Alsyvox planars...prepare to sell your Magico's, YG's, Wilson's, Cessaro's. Maggie's, and all others!!

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iansr

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I might get accused of going OT here but I think it’s relevant to anyone with an interest in ribbon based speakers. The RAAL Requisite SRA-1 “Earfield monitors” are causing quite a stir and have really disrupted the headphone market. What people are saying is that it’s not like listening to headphones at all but is akin to putting your head between 2 ribbon speakers, but without all the problems that the room introduces. Consequently I’m very intrigued and despite never having been a regular headphone user I’m seriously interested in these.

So I’d love to hear comments from any Alsyvox / Apogee devotees who have heard the SRA-1s. Anyone?
 

SeagoatLeo

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All electrostats have somewhat of a plastic coloration...its because all the panels are made of....drum roll please...plastic! You can hear a "quack" from conventional drivers made of plastic as well. And you can get a zing from metal ones and in general ceramic ones sound "whitish". Materials colorations are one of the biggest issues with speakers and often the "flavor" of a speaker. I find nearly all ceramic driver based speakers unlistenable because while a plastic coloration is somewhat subtle the problem with ceramic drivers is anything but. One of the most "neutral" materials seems to be carbon fiber but again it is still not silent. Paper also has a character, doped or not, but it is somehow consonant with music, unlike metal and ceramic.

One of the biggest problems I hear with conventional, multi-way speakers is when the speaker is using different materials for each frequency range. For example, a doped paper woofer, a metal, ceramic or plastic midrange and then a metal dome tweeter...all stitched together with a high order crossover. You will hear the coloration contribution from each driver, especially if an instrument bridges two or more of those drivers...just awful and will completely destroy the illusion.

The ear/brain can mask/ignore a constant coloration and once assimilated to you don't really hear it anymore. A speaker with multiple colorations that get excited at different times means they will continually jump out and never become repetitive enough to allow the ear/brain to ignore them. They destroy the sound. You want to talk about coloration of a speaker, THIS, IMO, is the real killer of most cone/dome box speakers. Nevermind the boxes contributions, which are also difficult to ignore because they get excited by only certain frequencies and then jump at you from time to time as a thickening of the sound in the mids unnaturally.

Given the number and degree of colorations in normal cone/dome speakers, I am not at all concerned about a small somewhat plasticky coloration in electrostats. I never said the speakers are coloration free...show me one that is.

Some of the efforts from Wilson and Magico do a nice job of getting the box part to be mostly silent...for Wilson it doesn't seem to sacrifice liveliness but with Magico...they sound relatively dead to me. HOWEVER, it doesn't eliminate the cone cry and tweeter ringing etc. that you get from each driver in the system. That is probably why Wilson finally gave up on Ti Focal tweeter for a "gasp" soft dome. I detest soft dome tweeters though because, while pleasant, sound unrealistic to me. They are in breakup from a few Khz...albeit a "soft" breakup.

IMO, a speaker with uniform distortion will sound less artificial because we can mask something that is uniform...as long as its not too high in level of course. Apogees also sound quite pure even though they also have coloration...but it is uniform as all drivers are the same basic materials.

This is one of the main reasons I left conventional speakers and even after hearing the latest and greatest I can still hear how they are "stitched" together when using disparate materials. Or they use really offensive materials like ceramic drivers, which I have never heard sound right...not Avalon, not Marten design, not Kharma (who dumped them now for carbon fiber derived), not Gauder etc. etc.

The best horns are not completely color free of course but it is minimized to below what I hear from nearly all box speakers AND they have dynamics and liveness that I don't hear from any box speaker.
I had Acoustat Xs, 2&2s, Martin Logan Monolith IIIs and now Legacy Focuses. The 2&2s sounded very good with tube power but I think I went backwards with the MLs. I intend to upgrade my speakers (the least expensive component in my system) with a Von Schweikert higher end model (the Ultra's ceramic cones don't sound whitish), Lumenwhites and the Evolution Acoustics MM2/3s don't sound whitish either. I agree about Magico, having heard about 18X, S and Q models. Smaller WIlsons sounded enjoyable, not so much the larger models. I only comment on what I've heard or owned. The Alsyvox is also a consideration although I haven't heard them, they offer superior bass, dynamics, ease to power and build quality compared to Magnepans (which I like on small ensemble music but not orchestral/rock ). I've heard the 3.7i and 20.7 as well as older models. They're nice, but I wouldn't own them (plus I like my current tube amps).
 
