Amir's CES 2015 High-end Audio Report and Picture Thread

amirm

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More to do with intellectual curiosity than audio excellence, but I didn't realise submarines used a different technology.Would be interested to know when it dates from and how it differs from the more familiar technology.
You made me go and look :). The wiki is very informative. Here is the relevant part:

====

Extremely low frequency

Electromagnetic waves in the ELF and SLF frequency ranges (3–300 Hz) can penetrate seawater to depths of hundreds of meters, allowing communication with submarines at their operating depths. Building an ELF transmitter is a formidable challenge, as they have to work at incredibly long wavelengths: The US Navy's system, Seafarer, which was a variant of a larger system proposed under the codename Project Sanguine,[1] operated at 76 hertz,[2] the Soviet/Russian system (called ZEVS) at 82 hertz.[3] The latter corresponds to a wavelength of 3,658.5 kilometers. That is more than a quarter of the Earth's diameter. Obviously, the usual half-wavelength dipole antenna cannot be feasibly constructed.

Instead, one has to find an area with very low ground conductivity (a requirement opposite to usual radio transmitter sites), bury two huge electrodes in the ground at different sites, and then feed lines to them from a station in the middle, in the form of wires on poles. Although other separations are possible, the distance used by the ZEVS transmitter located near Murmansk is 60 kilometers. As the ground conductivity is poor, the current between the electrodes will penetrate deep into the Earth, essentially using a large part of the globe as an antenna. The antenna length in Republic, Michigan, was approximately 52 kilometers (32 mi). The antenna is very inefficient. To drive it, a dedicated power plant seems to be required, although the power emitted as radiation is only a few watts. Its transmission can be received virtually anywhere. A station in Antarctica at 78° S 167° W detected transmission when the Soviet Navy put their ZEVS antenna into operation.[3]

Due to the technical difficulty of building an ELF transmitter, the U.S., Russia and India are the only nations known to have constructed ELF communication facilities. Until it was dismantled in late September 2004, the American Seafarer, later called Project ELF system (76 Hz), consisted of two antennas, located at Clam Lake, Wisconsin (since 1977), and at Republic, Michigan, in the Upper Peninsula (since 1980). The Russian antenna (ZEVS, 82 Hz) is installed at the Kola Peninsula near Murmansk. It was noticed in the West in the early 1990s. The Indian Navy has an operational ELF communication facility at the INS Kattabomman naval base to communicate with its Arihant class and Akula class submarines.[4][5] The British Royal Navy once considered building their own transmitter at Glengarry Forest, Scotland, but the project was cancelled.

ELF transmissions

The coding used for US military ELF transmissions employed a Reed-Solomon error correction code using 64 symbols, each represented by a very long pseudo-random sequence. The entire transmission was then encrypted. The advantages of such a technique are that by correlating multiple transmissions, a message could be completed even with very low signal-to-noise ratios, and because only a very few pseudo-random sequences represented actual message characters, there was a very high probability that if a message was successfully received, it was a valid message (anti-spoofing).

The communication link is one-way. No submarine could have its own ELF transmitter on board, due to the sheer size of such a device. Attempts to design a transmitter which can be immersed in the sea or flown on an aircraft were soon abandoned.

Due to the limited bandwidth, information can only be transmitted very slowly, on the order of a few characters per minute (see Shannon's coding theorem). Thus it is reasonable to assume that the actual messages were mostly generic instructions or requests to establish a different form of two-way communication with the relevant authority.
 

microstrip

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You made me go and look :). The wiki is very informative. Here is the relevant part:

====

Extremely low frequency

Electromagnetic waves in the ELF and SLF frequency ranges (3–300 Hz) can penetrate seawater to depths of hundreds of meters, allowing communication with submarines at their operating depths. Building an ELF transmitter is a formidable challenge, as they have to work at incredibly long wavelengths: The US Navy's system, Seafarer, which was a variant of a larger system proposed under the codename Project Sanguine,[1] operated at 76 hertz,[2] the Soviet/Russian system (called ZEVS) at 82 hertz.[3] The latter corresponds to a wavelength of 3,658.5 kilometers. That is more than a quarter of the Earth's diameter. Obviously, the usual half-wavelength dipole antenna cannot be feasibly constructed.

