America Shuts Down!

[rbbert]

I wish I understood why people are opposed to the ACA. Much of it seems to be misinformation of some kind (e.g. that Medicare will be different), but otherwise it is baffling.

 

[beaur]

In theory may-be. The two are more intertwined than you think. There is a very long list of scientifically "proven / rejected" theories that is too absurd for words - strictly because of politization of the science. Ask Galileo. Only with many years of hindsight do we know what science was real science.

Sure there's a long history of both sides using each other but done right, politics is an art and science is well science. We currently have about 650 crayon artists in DC right now.

 

[mep]

I wish I understood why people are opposed to the ACA. Much of it seems to be misinformation of some kind (e.g. that Medicare will be different), but otherwise it is baffling.

As part of ACA, didn't the threshold for what is considered to be a "full time" worker get lowered to 30 hours instead of 40? Isn't this part of what is making small business mad as well as the service industry (think restaurants) that typically employed people for more than 30 hours but less than 40 so they weren't on the hook for full-time benefits?

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Tim,

This tactic has been used over and over again over the past 40 years. As the Washington Post's Glenn Kessler noted when he gave President Obama "4 Pinocchios" early this week for "his claim that non-budget items have ‘never’ been attached to the debt ceiling" (http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...have-never-been-attached-to-the-debt-ceiling/). If this article is correct, it appears that this practice was the brainchild of Senators Edward Kennedy and Walter Mondale...

Money quote is at the end:

Right you are, and the first time was a partial shutdown in 1976, the Ford administration. It's useful to know a bit more about it than that, however:

Citing out of control spending, President Gerald Ford vetoed a funding bill for the United States Department of Labor and the United States Department of Health, Education, and Welfare (HEW), leading to a partial government shutdown. On October 1, the Democratically-controlled Congress overrode Ford's veto but it took until October 11 for a continuing resolution ending funding gaps for other parts of government to become law.

Another partial shutdown in '77. Them Dems again:

The Democratically-controlled House continued to uphold the ban on using Medicaid dollars to pay for abortions, except in cases where the life of the mother was at stake. Meanwhile, the Democratic-controlled Senate pressed to loosen the ban to allow abortion funding in the case of rape or incest. A funding gap was created when disagreement over the issue between the houses had become tied to funding for the Departments of Labor and HEW, leading to a partial government shutdown. A temporary agreement was made to restore funding through October 31, 1977, allowing more time for Congress to resolve its dispute

'79 was an interesting one, partial again, and all Dems all the time - house, senate and exec branch:

Against the opposition of the Senate, the House pushed for a 5.5 percent pay increase for congress members and senior civil servants. The House also sought to restrict federal spending on abortion only to cases where the mother's life is in danger, while the Senate wanted to maintain funding for abortions in cases of rape and incest.

The first time anybody actually tried to hold the continuing resolution hostage to specific legislation? '84, and it's not a simple who did what to whom...

The House wished to link the budget to both a crime-fighting package President Reagan supported and a water projects package he did not. The Senate additionally tied the budget to a civil rights measure designed to overturn Grove City v. Bell. Reagan proposed a compromise where he abandoned his crime package in exchange for Congress dropping theirs. A deal was not struck, and a three-day spending extension was passed instead.

The three-day spending extension expired, forcing a shutdown. Congress dropped their proposed water and civil rights packages, while President Reagan kept his crime package. Funding for aid to the Nicaraguan Contras was also passed.

The first time Congress attempted to demand the repeal of an existing law as a condition of funding the federal government? This is it, brother. Here. Now. Unprecedented.

It's easy to say "this has been going on for 40 years and the Democrats started it," but this has not been going on for 40 years. It's not that simple. Rule of thumb almost every idealogue in America needs to learn: If you can fit it on a bumper sticker it's probably wrong.

Tim

 

[NorthStar]

In theory may-be. The two are more intertwined than you think. There is a very long list of scientifically "proven / rejected" theories that is too absurd for words - strictly because of politization of the science. Ask Galileo. Only with many years of hindsight do we know what science was real science.