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SeagoatLeo

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What you stated is exactly why we have such diversity of opinions in this hobby. The a'phile who gave you these opinions ( and that's what they are, nothing more or less) believed all that he told you. The a'phile friend of mine, had the exact opposite opinion. Who's right and who's wrong? i suspect that they are both right...and both wrong!
As we all know, speakers can sound different based on ancillary gear, set up and a host of other variables, even on a day to day basis. Your friend probably heard them when they were perhaps newly set up and not totally dialed in...or perhaps not; my friend heard them when they were totally dialed in and at their best...or perhaps he just didn't hear what your friend heard...and vice versa!
ONLY way to know for sure, is to listen for oneself in one's own system. Like all gear under consideration, IME.
At an LA/Orange Audio group in Woodland Hills store, a brand new Maggie 3.7i and 20.7 with brand new Shunyata Research cabling with new SS gear (not McIntosh). The sound was barely listenable/awful. I had heard the 3.7i prior to the meeting at the same store, with cheaper cabling, a theater McIntosh integrated receiver and windows along the side wall (office space). The 3.7i's sounded very good in the latter setup. So, the Alsyvox may have suffered like the Maggie's did at that store. P.S. I've heard some of the Lyras and owned a Lydian back in the 1990s. Quite nice cartidge without a rising high end. Bettered by the Benz Ruby3 I replaced it with but at 3X the price.
 

Ron Resnick

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That is interesting. From my experience with Magnepans, unless they are being severely under-driven, I would've thought it would be difficult to make them sound barely listenable/awful.
 

SeagoatLeo

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That is interesting. From my experience with Magnepans, unless they are being severely under-driven, I would've thought it would be difficult to make them sound barely listenable/awful.
Take my word for it (and about 150 members of the LA/Orange Co. audio society), they sounded awful. They shouldn't have been set up new (day before taken out of their containers) with new cabling. The solid state pre and amps were inadequate and it could be that they were underdriven as well. What a mess. I've heard maggies dozens of times and really liked the big Tympany Ds at my friends home, the 3.7i's I heard at the store with more ordinary room and equipment (my music) and at local shows set up by this audiostore.
 

Duke LeJeune

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Hopefully not without hearing them first. To round out the thread with (alternate) opinions from associates of mine who attended RMAF:
  • Terribly off timbre; for example: stringed instruments sounded plasticky.
  • Utterly lifeless.
  • Tonally very dark.
  • Non-existent bass impact. (Apparently the dealer was explaining "real bass" and then when the bass hit, the room chuckled. The descriptor "mouse fart" was used.)
I'd say based on our conversations about Asylovox speakers, I have no interest in ever hearing them myself. I know their ears too well to bother. They sure are lookers though!

PS - Context matters, and this was reported in the context of the RMAF system configuration.

I was unable to get away from my room and "make the rounds" last time I showed at RMAF in 2018 (the last year in the Mariott), but I have friends who mentioned the Alsyvox room when I asked what were the best rooms they had been to.

Now based on my own experience at audio shows, which DAY you hear a system can make a major difference. At the end of each day I make changes (small and/or big), so an early-in-the-show audition may well not be representative.

Finally, when they renovated the Mariott a couple of years before the 2018 show they installed huge central air ducting in one corner of the room. Since I showed in the same room multiple years, I could compare "before" and "after". In my room at least the central air duct acted like an eleven story tall bass trap, so the room was actually ANEMIC in the bass, which almost NEVER happens in hotel rooms. Fortunately I was using subwoofers so I could goose the low end a bit, but that would have handicapped the Alsyvox's.

My "rule of thumb" about hearing speakers at shows is this: If they sound great at a show, then they ARE great, because you really can't fake that. But if they sound bad at a show, don't necessarily take them off your list - there are many many reasons why that could have been the case. Including partnering with another manufacturer whose product (amp, preamp, cabling, front end, whatever) had issues you did not know about.

Edit: Oops - just now looked closely at the date, didn't realize I was replying to post made exactly two years ago, rather than earlier today!
 
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JoeyGun

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I definitely would love to listen to the Alsyvox on person, but not sure where it's available to demo here in Los Angeles.
 

Ron Resnick

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The Botticellis can be heard at Cake Audio in San Clemente, CA.
 