Instead, one has to find an area with very low ground conductivity (a requirement opposite to usual radio transmitter sites), bury two huge electrodes in the ground at different sites, and then feed lines to them from a station in the middle, in the form of wires on poles. Although other separations are possible, the distance used by the ZEVS transmitter located near Murmansk is 60 kilometers. As the ground conductivity is poor, the current between the electrodes will penetrate deep into the Earth, essentially using a large part of the globe as an antenna. The antenna length in Republic, Michigan, was approximately 52 kilometers (32 mi). The antenna is very inefficient. To drive it, a dedicated power plant seems to be required, although the power emitted as radiation is only a few watts. Its transmission can be received virtually anywhere. A station in Antarctica at 78° S 167° W detected transmission when the Soviet Navy put their ZEVS antenna into operation.[3]

Due to the technical difficulty of building an ELF transmitter, the U.S., Russia and India are the only nations known to have constructed ELF communication facilities. Until it was dismantled in late September 2004, the American Seafarer, later called Project ELF system (76 Hz), consisted of two antennas, located at Clam Lake, Wisconsin (since 1977), and at Republic, Michigan, in the Upper Peninsula (since 1980). The Russian antenna (ZEVS, 82 Hz) is installed at the Kola Peninsula near Murmansk. It was noticed in the West in the early 1990s. The Indian Navy has an operational ELF communication facility at the INS Kattabomman naval base to communicate with its Arihant class and Akula class submarines.[4][5] The British Royal Navy once considered building their own transmitter at Glengarry Forest, Scotland, but the project was cancelled.

ELF transmissions

The coding used for US military ELF transmissions employed a Reed-Solomon error correction code using 64 symbols, each represented by a very long pseudo-random sequence. The entire transmission was then encrypted. The advantages of such a technique are that by correlating multiple transmissions, a message could be completed even with very low signal-to-noise ratios, and because only a very few pseudo-random sequences represented actual message characters, there was a very high probability that if a message was successfully received, it was a valid message (anti-spoofing).

The communication link is one-way. No submarine could have its own ELF transmitter on board, due to the sheer size of such a device. Attempts to design a transmitter which can be immersed in the sea or flown on an aircraft were soon abandoned.

Due to the limited bandwidth, information can only be transmitted very slowly, on the order of a few characters per minute (see Shannon's coding theorem). Thus it is reasonable to assume that the actual messages were mostly generic instructions or requests to establish a different form of two-way communication with the relevant authority.

I hope people get it his time ... http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16133-This-will-make-your-head-spin-Synergistic-Research-Atmosphere&p=295437&viewfull=1#post295437
 

ack

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Back to CES. Anyone want to argue that the atmosphere advances the state of the art in high end audio?

BTW no one refuted communication in the ELF, in fact the quoted articles cover it.
 

amirm

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Back to CES. Anyone want to argue that the atmosphere advances the state of the art in high end audio?
Well, sighted evaluation despite disbelief on my part showed substantial improvement in ambiance and sense of space. Objectively it is supposed to do nothing. So we have the most extreme dichotomy here of subjectivity vs objectivity :). I have been offered an extended evaluation. If it works out, I should be able to shine more light on this.
 

Whatmore

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Well, sighted evaluation despite disbelief on my part showed substantial improvement in ambiance and sense of space. Objectively it is supposed to do nothing. So we have the most extreme dichotomy here of subjectivity vs objectivity :). I have been offered an extended evaluation. If it works out, I should be able to shine more light on this.

The wiki article talks about the extreme size of these device (52km!!). Given than, how can the Atmosphere *possibly* be an ELF generator?
 

DonH50

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+1.

I still have not read that it generates an EM signal and that in turn affects audio perception. Audio waves at 8 Hz are not at all the same thing as an EM wave at 8 Hz.