Let stay with what's truly at stake here. :b ...The U.S. government's shutdown (Obamacare & all that jazz), and interjected into the discussion; Global Warming.

* Politization; is that a real word?

_____________

You guys remember the Fiscal Cliff?

 

[Dre_J]

As part of ACA, didn't the threshold for what is considered to be a "full time" worker get lowered to 30 hours instead of 40? Isn't this part of what is making small business mad as well as the service industry (think restaurants) that typically employed people for more than 30 hours but less than 40 so they weren't on the hook for full-time benefits?

In general and not directed at any individual in any way, I really hate to even jump in on this since I really dislike the disingenuousness that goes with politics.

However, I will say that I've dealt with and worked for many a company (including large defense oriented engineering firms) that have always defined full-time as 30 hours or greater. The ACA may have nothing to do with that in many cases since it's been a policy for many companies long before the plan. I would say, like most things, the thought that 30 hours being considered full-time is a reason to blow-up the plan is somewhat suspect.

Dre

 

[edorr]

Let stay with what's truly at stake here. :b ...The US government's shutdown (Obamacare & all that jazz), and interjected into the discussion; Global Warming.

This was in jest.

* Politization; is that a real word?

politicization

You guys remember the Fiscal Cliff?

There is another one coming up soon. The fun is just beginning.

 

[rblnr]

I wish I understood why people are opposed to the ACA. Much of it seems to be misinformation of some kind (e.g. that Medicare will be different), but otherwise it is baffling.

So no death squads coming after seniors?

Obama has done a lousy job of explaining it to the people. The detractors have largely defined what it is in the public mind.

 

[NorthStar]

This was in jest.

I see. ...I kind of knew it to be frank.

politicization

Ah.

There is another one coming up soon. The fun is just beginning.

Yeah, right now. ...And wait for the week after this week! ...Truly scary! ...October 10th, isn't it for that 'pivotal' vote?

 

[Ronm1]

Yeah, right now. ...And wait for the week after this week! ...Truly scary! ...October 10th, isn't it for that 'pivotal' vote?

Formal Trick or Treat night vote in DC, wait isn't that what's going on right now!!!

 

[mauidan]

 

[rockitman]

View attachment 11944

what happens when amnesty is given to the 12 million illegals..they all go on obamacare, probably completely subsidized by you know who...us the taxpayers. It will be unsustainable.

 

[mauidan]

what happens when amnesty is given to the 12 million illegals..they all go on obamacare, probably completely subsidized by you know who...us the taxpayers. It will be unsustainable.

 

[mep]

What portion of that debt was created by Republicans? If memory serves me correctly, the Iraq and Afghanistan wars were started by George W. That's over a trillion dollars quite easily. You can't put a price on the loss of life and limbs.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

View attachment 11944

Didn't think I'd need to repeat this so soon:

Rule of thumb almost every idealogue in America needs to learn: If you can fit it on a bumper sticker it's probably wrong.

Tim

 

[rbbert]

I hate to tell you but all those illegals are getting free medical care right now, paid for by us. At least if they were on Obamacare they'd be paying something. That's in general what I don't understand about the objections to the ACA; even though the insurance exchanges are subsidized based on income, at least many people who now pay nothing for their medical care will then be paying something.

 

[NorthStar]

Formal Trick or Treat night vote in DC, wait isn't that what's going on right now!!!

This is just the foreplay Ron, the preambule, the preliminaries. ...Before the final countdown to da kadaboom bomb!
But I don't think it's going to happen; because that would be catastrophic for everybody; the ENTIRE WORLD ECONOMY!

 

[NorthStar]

View attachment 11944

Is that one Syrian talking to another?

 

[NorthStar]

View attachment 11945

Dan, ...!

 

[mep]

I hate to tell you but all those illegals are getting free medical care right now, paid for by us. At least if they were on Obamacare they'd be paying something. That's in general what I don't understand about the objections to the ACA; even though the insurance exchanges are subsidized based on income, at least many people who now pay nothing for their medical care will then be paying something.

Every time the poor/uninsured use the emergency room of the local hospital as their family doctor, all taxpayers pay for that.