All that is wrong with "HiFi"

This is a subject that has driven me crazy, especially since the obsessive drive for more "detail" has risen to insane proportions. But the departure from "musically correct" reproduction didn't begin there.

No. It actually began with the use of high feedback in the pursuit of vanishingly low harmonic distortion. This inturn led to the focus of designing solely by numbers as a dominating criteria instead of listening to what truly sounds good, and what doesn't. This has proven to be a mistake time and time again, but few have seemed to learn from it.

What I hear when I listen to the majority of modern hifi components and systems is a bright, hard and fatiguing presentation, often bordering on severe stridency while being harmonically distorted and/or threadbare, and noticeably lacking in musically engaging qualities. What you end up with is an over-hyped sonic microscope that is overly detailed and brutally revealing of everything that is wrong with the recording.

The problem compounding this is that nearly all of the so-called hifi components that I have heard over the last 40 years clearly displays one or more of the above traits to the level of distraction, especially since the majority of them often possess distorted and/or unrefined high frequencies. You may not be able to hear it as well as I do, but I am really sensitive to it.

To sum up this rant, I would like to say that I am looking to form a conglomerate of audio-oriented manufacturing associates with the goal of producing more musically correct components at reasonable prices.

 

What do you think of the 'color'of the sound using batteries? i found it usually sounds 'gray', yet it depends on what battery... most batteries are slow to deliver power, not all batteries are made equal and all that ;-)

It just sounds cleaner and clearer with better depth and instrument separation…nothing ultra dramatic but an improvement nonetheless. I guess the streamer has fairly constant power needs and so the need for fast fluctuations current demand is likely not there.

 

It just sounds cleaner and clearer with better depth and instrument separation…nothing ultra dramatic but an improvement nonetheless. I guess the streamer has fairly constant power needs and so the need for fast fluctuations current demand is likely not there.

Is that a streamer as in end point after a server?

My experience is that a device that acts as bit pusher to a dac without front end requires gigantic peak power capabilities

I just switched both CPU;s from 1 Ghz to 2 Ghz and the difference is pretty substantial

(just asking out of interest)

 

We stopped MQA cold. MQA was LTD liquidated. Tidal Music is on its last legs. And if Lenbrook tries to launch a streaming service with MQA we will crush it.

Please enlighten us as how is the Tidal Music on its last legs.... They have switched their library to FLAC, and seems to be working fine for me, at least (actually always has, MQA or not, and I ve been a subscriber since the day one) . Company is also seems doing just fine financially.

 

Is that a streamer as in end point after a server?

My experience is that a device that acts as bit pusher to a dac without front end requires gigantic peak power capabilities

I just switched both CPU;s from 1 Ghz to 2 Ghz and the difference is pretty substantial

(just asking out of interest)

No, it’s an “all-in-one” box Bluesound Vault MKI. It is the only device in the BlueSound lineup that took DC input for power. All the others, including later version Vaults, have an AC input for power, indicating a likely switch mode PSU inside. The original Vault doesn’t have that. This makes it very amenable to battery or external linear PSU adaptation. I take the optical output to a reclocker to further electrically isolate it from the system. No electrical ground loop and no signal noise through a copper cable.

 

I need to try some of the newer batteries, but that is for later...my speaker system now is priority nr 1 now the Music server and RCA 70 are working, the Philips full range 60-ies speakers have no reason to sound as good as they do but their days are soon over.

 

This is a subject that has driven me crazy, especially since the obsessive drive for more "detail" has risen to insane proportions. But the departure from "musically correct" reproduction didn't begin there.

No. It actually began with the use of high feedback in the pursuit of vanishingly low harmonic distortion. This inturn led to the focus of designing solely by numbers as a dominating criteria instead of listening to what truly sounds good, and what doesn't. This has proven to be a mistake time and time again, but few have seemed to learn from it.

What I hear when I listen to the majority of modern hifi components and systems is a bright, hard and fatiguing presentation, often bordering on severe stridency while being harmonically distorted and/or threadbare, and noticeably lacking in musically engaging qualities. What you end up with is an over-hyped sonic microscope that is overly detailed and brutally revealing of everything that is wrong with the recording.

