Alsyvox - Hi end Munich 2022 - your thoughts

[Rhapsody]

What other panel speakers have you found to be non-involving?

With respect to Alsyvox and to Bob, I wonder if only 30 watts on those panels may be flirting with trouble regarding dynamics and impact.

Hi Ron,

I've said it prior but with 97db you CAN use 30 Watt tube amps on the Raffaello, even on the 94db Botticelli. Depends on the listener and size of the room ie, large space with 30 people in the room at the show. Sure you are not going to get blinding dynamics in this situation.

Almost all Alsyvox users, which there are many, are using a few hundred watts of SS or tube power. 100+ watts lights up the Alsyvox speakers and they can have jaw dropping impact in the bass region, down to the low 20's.

Again I stated this prior, Jadis was supposed to bring JA80s' to Munich, which would have been plenty of power to "light them up". Due to a logistical situation the only amps that became available were the 30 Watt JA30s.

The JA30's did fine and it showed you can make vg sound if not statement sound. Many people loved the sound just as played with the JA30s.

Anyone that is interested in Raffaello's take a trip to the Taiko showroom and hear them with some power driving them. Then let's hear the opinions.

Or visit any of the six RLR's in the US where there are Alysyvox speakers all being driven with high power tubes or SS.

 

[Thundersnow]

What other panel speakers have you found to be non-involving?

With respect to Alsyvox and to Bob, I wonder if only 30 watts on those panels may be flirting with trouble regarding dynamics and impact.

After rewinding back what I heard, I would definitely say so. Of course, this would be most apparent in the bass, which is I suppose something I immediately noticed. With that said, I am a long time owner of many Apogee speakers and have been working with active and passive variants of the good old Apogees for years. A refurbished Diva or Duetta Signature — I prefer their tone over what I’ve heard with Alsyvox. Granted, not the happiest of comparisons, given the vastly different electronics from what I’d usually use for an Apogee speaker.

 

[Rhapsody]

After rewinding back what I heard, I would definitely say so. Of course, this would be most apparent in the bass, which is I suppose something I immediately noticed. With that said, I am a long time owner of many Apogee speakers and have been working with active and passive variants of the good old Apogees for years. A refurbished Diva or Duetta Signature — I prefer their tone over what I’ve heard with Alsyvox. Granted, not the happiest of comparisons, given the vastly different electronics from what I’d usually use for an Apogee speaker.

Try 30 watt the amps on the Apogees. Then try the amps that you are using on the Apogees on the Alsyvox.

All of the Alsyvox models have deep full bodied bass down into the low 20s when driven with medium power tube or SS amps.

Come visit if you are in the US and I will prove it to you.

If you are in Europe and are interested I can recommend a place probably fairly close to you where they can also prove it.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am a long time owner of many Apogee speakers and have been working with active and passive variants of the good old Apogees for years. A refurbished Diva or Duetta Signature — I prefer their tone over what I’ve heard with Alsyvox.

Please, if you would, tell us more detail about the differences in "tone" you are commenting on. What do you mean here by "tone"?

As another point of triangulation are you familiar with Magnepan loudspeakers? How would you compare and describe the tone of Magnepan loudspeakers to what you have heard from Apogees and what you heard from the Alsyvox?

 

[Thundersnow]

Please, if you would, tell us more detail about the differences in "tone" you are commenting on. What do you mean here by "tone"?

As another point of triangulation are you familiar with Magnepan loudspeakers? How would you compare and describe the tone of Magnepan loudspeakers to what you have heard from Apogees and what you heard from the Alsyvox?

I am familiar with the Magnepan speakers — was the owner of 3.6R which I used in stock form and also as a 3.1 -way active with multiple subs.

Let’s start with my definition of tone here. By “tone” in this case I am not talking about the overall balance of the speaker — lows vs. mids vs. highs, nor am I talking about the body (or the lack of thereof) of the planar speakers in general vs. dynamic speakers. By “tone” I am speaking about the area in which planars excel the most — gorgeous mids and highs. With that said, I was slightly surprised to hear a little more harshness than what I‘d like to hear from a planar in the presence region. A slightly less refined sound than what I remember as the sound of a professionally refurbished Duetta Signature. Of course, this is only my impression and I could very well be wrong.

