An argument for NOT spiking speakers to floor

[Phillyb]

Aggen, Giving my thoughts and experience as you do. Did not know that a different perspective would be frowned upon if you want just your thoughts then start your own thread and talk to yourself. Smile! I will say it again if you enjoy the effect of the footers that are great. I don't. I like decoupling and I had speakers where the spikes work great and without sound blah. I try it all and learn what works in my room, in my system, and for my enjoyment. It's a hobby nothing more or less.

 

[BlueFox]

I wonder why you think that? One of the best systems I have ever heard was in Bob Ludwig's main room at Gateway Mastering Studios. His very large speakers sit directly on bedrock and, by means of strategic cut-outs in the floor, are physically isolated from the room structure. Rock-solid bass.

Perhaps my writing wasn’t clear. If the speakers were on a floor above another room I suspect the sound would be much worse than the sound of the speakers on my solid floor. So spiking the speakers on the suspended floor would make a much more apparent improvement. Although probably never not quite as good as the speakers on the solid foundation. But, that is just speculation.

 

[Phillyb]

Spiking Your Speakers: What's the Point? - PS Audio

 

[stehno]

The point being that our sensitive electronics respond quite negatively to unwanted resonant energy and that includes cross-overs, wires, etc. Additionally, electronics will induce more unwanted resonant energy when electric current is passing through them.

For those into isolation / decoupling the real question is, what's the point of intentionally trapping all that unwanted energy at their point source so that the unwanted energy must be released somewhere within its trapped confines, thereby making matters even worse?

Surely nobody here is claiming more unwanted resonant energy including unwanted resonant energy fully released at a sensitive component or speaker offers improved levels of musicality over less unwanted resonant energy, or are they?

If so, I'd love to hear the logic.

 

[Phillyb]

You give extreme cases, yes put a preamp on a sub-woofer is not smart, but as a designer told me years ago, You think we don't know the effects of vibrations? Of course, we design that into our product, but you do understand the tweaks are the new profit margins of stores and they are huge. I fully understand adding this or that to one system changes the sound, that is a given in a decent system, you could take 4-hard apples and put them under a preamp and you hear a change in the system because all your doing is making a new area of resonance/coloration that will stick out more in one area of the frequency response than without. Sony whom I worked for many years made the Esprit amps and preamp, they had parts not yet used in any American gear, plus they had magnetic feet for the gear to rest on which floated the gear. So if Pass lab makes gear with the feet they do, or Luxman or Esoteric makes custom feet for their gear well they must know what they are doing but if you want to change the sound then do your best, but it is only better for your ear and no way makes it more accurate. I love power cords because with the right one for my taste it can make more of an improvement than what a new piece of gear might. Tweaks are fun, just don't make them an end-all you can put a small statue on an amp or preamp and it will change the sound without having to spend $$$ to do so because it's an audiophile tweak, please. NASA or Medical gear has zip to do with Audio that is pure marketing, and we in marketing fully understand that. Audiophile bane, and paranoia, there is always something better, or a tweak to make it better, no you can make the system sound different but no way do any of us know if it is better than what they heard in the mastering studio. That is Audiophile's many myths. The fact is we build systems to our own tastes, and that is great and worth every penny to us, so tweak away. Fuses (many so if one is right the rest are wrong)? grounding systems, dampers, and all the rest, there is something out there for everyone that why they made them for extra a profit above the cost of gear, it is a product category into itself.

 

[Phillyb]

Regarding the townsend vid ,
What he uses is some kind of absorption In the feet I suppose , I think all those visco elastic /elastomer/rubber vibration absorbing devices dont really solve the problems within an incorrectly designed speaker , it also absorbs energy which I dont want .
I want my speakers dynamic .

Herbies feet can do the same, their spike with decoupling is superb and cost a fraction of the Townsend do. Threaded Stud Glider – Herbie's Audio Lab (herbiesaudiolab.com)
Superior Decoupling Spike – Herbie's Audio Lab (herbiesaudiolab.com)

 

[Cellcbern]

FYI:

Ten Misconceptions about Loudspeaker Spikes - Positive Feedback

Ten Misconceptions about Loudspeaker Spikes

positive-feedback.com

 

[andromedaaudio]

FYI:

Ten Misconceptions about Loudspeaker Spikes - Positive Feedback

Ten Misconceptions about Loudspeaker Spikes

positive-feedback.com

Misconception 7 - Loudspeaker Cabinets Don't Vibrate

Yes they do. If you think that ultra dense cabinets don't move, try the music box mechanism or tuning fork on such a cabinet and hear it move. I have a cabinet cast of concrete and yet, it performs as a soundboard very well. You can prove it to yourself with the vibrating test device; if it becomes louder when it makes contact, than the surface is moving. You can't see it. Its displacement is too small, and its velocity too fast for the unaided eye. You may be able feel it, and you can certainly hear it. For example, with a tuning fork of A440, the cabinet is oscillating 440 times per second, and the cabinet is moving a few billionths of a meter, while the sound is probably amplified around 25 dB SPL louder than without contact.



Not true
See my vid on the first page of this thread

 

[Phillyb]

Ahem.

 

[Ted Denney III]

This goes against everything I've ever experienced, but here it is.

Does it make any sense to you?

