All that is wrong with "HiFi"

[Kcin]

My nephew is into electronics, knows a great deal more about it than I, and sent me the following video for reasons that elude me. The video is of a damaged phono stage being diagnosed and repaired. The phono stage is by Tom Evans Audio Design and is called the "Master Groove". The repairman says/claims that it sells for £25,000.00 (his SR on his web page does).

As I said, I do not know much about electronics but looking at the device as he diagrams it out and finds the fault, I am not sure what the price entails. I think build cost is mostly in the pretty box that it comes in.

Please, those who understand electronics, have a gander at this YouTube video and let me know if you think the design/parts warrant the price or not. If not, then the pretty casement is the most expensive part and is where I think HiFi has gone astray.

Tom Evans "MasterGroove"

I think the comments on the build in the video say it all.

The chassis itself is a Chinese one that is available for anyone to silkscreen or build their project in on ebay. Something like this:

Douk Audio Aluminum Chassis for Tube Amplifier Preamp Enclosure W430×D330×H95mm | eBay

Nobsound & Douk Audio. Douk Audio / Nobsound / Little Bear etc. Tube Amplifier. Audio Amplifier. Digital Amplifier. Headphone Amplifier. Oscilloscope Tube Clock. Tube Preamp.

www.ebay.com

The construction techniques and mechanical assembly are hobbyist amateur at best- and that's being generous. No wonder the boards broke loose in transit.

The use of OP amps at 50cents a piece for something like this is debatable even in the stacked configuration this is built upon. Lots of very expensive phono preamps use OP amps and if the result is good then who am I to argue - however, most would expect a lot more than an OP amp at this price. There are some engineers that would argue the OP amp is the best way to deal with the phono level signal. I wouldn't be one of them.

Sanding off the identifiers on the parts is so 80's but why would you want your client to know they're being charged this amount for a bagful of 50 cent parts.

The requirement to match and test each one is very time consuming - but once you have a jig set up you can do it quite easily- monotonous -but easy.
It really looks like it was put together in a shed. It should be embarrassing for the manufacture to have the chassis exposed like this.YMMV.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Its a very labor intensive design with some inexpensive parts and cost in top tier Audio is not based on production cost , think Jewelry plus1 ..

 

[TonyW]

Caveat Emptor.

Price, Performance, Pedigree- the three P’s of guidance for buyers.

The market and these forums generally sift out the poor products but still painful learning experiences all of us go through in this hobby.

 

[DasguteOhr]

My nephew is into electronics, knows a great deal more about it than I, and sent me the following video for reasons that elude me. The video is of a damaged phono stage being diagnosed and repaired. The phono stage is by Tom Evans Audio Design and is called the "Master Groove". The repairman says/claims that it sells for £25,000.00 (his SR on his web page does).

As I said, I do not know much about electronics but looking at the device as he diagrams it out and finds the fault, I am not sure what the price entails. I think build cost is mostly in the pretty box that it comes in.

Please, those who understand electronics, have a gander at this YouTube video and let me know if you think the design/parts warrant the price or not. If not, then the pretty casement is the most expensive part and is where I think HiFi has gone astray.

Tom Evans "MasterGroove"

mend it mark is one of the best YouTube repair channels ever. The guy is incredible, he replaces missing parts, buttons, switch housing parts. Even switches thyt are no longer available and whose contact surfaces are damaged are repaired. Whether it's mechanical or electrical, he repairs everything. I like watching his videos, you can learn a lot from him.

 

[TonyW]

Its a very labor intensive design with some inexpensive parts and cost in top tier Audio is not based on production cost , think Jewelry plus1 ..

The luxury watch industry. I bought an expensive watch in 1994. I still have it. Spent $1000 ten years ago to have it serviced. Worn it maybe two dozen times since. Sits in an auto winder and I see it’s starting to lose time again. I began reading and learning more about luxury watches back then. You know, the entry level watches of many high end brands use movements made by outside suppliers such as IWC. Back in the 90’s a $3000 watch, for example likely had a $300 movement inside. But the outside, the packaging was very nice. After all, the appeal of a fine mechanical watch isn’t about quartz accuracy, it’s about looks and feel. These days my $800 watch shows me text, emails, weather, heart rate and Blood Oxygen Levels. What a bargain and it has a sapphire crystal to boot.