The extreme size of the ELF systems are to achieve the desired radiation. A quarter-wave antenna is pretty big at ELF...

p.s. I have seen parts of the Wisconsin system and read about the Michigan system. There were also rumours of one in MN.
 

Barry2013

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Amir many thanks for the info on submarine communications.
Very interesting and another gap in my knowledge repaired.
It's amazing what you learn on WBF!
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Amir many thanks for the info on submarine communications.
Very interesting and another gap in my knowledge repaired.
It's amazing what you learn on WBF!

I remember in college the professor putting up the various waves (light, radio, sound, etc) on a 50 foot long chalkboard...just to illustrate his point. I remember him saying on that same scale, nuclear submarines and other high-tech military communications were on wavelengths someplace waaay outside the building.
 

Joe Whip

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Just a thought here on the Atmosphere, but have any tests been performed the health effects, if any, on long term exposure to the signals generated by this product?
 

Orb

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+1.

I still have not read that it generates an EM signal and that in turn affects audio perception. Audio waves at 8 Hz are not at all the same thing as an EM wave at 8 Hz.

The extreme size of the ELF systems are to achieve the desired radiation. A quarter-wave antenna is pretty big at ELF...

p.s. I have seen parts of the Wisconsin system and read about the Michigan system. There were also rumours of one in MN.

Slightly off topic from me, ok waaay off : tangent :)
If I remember Fringe or X-Files did an episode involving ELF; the side effect caused one's brain to explode if they did not keep moving east-to-west.
I saw it on TV so must be true, where is health and safety!!! :)
More seriously is it ELF that is possibly affecting sea mammals (appreciate not scientifically proven but is known something potentially influences their beaching behaviour)?

And kudos on seeing some of that system Don!
I remember the clearance checks I needed just to get on some of the US-UK nuke capable bases here in the UK back in the 80s for more mundane tech stuff, let alone radar related.
Cheers
Orb
 

DaveC

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Nov 16, 2014
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Well, sighted evaluation despite disbelief on my part showed substantial improvement in ambiance and sense of space. Objectively it is supposed to do nothing. So we have the most extreme dichotomy here of subjectivity vs objectivity :). I have been offered an extended evaluation. If it works out, I should be able to shine more light on this.

That would be interesting. I experienced a demo at RMAF and there's no doubt it adds some kind of ambiance. I thought the result was positive with some music, but less on other music... so it needs to be adjusted using the app for optimal results depending on the individual track or album that's playing. I think the question is, will you actually do this long-term or will you stop using it after a while?
 

CGabriel

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Let's say it did. It still does not explain the sonic effect.

So Amir, since the brain generates EM waves and it functions at frequencies from less than 1Hz to about 16Hz and brainwave entrainment is a known phenomenon - how do you know that it isn't just your perception that has been altered as opposed to any actual in room acoustic effect? In other words, it could all be in your head.
 

ack

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Well, sighted evaluation despite disbelief on my part showed substantial improvement in ambiance and sense of space. Objectively it is supposed to do nothing. So we have the most extreme dichotomy here of subjectivity vs objectivity :). I have been offered an extended evaluation. If it works out, I should be able to shine more light on this.

It's interesting that they wouldn't A/B the device with music playing continuously... you said they claimed it wouldn't demonstrate the effect. Why? Surely, anyone evaluating the device at home would do exactly that, so why not demo it that way. Something just doesn't sound right here... On another note, what exactly is "substantial improvement in ambiance"? Larger soundstage?
 

amirm

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It's interesting that they wouldn't A/B the device with music playing continuously... you said they claimed it wouldn't demonstrate the effect. Why?
I think what he said was that it would not make as good a demo or something like it.

