All that is wrong with "HiFi"

[andromedaaudio]

When you know, you know.

Audio reproduction evaluation is not physics.
Its all subject to our ears / interpretation

" Physics reveals objective truth. Mathematics reveals objective truth. Without objective truth, science couldn't exist at all."

FYI you confirmed exactly my earlier comment, see below

 

[andromedaaudio]

For the absolute truth on the matter you might wanna check out the Horn / Set section

my earlier statement

 

[Rexp]

How did it improve the actual recording?
Do you mean that you like the MQA equalised sound better than the original?

Unfortunately some digital recordings are distorted, they sound nothing like the original analog sound. In some but not all cases MQA filters out this distortion.

 

[andromedaaudio]

@ Peter

Truth / Illusions

 

[MarcelNL]

Unfortunately some digital recordings are distorted, they sound nothing like the original analog sound. In some but not all cases MQA filters out this distortion.

SO you are saying that a poor digital recording can be smoothed out by MQA? That means you do not want MQA anywhere near good digital recordings IMHO...I rather stay away from poor recordings than having to use MQA for anything in the signal chain.

 

[SoundMann]

Meaning Horns+SET amps provide a correct reproduction?

With analog.

 

[PeterA]

This is still an ongoing unsolved discussion .
Basically the raison d etre of an audio discussion forum.
Keeps everybody busy

For the absolute truth on the matter you might wanna check out the Horn / Set section

@ Peter

Truth / Illusions



View attachment 139801

Back to the OP. There was once a clear target. It has gotten lost.

 

[Rt66indierock]

Can someone explain to me why the hate for MQA ?
To me it’s not about a format war it plays without total unpacking completely
I don’t have a dog in the fight and
there are many MQA albums that really sound great.
There special sauce does not matter to me but a great sound does
it’s free to use so where or why is the hate coming from?
I’m sorry if I am ignorant to why.

You are demonstrating one of the problems of HiFi. How many times do we need to explain something? Every question and point in your post have been asked and answered years ago.

 

[Rt66indierock]

I agree. RH is friend of mine. We both own XVX and we totally agree it is the finest sounding speaker we have ever heard. He is Editor and Chief of TAS, not just some reviewer. I have great respect for him, and he is just a very kind person who is quite humble. I think these folks have a right to their own opinion. I don't know anything about MQA because McIntosh doesn't support the format. I do USB/FLAC with hdtracks mostly 24 bit/96-192K, but also DSD64. This format is quite comparable to SACD. I have plenty of identical albums on SACD's and can compare the 24/96-192 format to them by listening to the same tracks at identical levels. Most of the time it's a tossup or I prefer the download.

I trust McIntosh that they have evaluated MQA and for whatever reason have chosen not to support it, but they have chosen to heavily support SACD and USB/computer audio as well as cd and vinyl. But I also trust and respect Robert, John, Peter and Lee's ears and other's concerning MQA. I honestly don't understand what this argument is all about. I hope that MQA survives, and it probably will although I will unfortunately never hear the format.

Amps: McIntosh: MC3500MKII (2); MC1.25KW (2); MC2.1KW An
Preamp: C-12000 An
Sources: MCD12000 An; MVP881; MVP851; MR87; Marantz 510LV; Lenovo Yoga laptop
Speakers: Wilson Chronosonic XVX
Sub-Woofer: Wilson Thor’s Hammer; Wilson ActivXO Stereo Electronic Crossover
Cables Main System AQ: WEL Signature speaker cables; 24’ balanced IC; balanced 1-meter Dragon IC ; WEL Signature digital, Coffee digital coaxial cables; Diamond optical (2); Diamond USB; Dragon (5 HC, 3 source cords); Thunder & Monsoon power cords
Cables Subwoofer System AQ: Redwood speaker cable; Wolf balanced subwoofer IC; Wind balanced IC to ActivXO; Hurricane HC; Firebird HC; Firebird Source; Dragon HC, power cords
Power Conditioners: AQ Niagara 7000; Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines.
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals; Bassocontinuo McIntosh Ultra Feet; X-material plinth
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD)
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes

So, Robert Harley is your friend and likes the same speakers okay, I guess. But he is still just an MQA shill based on what he wrote. He was called out specifically by a grammy winning mastering engineer at the Los Angeles Audio Show in 2017. I was in the same row.

McIntosh chose not to implement MQA for good technical and sound quality reasons. The hardware companies that implemented MQA did so because customer pressure was created by Stereophile and The Absolute Sound.