The problem compounding this is that nearly all of the so-called hifi components that I have heard over the last 40 years clearly displays one or more of the above traits to the level of distraction, especially since the majority of them often possess distorted and/or unrefined high frequencies. You may not be able to hear it as well as I do, but I am really sensitive to it.

To sum up this rant, I would like to say that I am looking to form a conglomerate of audio-oriented manufacturing associates with the goal of producing more musically correct components at reasonable prices.

I agree!
The symptoms you mention short list, the sound we have now: sterile (artificial), incredible weak, poor depth, fast or up-forward, clinical, bitter, noises in all spectrum. Its impossible someone can enjoy piece of music or any sound frequency with these problems. All that due to digital problem, which did compressed life data to something else and induce a lot noises in playback.

The new generation born in digital era might not aware of problem because their ears adapt only to digital sound, unlike us witness uncompressed analog which is a true reference sound. Many people still not know what is compression doing or its danger, if they do, they will leave it.

I have one wish, we all return to analog world like in mid 1970's. I'm 100% confidence all will be satisfied.

 

the detail is there in digital, it just takes about as much effort as analaog to retrieve it...digital is not the problem, its the typical implementation of it!
The larger issue is lack of reference to how music really sounds...in developers and customers.

 

the detail is there in digital, it just takes about as much effort as analaog to retrieve it...digital is not the problem, its the typical implementation of it!
The larger issue is lack of reference to how music really sounds...in developers and customers.

I see your point. Seems my view in different category, only Digital vs Analog.

 

This YouTube video done by a turntable manufacturer (that some of you may know) about Japanese Kissa listening bars touches on it when he says it is not about the equipment (despite the direction our industry has taken us) or the sound, but the vibe of these places, owner sharing their favourite music.

They are all idiosyncratic, like stepping into someone’s living room, listeners showing total respect, quiet, no multitasking with phones. Quite unlike the direction western listening bars have gone.

 

All discussions on audioforums end eventually in Digital vs Analogue .

Thats life ,can humanity do better ?

 

This YouTube video done by a turntable manufacturer (that some of you may know) about Japanese Kissa listening bars touches on it when he says it is not about the equipment (despite the direction our industry has taken us) or the sound, but the vibe of these places, owner sharing their favourite music.

They are all idiosyncratic, like stepping into someone’s living room, listeners showing total respect, quiet, no multitasking with phones. Quite unlike the direction western listening bars have gone.

It may not be about the equipment, but it seems many of these music bars in Japan have similar systems. These owners are sharing their passions with like minded souls. I doubt there is any bickering. It must be wonderful.

 

All discussions on audioforums end eventually in Digital vs Analogue .

Thats life ,can humanity do better ?

The original poster complaint about modern hifi components being bright, hard and fatiguing ... , over the last 40 years, which begin in 1984 at CD launch. I assumed he is refereeing to digital, as always sound bright and not musical.

 

The original poster complaint about modern hifi components being bright, hard and fatiguing ... , over the last 40 years, which begin in 1984 at CD launch. I assumed he is refereeing to digital, as always sound bright and not musical.

Wadax ended that pretty much imv.
i ve got my system exactly how i want it to be , nothing wrong with Hifi
Next year a wadax Studioplayer probably and may be for fun a Torqueo / Ikeda TT

 

All discussions on audioforums end eventually in Digital vs Analogue .

Thats life ,can humanity do better ?

Apparently not some of the humanity occupying audiophile forums who have never heard, nor perhaps want to hear, how musical the best digital systems are today— including from streaming. It’s as if they must keep stating their analog v. digital worldview over and over for fear it will collapse on itself.

 

Apparently not some of the humanity occupying audiophile forums who have never heard, nor perhaps want to hear, how musical the best digital systems are today— including from streaming. It’s as if they must keep stating their analog v. digital worldview over and over for fear it will collapse on itself.