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JoeyGun

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Alrainbow

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I was unable to get away from my room and "make the rounds" last time I showed at RMAF in 2018 (the last year in the Mariott), but I have friends who mentioned the Alsyvox room when I asked what were the best rooms they had been to.

Now based on my own experience at audio shows, which DAY you hear a system can make a major difference. At the end of each day I make changes (small and/or big), so an early-in-the-show audition may well not be representative.

Finally, when they renovated the Mariott a couple of years before the 2018 show they installed huge central air ducting in one corner of the room. Since I showed in the same room multiple years, I could compare "before" and "after". In my room at least the central air duct acted like an eleven story tall bass trap, so the room was actually ANEMIC in the bass, which almost NEVER happens in hotel rooms. Fortunately I was using subwoofers so I could goose the low end a bit, but that would have handicapped the Alsyvox's.

My "rule of thumb" about hearing speakers at shows is this: If they sound great at a show, then they ARE great, because you really can't fake that. But if they sound bad at a show, don't necessarily take them off your list - there are many many reasons why that could have been the case. Including partnering with another manufacturer whose product (amp, preamp, cabling, front end, whatever) had issues you did not know about.

Edit: Oops - just now looked closely at the date, didn't realize I was replying to post made exactly two years ago, rather than earlier today!

I usually like to go back a few times over the 2 days to listen before commenting on setups at shows and agree if it sounds good at shows chances are the setup is good and disagree if they sound bad at shows after two days chances are the setup has many inherent compromises not easily overcome with short showtimes setup and the inability to switch items in and out over two years typical of these compromised designs ..

Bad and by that i don't mean OK or meh show sound is really not excusable at typical prices being thrown around today ..
 

morricab

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I usually like to go back a few times over the 2 days to listen before commenting on setups at shows and agree if it sounds good at shows chances are the setup is good and disagree if they sound bad at shows after two days chances are the setup has many inherent compromises not easily overcome with short showtimes setup and the inability to switch items in and out over two years typical of these compromised designs ..

Bad and by that i don't mean OK or meh show sound is really not excusable at typical prices being thrown around today ..
What electronics were being used? In Munich the last couple of years (meaning 2018 and 2019...2020 was cancelled) the sound was superb with the Alsyvox speakers.
 

Alpinist

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The Botticellis can be heard at Cake Audio in San Clemente, CA.
Hi Ron,

Have you listened to them there and if so, what were your impressions?

Ken
 

Ron Resnick

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Hi Ron,

Have you listened to them there and if so, what were your impressions?

Ken

No, not yet. (I haven't quite been able to work out the logistics with Ken, as I am at least three hours away from him by automobile.)
 
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Rhapsody

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If anyone is interested in hearing Alxyvox speakers they are available to listen to at Rhapsody's customers homes in six different states at this point. The states are CA (Tintoretto X), Nebraska (Botticelli), Chicago (Botticelli and Tintoretto soon), Alabama (Botticelli), New York (Tintoretto X or Botticelli X), Washington State (Botticelli X).

If anyone is interested, especially after we get the vaccine and things settle down, pm me and I will connect you with one of the Alsyvox users. They are all great guys and open to an interested visitor, post Covid.
 

gwalt

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What electronics were being used? In Munich the last couple of years (meaning 2018 and 2019...2020 was cancelled) the sound was superb with the Alsyvox speakers.
Hello Morricab:

The electronics used at 2018 and 2019 RMAF where the Botticelli's were displayed used the Omega Audio Concepts electronics and cables made in Italy. I purchased my Botticelli speakers after hearing them at RMAF 2018 show. It was an "Oh Ya That's It" forever experience.
Still feeling the same today even more so. Lots of choices in the speaker camp.

gwalt
 

christoph

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Hello Morricab:

The electronics used at 2018 and 2019 RMAF where the Botticelli's were displayed used the Omega Audio Concepts electronics and cables made in Italy. I purchased my Botticelli speakers after hearing them at RMAF 2018 show. It was an "Oh Ya That's It" forever experience.
Still feeling the same today even more so. Lots of choices in the speaker camp.

gwalt
What amps are you using on the Botticellis?
 

DaveC

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I thought Alsyvox and Omega were the best of RMAF 2019:



Although I think YG did a better job with setup, the Alsyvox room had some incredibly lifelike moments that few systems are capable of ever achieving.
 

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