On that note, Maggies, to my ears anyway, had the most amazing true ribbon sound in the highs that I can recall — all the many faults of that speaker notwithstanding.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I am familiar with the Magnepan speakers — was the owner of 3.6R which I used in stock form and also as a 3.1 -way active with multiple subs.

Let’s start with my definition of tone here. By “tone” in this case I am not talking about the overall balance of the speaker — lows vs. mids vs. highs, nor am I talking about the body (or the lack of thereof) of the planar speakers in general vs. dynamic speakers. By “tone” I am speaking about the area in which planars excel the most — gorgeous mids and highs. With that said, I was slightly surprised to hear a little more harshness than what I‘d like to hear from a planar in the presence region. A slightly less refined sound than what I remember as the sound of a professionally refurbished Duetta Signature. Of course, this is only my impression and I could very well be wrong.

On that note, Maggies, to my ears anyway, had the most amazing true ribbon sound in the highs that I can recall — all the many faults of that speaker notwithstanding.

Hope this helps.

Thank you.

 

[Rhapsody]

It's the norm to have varied opinions on different rooms at shows. One man's poison is another man's treasure.

I won't list all of the comments but I've seen probably 20+ comments like the comments below vs.the opinions voiced here, from those that didn't like the sound of Alsyvox at the show. Everyone's opinion is respected.

You can't please everyone although Alsyvox was very pleased with the sound that they made at the show and are enjoying the several requests from distributors and dealers that now want to represent Alsyvox after hearing the Raffaello at the show.

Soundstage Australia

My show notes for the Jadis, Alsyvox and Taiko room read “open, open, open”. Indeed. The sound here projected so naturally and vividly into the room that I was captivated. An acoustic track also presented what was, in my HEM 2022’s experience, the deepest, widest and tallest soundstage. Said soundfield was populated with vivid images in tight focus. The low registers were expertly balanced and, at least while I was there through several tracks, sounded well-matched and integrated to the room. Vocals were sweet, never aggressive and projected with realistic presence. For such large panels, the sense of a performance rather than merely speakers was quite a palpable phenomenon. This is the best I’ve heard the Alsyvox speakers sound.

HiFiPig.

Right next door was what it soon became apparent was a system that really did push all my buttons and that, from my perspective at least fast became the system to beat. The ease and scale of the Alsyvox Raffaello speakers (a dipole planar design) being powered by JADIS JA30 power amplifiers and their I70 preamplifier was just stunningly good, with several other people I talked to around the show making very similar comments. Aiding and abetting this already spectacular system was the €44K Lampizator Horizon DAC (I really do want one of these having owned their BIG 7 for several years) and a Taiko Extreme server. This really is high-end audio at its best and with a sound that I could have just sat and listened to for hours. I’ll talk about JADIS, the French manufacturer later in my wafflings about High End Munich 2022, but they are fast become the amplifiers that really do seem to do it for me. This system will have cost house or very nice motorcar money, but had I the space and the money I’d be beating a path to their door and insisting they take my money and deliver PDQ!

 

[Levitator]

I think the other important factor here is that the speakers at the show (and other components from memory) were apparently brand new - I have zero harshness with my Alsyvox speakers…

 

[Rhapsody]

I think the other important factor here is that the speakers at the show (and other components from memory) were apparently brand new - I have zero harshness with my Alsyvox speakers…

Out of 20+ comments one person thought they were harsh sounding.

 

[Rhapsody]

I am familiar with the Magnepan speakers — was the owner of 3.6R which I used in stock form and also as a 3.1 -way active with multiple subs.

Let’s start with my definition of tone here. By “tone” in this case I am not talking about the overall balance of the speaker — lows vs. mids vs. highs, nor am I talking about the body (or the lack of thereof) of the planar speakers in general vs. dynamic speakers. By “tone” I am speaking about the area in which planars excel the most — gorgeous mids and highs. With that said, I was slightly surprised to hear a little more harshness than what I‘d like to hear from a planar in the presence region. A slightly less refined sound than what I remember as the sound of a professionally refurbished Duetta Signature. Of course, this is only my impression and I could very well be wrong.

