All that is wrong with "HiFi"

This is a subject that has driven me crazy, especially since the obsessive drive for more "detail" has risen to insane proportions. But the departure from "musically correct" reproduction didn't begin there.

No. It actually began with the use of high feedback in the pursuit of vanishingly low harmonic distortion. This inturn led to the focus of designing solely by numbers as a dominating criteria instead of listening to what truly sounds good, and what doesn't. This has proven to be a mistake time and time again, but few have seemed to learn from it.

What I hear when I listen to the majority of modern hifi components and systems is a bright, hard and fatiguing presentation, often bordering on severe stridency while being harmonically distorted and/or threadbare, and noticeably lacking in musically engaging qualities. What you end up with is an over-hyped sonic microscope that is overly detailed and brutally revealing of everything that is wrong with the recording.

The problem compounding this is that nearly all of the so-called hifi components that I have heard over the last 40 years clearly displays one or more of the above traits to the level of distraction, especially since the majority of them often possess distorted and/or unrefined high frequencies. You may not be able to hear it as well as I do, but I am really sensitive to it.

To sum up this rant, I would like to say that I am looking to form a conglomerate of audio-oriented manufacturing associates with the goal of producing more musically correct components at reasonable prices.

 

I’d like a piece of MIM's upcoming legal fees

Enjoy them while they last.

You really think Toms Evans can afford the legal fees? Maybe go look at his financials?

 

Someone has reposted the original video:

 

I'll tell you what's wrong with hifi. It took me 45 years to achieve a system that sounds this amazing and I have to fight myself to turn it off. What was going to be just one more song turns into another couple of hours of listening. So I need a way to transport this system back in time 30 years, at least so I have more time to enjoy it. But then I'd probably get fired for never showing up for work. There are always trade offs.

 

I have coined a new term for the overdetailed and unmusical systems. I call it hype-fi.

 

I have coined a new term for the overdetailed and unmusical systems. I call it hype-fi.

after perusing a number of audiophile sites poplulated by irascible posters, I call it cranky-fi.

 

Are today's uber-expensive pieces of gear a Veblen good?

"A Veblen good is a good for which demand increases as the price increases due to its exclusive nature and appeal as a status symbol. This runs counter to the prevailing circumstance of demand falling as prices rise. Thus, a Veblen good has an upward-sloping demand curve rather than the typical downward-sloping curve."

 

I have been to two Audio expos over the years. The first time was in 1989 at McCormicks Place across from the CES in Chicago. One of the best times of my life. I found prices breathtakingly high. My favorites were one hotel room with a turntable and a pair of speakers that sounded very musical. Was a lot of fun listening to it. The other was a large set up in the ballroom. Four large Electrostatic panels, 4 large ARC amplifiers, ARC preamp and a turntable. It was like being the conductor of an orchestra- 1:1 size with each and every instrument laid out in front of me in perfect detail. I went to Axpona in 2022. The prices were breathtakingly high and it was a lot of fun hearing all of the different systems. One of my favorite rooms was the big ballroom with the Acora speakers. Big sound from two little granite speakers. Still, wasn't the same experience as in 1989 with the four large panels. My point is that hifi has always been expensive. Back in the day, ie 70s and 80s hifi competed with TV, concerts and travel but we had lots of parties with good music. Today, parties are far fewer and without the loud rock music and far more options for entertainment. This hifi hobby requires commitment. Most of us on these pages know full well the sacrifices made to purchase a piece of hifi gear. It means a new car must come later or eating out less, putting off that medical procedure...

 

after perusing a number of audiophile sites poplulated by irascible posters, I call it cranky-fi.

Why don't you grow up and stop attacking people for expressing an opinion.

 

That's a bit hypocritical, is it not?

Deep breaths....deep breaths.....'tis the season to be merry.

Tom

 

Why don't you grow up and stop attacking people for expressing an opinion.

I'm calling out an attitude that I find unappealing. I don't criticize individuals in my posts. Ad hominem posts are one element of cranky-fi.