Alsyvox
https://alsyvox.com/our-technology/
View attachment 60804

View attachment 60805


Anything is possible in theory, but then you have to prove it with experiments, right?

Exactly, theory is great and all but at the end of the day, if it sounds better, it is better. If it does not, it is not. I’ve done trade shows where after we get the system set up, we have the speakers in position, once everything sounded amazing, when we spike the speakers, the magic was gone. So we pulled the spikes.

 

[Phillyb]

Well, let's look at instruments when played to vibrate? Does a guitar body vibrate, snare drum when hit, Kick drum, piano? Should we spike a piano, drums sets, damp the guitar body? No, that is why they have their own sound and sound live. Spikes have become standard only because they are expected to be on the speakers for the last 15 years or so. I still find that most of the time speakers sound more natural, detailed, color and tone, and musical sans spikes.

 

[Gregm]

I use spring isolation units under my speakers to unexpectedly good effect. Subjective improvements are better clarity (i.e. high frequencies) and, possibly as a result, better bass clarity.
It amazed me, I had always used coupling devices until then, spikes or Nordost pulsars.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Well, let's look at instruments when played to vibrate? Does a guitar body vibrate, snare drum when hit, Kick drum, piano? Should we spike a piano, drums sets, damp the guitar body? No, that is why they have their own sound and sound live. Spikes have become standard only because they are expected to be on the speakers for the last 15 years or so.

Sure. The reason is that the instruments you cite produce/create musical sounds when used as described and damping/constraining them will change the way they have been designed to sound. Loudspeakers, on the other hand, are not instruments but are reproducing devices. They should not have any inherent sound characteristic, they should be prevented from inducing sounds in external materials (e.g., floors) and they should not have those other materials influence their operations.

I am not advocating for spikes, springs or any other specific devices but that speakers cannot be treated like musical instruments (nor vice versa).

 

[treitz3]

Well, let's look at instruments when played to vibrate? Does a guitar body vibrate, snare drum when hit, Kick drum, piano? Should we spike a piano, drums sets, damp the guitar body? No, that is why they have their own sound and sound live. Spikes have become standard only because they are expected to be on the speakers for the last 15 years or so. I still find that most of the time speakers sound more natural, detailed, color and tone, and musical sans spikes.

Hello, Phillyb and good evening to you.

There is a big difference between musical instruments that use certain materials to make tone, resonance (when wanted), distortion (when wanted) or other sounds in order to make a certain makeup for music versus simply spiking a speaker. Your observations are a complete 180° from that of mine on many a system.

Mr. Rubinson nailed it. While we can not (in our lifetime) expect a perfect reproduction? A good to outstanding/sublime reproductive effort is achievable. Having the speakers get out of the way is a large portion of achieving that goal.

Tom

 

[pmiller]

The negative effects of vibration and the various ways of trying to deal with it are somewhat new to this hobby. Conventional thinking until somewhat recently seemed to concentrate on spiking speakers. I recently tried and stayed with Townshend seismic podiums and from my experience that move has been nothing but positive. There may be better ways of dealing with vibration but simply attempting to direct it into a more solid mass -the floor or whatever else that might be available- doesn't seem to me to be really getting rid of the vibration but rather is just removing it to a different area/surface upon which the speaker is still resting. I'm just not seeing how directing the vibration to a different surface or area upon which the speaker is still resting can overall be that helpful. It would also seem that whatever the surface is that the vibration is directed to can become more and more unstable -i.e. store more and more vibration energy each time vibration energy is directed to it unless it can itself rapidly dissipate such energy. The podiums I referred to above seem to absolutely dampen the vibration with a positive effect that is noticeable immediately. I have Linn Aktive speakers driven by a bridged amp putting out 450 watts per channel and I have found these podiums
to have an absolutely positive effect.

 

[Rob181]

The negative effects of vibration and the various ways of trying to deal with it are somewhat new to this hobby. Conventional thinking until somewhat recently seemed to concentrate on spiking speakers. I recently tried and stayed with Townshend seismic podiums and from my experience that move has been nothing but positive. There may be better ways of dealing with vibration but simply attempting to direct it into a more solid mass -the floor or whatever else that might be available- doesn't seem to me to be really getting rid of the vibration but rather is just removing it to a different area/surface upon which the speaker is still resting. I'm just not seeing how directing the vibration to a different surface or area upon which the speaker is still resting can overall be that helpful. It would also seem that whatever the surface is that the vibration is directed to can become more and more unstable -i.e. store more and more vibration energy each time vibration energy is directed to it unless it can itself rapidly dissipate such energy. The podiums I referred to above seem to absolutely dampen the vibration with a positive effect that is noticeable immediately. I have Linn Aktive speakers driven by a bridged amp putting out 450 watts per channel and I have found these podiums
to have an absolutely positive effect.

That is also my experience. Early on - a friend set up an experiment using springs calibrated for the weight of the speaker - the difference between the speaker on springs & solid spikes was not subtle - that lead to the development of a speaker spring setup that turned out to be somewhat similar to the Townshends - though we didn't know that at the time.

 

[Phillyb]

Everything in life has a sonic signature, No matter what you use under speakers or gear you are trading one signature for another and the important thing is if you like it or not, but don't call it correct. Your ear and your room and your idea of sonic bless... a smile. It is not like another other room or gear and my room included.