On that note, Maggies, to my ears anyway, had the most amazing true ribbon sound in the highs that I can recall — all the many faults of that speaker notwithstanding.

Hope this helps.

Thundersnow,

Thank you for your explanation. May I ask, how long ago did you hear the Duetta Signature that you remember having a little less harshness than the Alsyvox at the show?

Did you hear the Duetta Signature at a show as the Alsvyox? Or in a well set up home/dealer's system? Or ???

It surprises me that in a different room, at a different time, with different power, cables, components/sources that you can remember a slight difference in the harshness from one system to another. Pretty interesting that you can make that comparison.

 

[Thundersnow]

Thundersnow,

Thank you for your explanation. May I ask, how long ago did you hear the Duetta Signature that you remember having a little less harshness than the Alsyvox at the show?

Did you hear the Duetta Signature at a show as the Alsvyox? Or in a well set up home/dealer's system? Or ???

It surprises me that in a different room, at a different time, with different power, cables, components/sources that you can remember a slight difference in the harshness from one system to another. Pretty interesting that you can make that comparison.

I’ve lived with the Duetta for years, as with the Maggies, and I still own a pair of completely restored Apogee Stage speakers.

With regards to Alsyvox, I gave my impression of the sound I heard in that room. So it’s more fair to say I’ve commented on the sound in that room than of the speakers in particular (given the numerous factors that can influence the sound in any given space — acoustics, power, electronics matching, etc.).

With that said, I stand by my comments on what I heard.

 

[morricab]

Out of 20+ comments one person thought they were harsh sounding.

Harsh they most certainly were not. In fact I and my associates thought it was overall too smooth and a bit lacking jump, which we think was down to the match with the Jadis amps. Having heard other models with other amps we have heard them sound livelier in previous shows…

 

[exupgh12]

The Alsyvox room at Munich had good imaging and stage, dynamic, and plenty of emotions and engagement.
the only complaint me, and my friend's had, the sound in the room lacked the bottom octaves.

 

[Rhapsody]

Harsh they most certainly were not. In fact I and my associates thought it was overall too smooth and a bit lacking jump, which we think was down to the match with the Jadis amps. Having heard other models with other amps we have heard them sound livelier in previous shows…

Exactly. I didn't hear it, but I would bet, if anything, it would have sounded to me as you describe.

 

[Rhapsody]

I’ve lived with the Duetta for years, as with the Maggies, and I still own a pair of completely restored Apogee Stage speakers.

With regards to Alsyvox, I gave my impression of the sound I heard in that room. So it’s more fair to say I’ve commented on the sound in that room than of the speakers in particular (given the numerous factors that can influence the sound in any given space — acoustics, power, electronics matching, etc.).

With that said, I stand by my comments on what I heard.

For sure, not a problem to state what you heard. I didn't hear it so I cannot directly comment on the sound other than it was puzzling the way you originally described the harshness it comparison to the Apogees. Nothing more than that.

 

[Rhapsody]

I’ve lived with the Duetta for years, as with the Maggies, and I still own a pair of completely restored Apogee Stage speakers.

With regards to Alsyvox, I gave my impression of the sound I heard in that room. So it’s more fair to say I’ve commented on the sound in that room than of the speakers in particular (given the numerous factors that can influence the sound in any given space — acoustics, power, electronics matching, etc.).

With that said, I stand by my comments on what I heard.

Btw, I owned first Duetta, then Duetta Signature, then Divas/DAX, then Stage, then Slant 6 in the 80's. Loved them all. The Alsyvox have been a second coming and a revelation for me personally, especially with mid 90's sensitive ratings, and not dipping below 3.7-3.8ohms.

Not your cup of tea, but for myself (and not as a dealer, as a user) they are a very special speaker as was and still are the Apogees.

 

[Thundersnow]

Btw, I owned first Duetta, then Duetta Signature, then Divas/DAX, then Stage, then Slant 6 in the 80's. Loved them all. The Alsyvox have been a second coming and a revelation for me personally, especially with mid 90's sensitive ratings, and not dipping below 3.7-3.8ohms.