 

I'm calling out an attitude that I find unappealing. I don't criticize individuals in my posts. Ad hominem posts are one element of cranky-fi.

Oh right, so you weren't calling SoundMann irascible and cranky just because his opinion of digital is different to yours?

 

Are today's uber-expensive pieces of gear a Veblen good?

... perhaps -- until they are not, and turn into a future trickle down prize or boat anchor? Is there a landfill of past Veblen goods?

 

Are today's uber-expensive pieces of gear a Veblen good?

"A Veblen good is a good for which demand increases as the price increases due to its exclusive nature and appeal as a status symbol. This runs counter to the prevailing circumstance of demand falling as prices rise. Thus, a Veblen good has an upward-sloping demand curve rather than the typical downward-sloping curve."

I think it depends. In our hobby, performance is another metric. Their value depends on how they perform over time relative to alternatives. Rarity is not enough, they must be coveted too in large part because of performance, and if that happens, they will retain their value over time, and may become even more expensive.

 

@ PYP

A veblen good as you say is a statussymbol to impress , iow bling bling.
Most people get bored of it after the initial purchase.

This has nothing to do with good HIFI gear.
Good HIFI is a consumer good which people use / enjoy.
Price is irrelevant

 

Oh right, so you weren't calling SoundMann irascible and cranky just because his opinion of digital is different to yours?

Correct, I was not calling @SoundMann cranky. I share his dislike of "overdetailed and unmusical systems" and did not think he was referring to the means (digital vs. analog) but the end result. One can get an unmusical result from either. And there are a lucky few, with enough space/time/budget/interest/luck, who arrive at a musical result from both in the same setup.

His post made me think about what other trends there are in our hobby and what we might call it.

 

... perhaps -- until they are not, and turn into a future trickle down prize or boat anchor? Is there a landfill of past Veblen goods?

a snarky answer would be: Audiogon. There is some astonishingly expensive stuff for sale there and I always wonder if there is a used market for stuff that costs > $100,000 when it is posted by an individual vs. those that are posted by a hifi establishment to sell their consignments/trade-ins.

 

I think it depends. In our hobby, performance is another metric. Their value depends on how they perform over time relative to alternatives. Rarity is not enough, they must be coveted too in large part because of performance, and if that happens, they will retain their value over time, and may become even more expensive.

Agreed. I believe Veblen was talking about a less informed and conscientious consumer, not a connoisseur. There are some folks in every hobby who simply buy based upon price with an eye toward status, not performance.

@ PYP

A veblen good as you say is a statussymbol to impress , iow bling bling.
Most people get bored of it after the initial purchase.

This has nothing to do with good HIFI gear.
Good HIFI is a consumer good which people use / enjoy.
Price is irrelevant

Agreed that one can enjoy music at all price points, whether that is at home or at a venue. Many years ago, my entire setup cost about the same as my current source does (and when I started the entire setup cost what a current IC costs!). Yet, I enjoyed music just as much.

I do enjoy the visual side of our hobby and appreciate what I consider to be beautiful industrial design [my favorite pieces to admire are turntables, but that is not my audio thing]. The look of my current amps and preamp were what caught my eye. Since I had a DIY version of the designer's work, it got me curious about what his best effort could bring to reproduction of music and the visual was a very nice side benefit.

 

This is due to the special iron that Sansui uses, they have a special tone.
Similarly good from Japan are uesugi brothers amps, for me one of the best push pull and triode amps I ever heard.View attachment 139637View attachment 139638

Hashimoto is continuing the Sansui tradition. It was founded by several engineers who worked at Sansui.

 

I use a "holy grail" 5AR4 (1955 Valvo metal base) in my Incito...these are supposed to run nearly forever.

Hi Brad,

Merry Christmas!

Why did you choose the Valvo rather than an Amperex or a Mullard or a Phillips or something else?

Thank you.

 

Hi Brad,

Merry Christmas!

Why did you choose the Valvo rather than an Amperex or a Mullard or a Phillips or something else?

Thank you.

It is a Philips…just branded Valvo.