Surely, anyone evaluating the device at home would do exactly that, so why not demo it that way. Something just doesn't sound right here... On another note, what exactly is "substantial improvement in ambiance"? Larger soundstage?
No, it was the separation between instruments and such. I am sure you have heard it but hard to explain in words :).
 

amirm

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So Amir, since the brain generates EM waves and it functions at frequencies from less than 1Hz to about 16Hz and brainwave entrainment is a known phenomenon - how do you know that it isn't just your perception that has been altered as opposed to any actual in room acoustic effect? In other words, it could all be in your head.
I am pretty sure it is all in my head as that is how I hear everything. :D
 

amirm

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Just a thought here on the Atmosphere, but have any tests been performed the health effects, if any, on long term exposure to the signals generated by this product?
It is a bit late for me. Just had a test done and I am told I cannot get pregnant due to that exposure. :D :D
 

DonH50

Member Sponsor & WBF Technical Expert
Jun 22, 2010
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Slightly off topic from me, ok waaay off : tangent :)
If I remember Fringe or X-Files did an episode involving ELF; the side effect caused one's brain to explode if they did not keep moving east-to-west.
I saw it on TV so must be true, where is health and safety!!! :)
More seriously is it ELF that is possibly affecting sea mammals (appreciate not scientifically proven but is known something potentially influences their beaching behaviour)?

And kudos on seeing some of that system Don!
I remember the clearance checks I needed just to get on some of the US-UK nuke capable bases here in the UK back in the 80s for more mundane tech stuff, let alone radar related.
Cheers
Orb

Hey Orb,

There have been studies performed by the Navy but I am not certain the results. It does effect some fish but the main effect seemed to be to scare them off. Not really my field, a bit far from the multi-GHz radar/EQ stuff I worked on! I remember mainly due to some sonar work -- signal processing for an array is similar for radar, sonar, lidar, whatever and I was working on CCD-based filters at the time. There were also rumours of killing deer as they jumped over the buried long lines and the field change caused heart attacks. They did find dead deer around the lines, again can't recall if they ever discovered the actual cause of death. There was a massive amount of power through the lines (up to ~50 MW IIRC).

I am doing purely commercial stuff now and do not miss the day-long interviews to maintain a security clearance. One thing I don't have to worry about is what the gov't knows about me -- they already know everything! Bloody lifestyle interviews...
 

Orb

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Sep 8, 2010
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Hey Orb,

There have been studies performed by the Navy but I am not certain the results. It does effect some fish but the main effect seemed to be to scare them off. Not really my field, a bit far from the multi-GHz radar/EQ stuff I worked on! I remember mainly due to some sonar work -- signal processing for an array is similar for radar, sonar, lidar, whatever and I was working on CCD-based filters at the time. There were also rumours of killing deer as they jumped over the buried long lines and the field change caused heart attacks. They did find dead deer around the lines, again can't recall if they ever discovered the actual cause of death. There was a massive amount of power through the lines (up to ~50 MW IIRC).

I am doing purely commercial stuff now and do not miss the day-long interviews to maintain a security clearance. One thing I don't have to worry about is what the gov't knows about me -- they already know everything! Bloody lifestyle interviews...
Heh funny but I forgot about that bit of my life in the 80s until you mentioned military radars.
One of the bases I worked on had a specific-special radar, was made pretty clear no-one was allowed to get closer than 2miles to the installation, so can really appreciate what you managed to see from that radar system.
Although I bet you did not have to put up with Greenpeace demonstrators every morning like over here :)
BTW was it standard practice back then for drills relating to base being breached by chemical attack (wearing full chemical combat suits - must be a nightmare for them in summer)?
I remember seeing that monthly/bimonthly happening on the base but wondering if it related more to the bases' capabilities.

Cheers
Orb
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Just a thought here on the Atmosphere, but have any tests been performed the health effects, if any, on long term exposure to the signals generated by this product?

Short and long term health effects of low frequency electromagnetic fields are mainly centered in the 50 and 60 Hz frequencies, as many people claim they are sensitive to EM fields of power lines. But as far as science goes they are officially harmless. I remember that Gary Koh reported in a WBF thread he was very sensitive to these type of devices operating close to the Schumann resonance being switched on http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?14632-Acoustic-Revive-Schuman-Wave-Generator&p=264766&viewfull=1#post264766
 

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