Yes, maybe there is some insecurity about their analog world view involved -- or maybe it's just ignorance. Or bias. Or any combination of those.

While I enjoyed my digital also back then, until almost a decade ago I too was convinced that analog is still better. Given the audible evidence since then I have gradually moved on from that view. I keep enjoying analog in other systems.

 

My reference for above opinion: unamplified live music.

 

...if it wasn't for digital, it's unlikely I would even have a system.

I recognize the ritual of vinyl may be part of the allure, and sure, some folks actually prefer the analog flavor, but as an outsider (gave away vinyl collection long ago), it reads as a more fetishistic pursuit to me.

Like third-wave coffee or antique restoration. Something for everyone, certainly, but sometimes I don't want all the ritualistic, "coffee burlesque" of the barista...just a great cuppa joe, and on with life.

Sure, rituals connect us with history and honor the past, which is all very, very groovy, but it may not be the only path to the top of the sonic mountain. Carry on.

 

come to think of it, the root cause may well be the generation before us who started buying cheapo 'all in one' sets of gear that sounded like wet cardboard followed by the Bose milk carton speakers that sounded exacly how they looked and now followed by two generations that listen to Sonos or even music blaring from a smartphone speaker and seem unaffected by the horrible sound it makes.

Mandatory music and listening education for all....

 

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I loved Jonathan's post. It's on a topic that we are rarely exposed to on WBF which is a gear oriented web site. Two comment that I would make are:

1) the Japanese culture is unique in so many ways, but the deep reverence that Kissa bar patrons have for listening to music is applied to many other aspects of Japanese culture, not just listening to music. For example, I wonder if Jonathan noticed the pervasive reverence the Japanese have for rain water. In the US, rain water is allowed to just run off of roof tops and buildings onto the street. In Japan, it is collected from every building and home in a specific manner such that it channeled from roof top to drain pipe to ducts to viaducts to reach its ultimate goal which is often streams, rivers, or sewage portals. They do not treat rain water indiscriminately, It is a carefully thought out in civic plans of every village in which simple rain water is accorded much reverence and respect, very much like the reverence shown for listening to music in Kissa bars. This is a beautiful aspect of Japanese culture that we could learn much from.

2) I think Jonathan is wrong when he laments that here in the US and Europe, we do not have the same great reverence for listening as he has observed in Kissa bars. I would remind Jonathan there's a place not too far for his shop in Brooklyn where you can find 2800 people listen in utter reverence and quiet reflection to music almost any night of the week. It's called Carnegie Hall. At Carnegie, or in nearby Geffen Hall (home of the NY Philharmonic), you can hear a pin drop as thousands of people listen in utter reverence to music for several hours. The same thing occurs not only in the great large concert halls of the world, but in smaller recital halls everywhere and across all musical genres. Need we remind Jonathan that we can find the same reverence for serious listening in countless jazz venues in NYC and other clubs across the globe? So as much as I appreciate Jonathans deep respect for Kissa bars, its hardly unique as a place where people observe deep reverence for listening to music. I would also add that for many of us, we experience a deep reverence for listening to music in our own homes in spaces that are probably similar and even smaller in size than many Kissa bars. This doesn't take away from the beautiful description of the Kissa bar experience Jonathan described. But reverence for listening to music is hardly unique to the Kissa bars that are indeed a beautiful aspect of the Japanese culture.

 

Please enlighten us as how is the Tidal Music on its last legs.... They have switched their library to FLAC, and seems to be working fine for me, at least (actually always has, MQA or not, and I ve been a subscriber since the day one) . Company is also seems doing just fine financially.

You can’t take this post back I’ve copied it into Word. Tidal has had no revenue growth since 2020. They have lost money since Jay Z bought it. In December 2023 they laid off 10% of the workforce, they just announced another round of cuts amounting to 25% of the workforce. Block Inc is scaling back investment in Tidal. Employees are told not to mention Jay Z. Jack Dorsey announced a restructuring of the company.

Finally, A Delaware judge said the acquisition of Tidal was by all accounts a terrible business decision.