Not your cup of tea, but for myself (and not as a dealer, as a user) they are a very special speaker as was and still are the Apogees.

Don’t get me wrong, being a huge fan of planar speakers, I won’t have the least bit of problem hearing them again in a different setup when I‘m in NYC

 

[Rhapsody]

Don’t get me wrong, being a huge fan of planar speakers, I won’t have the least bit of problem hearing them again in a different setup when I‘m in NYC

Not trying to sell you Alsyvox etc, but I would enjoy playing my Botticelli X for you when you are in NYC in a non-show set up. Just let me know ahead of time when you will be in the city.....thx
Bob

 

[BillK]

All I can say is I’ve owned a pair of Apogee Caliper Signatures since 1990, rebuilt with Graz ribbons in 2009.

I’ve heard Divas, which I thought were the best sound I’ve ever heard, until I heard the Apogee Full Ranges.

I’ve also listened to Maggies, and the only ones I’ve ever liked were the Tympani III. Ironically a factory demo of the 30.7s was one of the worst sounds I’ve ever heard.

That having been said, Alsyvox has that Apogee magic and they excel in areas where the Apogees fell short like impact and low efficiency.

They won’t be everyone’s cup of tea, of course, but I’ve yet to hear anything I like better, including the Vivid Giya G1 Spirit and the Wilson Alexx V and Chronosonic XVX.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Alsyvox lacking impact, dynamics and not involving... mmm something is a miss there, a very serious miss! Not sure about 30w tube amps but 30w of SS in pure Class A, will give you plenty of impact!

I've heard the Tintorento and Botichelli on two separate occasions at length, with a few legendary amplifiers. One was CJ's ART150 and the other were the Momentum monoblocks. In both cases the Momentum preamp was used with an Esoteric K01XD as the primary source. Cables were a full Nordost Odin loom, interconnects, power cords the whole lot, including the QX units. Talk about impact, dynamics and slam on all factors! it was like the space shuttle launch... the system being driven towards full glory! Top speed, superb attack, thunderous dynamics, plenty of slam factor, and start-stop acceleration was superb! To such an affect, the jump factor was way too much for me or at least I wasn't used to that kind of jump factor... Kept me on the edge of my seat!

Initially, my mate also had CJ's top of the line ART300's driving the Botichelli's, which were overkill, that kind of power is totally unnecessary but oh! My! What a tremendous amount of energy the Alsyvox can handle. Doesn't distort one bit, even at very high levels.

At these levels, dynamic driver types will distort, simply because of the inherent problems of standing waves and drivers being bombarded within the cabinets... the extra energy has no where to escape in sealed boxes, and this extra energy is distortion, which many feel is part of the tonality and "body" of the recording. It isn't! That's distortion and hence panel type speakers don't have any such distortions nor colorations, there's no cabinet/ box for unwanted resonances.

Now he uses the CJ ART300's on his CLX's, and CJ's Class A 160w monoblocks the ART108A's on the upgraded Botichelli-X. This particular system I've not heard as yet. According to his updates, this has been one of the most exciting events of his entire planar life, since owning Maggie's (30.7's) Apogee Diva's (that I bought off him) and the CLX's (which we both own). Claims that the Botichelli-X with just the right combination of amplifiers is truly special!

Hopefully, I'll get to audition in early Feb, then I'll decide.
As for "involvement" is considered, yes there was a certain aspect to it but that's mostly because my listening sessions are way past midnight. Soft to moderate, intimate settings and an enveloping affect is what I experience with full range stats. It's just a personal preference, especially driven with CJ's tube monoblocks modded to 60w of Class A (switchable to Class AB from 80w to 150w).

If I had the means for a second system located in a dedicated room, properly treated, I wouldn't hesitate for one bit on the Botichelli-X, superb stuff indeed! I found them to be full of life, sparkle and the actual even right in front of you, hence nothing lacking whatsoever.

Also remember, if driven by tube amps and the Output tubes are weak... this will lack dynamics, slam/impact and sparkle, it will sound pretty dull. Just worth a mention...

Cheers to Alsyvox!
WOOF! RJ