptop
Speakers: Wilson Chronosonic XVX
Sub-Woofer: Wilson Thor’s Hammer; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables Main System AQ: WEL Signature speaker cables; 24’ balanced IC; balanced 1-meter Dragon IC ; WEL Signature digital, Coffee digital coaxial cables; Diamond optical (2); Diamond USB; Dragon (5 HC, 3 source cords); Thunder & Monsoon power cords
Cables Subwoofer System AQ: Redwood speaker cable; Wolf balanced subwoofer IC; Wind balanced IC to ActivXO; Hurricane HC; Firebird HC; Firebird Source; Dragon HC, power cords
Power Conditioners: AQ Niagara 7000; Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines.
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals; Bassocontinuo McIntosh Ultra Feet; X-material plinth
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD)
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes

 

[Lagonda]

Check out the reports of any hifi show and you will find many good recommendations for relatively modestly priced speakers.

At Capital Audiofest, it seems that many found these to be pleasant:

I personally have no opinion about these, not having heard them.

Thank you for showing his face at the beginning at the video, saves me from accidentally watching another Jay video.

 

[Tonari]

It is not so fun to be in the hobby when you don’t know what you’re looking for. However after a while (and many mistakes) you get to know what kind of sound you like and what type of components you need. For example you may reach the conclusion that you need SET amps, HE speakers and Vinyl. Then the upgrade path when needed becomes much easier simply because the choice between gears has been narrowed quite a lot, in other words the path is easier to follow because you have a direction where to look at. At least that’s my experience.