We stopped MQA cold. MQA was LTD liquidated. Tidal Music is on its last legs. And if Lenbrook tries to launch a streaming service with MQA we will crush it.

You wouldn’t believe the positive response I got in high end audio when I said my goal is the liquidation of MQA Ltd in 2016. I was the perfect person for the job. No conflicts and I was around digital audio and video when it was just a theory in the United States. The final step the compete exit from the market of MQA.

 

[Al M.]

McIntosh chose not to implement MQA for good technical and sound quality reasons.

Good for them, kudos!

The hardware companies that implemented MQA did so because customer pressure was created by Stereophile and The Absolute Sound.

Yes, precisely. In a cowardly fashion caving in to the customer instead of taking a principled stand.

 

[Tangram]

Meanwhile I’m sitting in my cozy basement on a grey November Saturday in Toronto enthralled by the sound coming from a 100+ year old technology. Nothing wrong with that.

I’d much rather spend my audio budget getting one format to sound its best, rather than create a multi-headed monster. I can’t understand how it’s possible to optimize a system for more than one format, especially in a world where, apparently, moving a speaker a fraction of a millimetre has a profound impact on the sound.

 

[Al M.]

I’d much rather spend my audio budget getting one format to sound its best, rather than create a multi-headed monster.

Agreed. For me it's physical CD playback. I'll get into streaming once I have to, which is not yet by quite a bit.

 

[twitch]

I have found that the consumption of quality alcohol while listening to music makes even my system sound superb......

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...cost-effective and enjoyable. It's a win-win!

 

[Lee]

With all due respect Lee, this statement is likewise nebulous: you actually are saying that you et aliae believe that your friend's equalising algorithm actually improves the original recording ?
In other words, MQA improved what was originally captured in the recording...

I respect the belief, but may I suggest we do not confuse belief with reality...

It improves the mastering via filers that limit pre and post ringing among other things; Peter McGrath is a friend and he shares his unencoded and encoded files and they clearly demonstrate this. The MQA encoding definitely improves the sound. I have heard on many recordings. I also make live to two track recordings and was an assistant engineer at Chesky for several years so I have some experience with how all this works.

 

[Lee]

View attachment 139801

I believe this Le Bon quote illustrates the case with MQA.

Early on, some, not all, mastering engineers (many big names were supportive) were worried about MQA taking away their fees for mastering for different formats so they were natural MQA enemies. As well, some competing and far less successful codec designers on the then Computer Audiophile were jealous. This formed an unholy alliance that really added a lot of confusion, misinformation, and to be fair some elements of truth on some things and they created a tidal wave (no pun intended ) of ill will toward MQA. And honestly I feel that Chris Connaker knew his website was benefitting from the MQA religious war on traffic as well so moderation was not neutral. I did my best to counter some of the criticism of MQA on that forum but I was subject to endless personal attacks and was banned twice.

On the other hand, you had well-regarded technical people at the major labels who approved it for distribution. You also had two very good guys in Robert Harley and John Atkinson whjo listened to the sonics and found it to be an improvement. Separately Peter McGrath started using it on his recordings and found it valuable.

One can certainly disagree on the authentication process of MQA but the fact is MQA never implemented any evil digital rights management. And it was clearly a mistake for MQA to not explain at the launch that the process was audibly lossless and not purely lossless.

It’s like our national politics in many ways. Things and people are deemed “controversial” but when you dig into the actual facts, you find there is a genuine contrarian opinion with merits to its argument.

I can only urge members here to have an honest listen and decide for themselves.

If you don’t like It then definitely check out Qobuz. I love that service for streaming and can highly recommend the sound quality.

 

[PeterA]

I was talking to a friend the other day who is not involved much with Audio forums, but he does have a great deal of knowledge and experience in the hobby. He told me that he thinks the problems with hi-fi are increasingly inefficient speakers and streaming. In other words, the direction in which we seem to be heading.

 

[treitz3]

Hi, Peter. With all due respect, if my streaming rig equals and sometimes exceeds (recording/version dependent) that of a quite robust CD playback, then why would streaming be any issue?

Tom

 

[meistersinger57]

I have found that the consumption of quality alcohol while listening to music makes even my system sound superb......

...

 

[PeterA]

Hi, Peter. With all due respect, if my streaming rig equals and sometimes exceeds (recording/version dependent) that of a quite robust CD playback, then why would streaming be any issue?

Tom

Respectfully, I was sharing my friend’s opinion. It sounds like you disagree with his opinion. That’s fine. I told him about the thread and he told me what he thought was wrong with hi-fi.