 

[bonzo75]

The luxury watch industry. I bought an expensive watch in 1994. I still have it. Spent $1000 ten years ago to have it serviced. Worn it maybe two dozen times since. Sits in an auto winder and I see it’s starting to lose time again. I began reading and learning more about luxury watches back then. You know, the entry level watches of many high end brands use movements made by outside suppliers such as IWC. Back in the 90’s a $3000 watch, for example likely had a $300 movement inside. But the outside, the packaging was very nice. After all, the appeal of a fine mechanical watch isn’t about quartz accuracy, it’s about looks and feel. These days my $800 watch shows me text, emails, weather, heart rate and Blood Oxygen Levels. What a bargain and it has a sapphire crystal to boot.

The watch industry is very different to audio. Today’s watches are rarely used for seeing time, mostly for other stuff. Guess today’s speakers are also rarely used to listen to music, mostly for looks, pictures, and other stuff.

Ps: in smart watches, the only thing I find useful is the VO2 max, the rest is useless data. Garmin is useful if you are an extreme athlete doing sports in areas with poor connection

 

[MarcelNL]

it's not the parts that usually command the list price, there should be a relation yet its the hours of trying and tinkering that are costly, especially in high end since those cost are not diluted over thousands of pieces.

ultimately it's a simple equation, if you think a rolex is worth the asking price you pay up...it's for sure not worth it in parts and labour


High end serves the same purpose for many, 'I want that bespoke turntable in white marble and gold, fine that the offering price is 200K' and it's made knowing that it'll likely never spin a record.

 

[Rensselaer]

The luxury watch industry. I bought an expensive watch in 1994. I still have it. Spent $1000 ten years ago to have it serviced. Worn it maybe two dozen times since. Sits in an auto winder and I see it’s starting to lose time again. I began reading and learning more about luxury watches back then. You know, the entry level watches of many high end brands use movements made by outside suppliers such as IWC. Back in the 90’s a $3000 watch, for example likely had a $300 movement inside. But the outside, the packaging was very nice. After all, the appeal of a fine mechanical watch isn’t about quartz accuracy, it’s about looks and feel. These days my $800 watch shows me text, emails, weather, heart rate and Blood Oxygen Levels. What a bargain and it has a sapphire crystal to boot.

I think several Swiss watchmakers use ETA movements in their less expensive models. The better IWC models (Portuguese and Ingenieur for example) certainly have in-house movements. Many believe (myself included) that IWC is one rung above Rolex in quality/desirability. I bought a beat up IWC Yacht Club in Turkey some years back. It had the in-house Pellaton winding mechanism (winds when rotating in either direction) and a gold case. I sent it to IWC in Schauffhousen and they completely overhauled it. Cleaned everything and replaced every bit that was worn with NOS bits. Even filled in the scratches with new gold and polished like new. I then put on a custom strap of dogfish/stingray in Navy blue (to match the Yacht Club theme), gold hardware to match the watch. It was certainly one of my favourite watches of all time, but didn't keep accurate time.

The beauty of the mechanical watch to me is not its accuracy, but rather is the idea that somebody figured out how to make one from the dirt we live on. Smelting metal from ore, hammering out sheets, cutting microscopic gears with mathematical precision that interplay perfectly (and with astounding accuracy when you consider it is just a small spring loaded machine), using gem stones as bearings, tensioned metal strips into springs that store energy (never needs batteries), creating a beautiful to look at, self winding timepiece that gains/looses less than 2 seconds a day and will last for generations ... what a wonder man is!

 

[Rexp]

And meanwhile no one here can recommend a $1000 per component, musically correct, digitally sourced system.

 

[TonyW]

Did you not notice this is the what’s best forum not the what’s cheap forum?

And meanwhile no one here can recommend a $1000 per component, musically correct, digitally sourced system.

Sorry, couldn’t help myself.

Frankly, I can enjoy listening to music on my mid fi Marantz home theater system or in my car. No problem. But when I sit down to listen to my high-end hi-fi, it is just a special time and the music carries me away.