An Explanation of the Term "Suspension of Disbelief"

[Elliot G.]

Further to my last post, do you know what percentage of your clients reposition their speakers after you are “done”? This would also be a valuable statistic to examine.

Is there a follow-up engagement as part of your service to see if in the next 6 months or year the clients are still using the “we’re done” set up?

“Voicing” to me seems like a personal matter.

Carlos, When anyone provides a service , particularly one that has no defined ending , how would anyone be able to asnwer you. I know Jim is very good at what he does, however when you are in a client's home there is only so much time that anyone can specn and that a client will pay for. If there is a big and noticeable improvement and that is satisfactory to the provider and the client then the process was a success. Does this mean it can't be better or that the client can't change it if they desire? of course not
There is no finish line or the clock runiing out to signal the end only an experienced person providing his expertise for a good result.

 

[Carlos269]

Carlos, When anyone provides a service , particularly one that has no defined ending , how would anyone be able to asnwer you. I know Jim is very good at what he does, however when you are in a client's home there is only so much time that anyone can specn and that a client will pay for. If there is a big and noticeable improvement and that is satisfactory to the provider and the client then the process was a success. Does this mean it can't be better or that the client can't change it if they desire? of course not
There is no finish line or the clock runiing out to signal the end only an experienced person providing his expertise for a good result.

That’s precisely my point. It is one man’s idea of optimal, not necessarily “optimal “.

 

[microstrip]

(...) Kant tried that 450 years ago and look where it got him. Kant's "Antinomies of Pure Reason" described conflicting propositions that are not susceptible to solution by use of reason, let alone experimental proof. Good think he didn't have a stereo to convince him he shouldn't disblieve the sound of real instruments. Reading this thread probably would have killed him.

Marty,

We now discussing Samuel Taylor Coleridge - early 19th century and AI.

BTW, we are going to commemorate 300 years of the birth of Kant next year. Probably you wanted to type 250 years.

 

[marty]

Marty,

We now discussing Samuel Taylor Coleridge - early 19th century and AI.

BTW, we are going to commemorate 300 years of the birth of Kant next year. Probably you wanted to type 250 years.

Typo corrected. Thanks

 

[microstrip]

That’s precisely my point. It is one man’s idea of optimal, not necessarily “optimal “.

It is why a rudimentary understanding of statistics is needed in any high-end debate ... Then things can become more interesting.

 

[Elliot G.]

That’s precisely my point. It is one man’s idea of optimal, not necessarily “optimal “.

Fine but I dont see that anyone is claiming its perfect or optimal only that this service can and does improve the result for the consumer buying the service.
Perfect is the enemy of great. No one says this is perfect or unimprovable, except maybe Lee LOL

 

[Lee]

Fine but I dont see that anyone is claiming its perfect or optimal only that this service can and does improve the result for the consumer buying the service.
Perfect is the enemy of great. No one says this is perfect or unimprovable, except maybe Lee LOL

No, I am not saying Jim's final setup is perfect. How would we know that?

I am saying it's very good and scores off the charts on musical engagement. I go down to the reference room, play digital, LP or tape and there is always a smile on my face. In your words, it's a Time Machine with the right recordings.

 

[PeterA]

Further to my last post, do you know what percentage of your clients reposition their speakers after you are “done”? This would also be a valuable statistic to examine.

Is there a follow-up engagement as part of your service to see if in the next 6 months or year the clients are still using the “we’re done” set up?

“Voicing” to me seems like a personal matter.

Jim Smith did an excellent job voicing my old system a decade ago. I lived happily for a while without any changes. Then, I bought larger speakers and used the methods he had taught me to adjust the set up to my liking. I do not think we can expect one of Jim’s clients to refrain from later changes. His work is a moment in time, and if you are lucky, you can learn from him and be better for it.

 

[Carlos269]

Jim Smith did an excellent job voicing my old system a decade ago. I lived happily for a while without any changes. Then, I bought larger speakers and used the methods he had taught me to adjust the set up to my liking. I do not think we can expect one of Jim’s clients to refrain from later changes. His work is a moment in time, and if you are lucky, you can learn from him and be better for it.

It seems like you are always trying to learn from others. Some of us are leaders not followers.

 

[Elliot G.]

Jim Smith did an excellent job voicing my old system a decade ago. I lived happily for a while without any changes. Then, I bought larger speakers and used the methods he had taught me to adjust the set up to my liking. I do not think we can expect one of Jim’s clients to refrain from later changes. His work is a moment in time, and if you are lucky, you can learn from him and be better for it.

Thats wonderful but you are not Jim Smith. Him spending some time with you and helping you does not make you the student the teacher or the master.
The world in general and this Industry in specific has lost its ability to recognize and appreaciate expertise. It seems to me that just because one is succesful and fortunate enough to be able to write the check does not in itself qualify you as an expert.
I tell my clients this all the time
Because you can afford a Steinway Grand Piano does not mean
1) you know how to tune it
2) that you can play it

3) that you are good enough to play at Carnegie Hall
4) that you can critic Glen Gould
I can also say this for cars as well. Expertise is learned it takes time and effort and education. The purchase of an item DOES NOT include these, they are at significant extra cost.

 

[PeterA]

Thats wonderful but you are not Jim Smith. Him spending some time with you and helping you does not make you the student the teacher or the master.
The world in general and this Industry in specific has lost its ability to recognize and appreaciate expertise. It seems to me that just because one is succesful and fortunate enough to be able to write the check does not in itself qualify you as an expert.
I tell my clients this all the time
Because you can afford a Steinway Grand Piano does not mean
1) you know how to tune it
2) that you can play it

3) that you are good enough to play at Carnegie Hall
4) that you can critic Glen Gould
I can also say this for cars as well. Expertise is learned it takes time and effort and education. The purchase of an item DOES NOT include these, they are at significant extra cost.

Say what? Who suggested I am Jim Smith. Weird I simply wrote that I learned something from Jim Smith. Nothing more, nothing less. I am better for it and I am grateful for his help. Yes, I am glad I could afford his service fee.

I was responding to Carlos that as one of Jim’s clients, I eventually changed some gear and as a result the speaker positioning.

That is a strange rant.

 

[Audire]

It seems like you are always trying to learn from others. Some of us are leaders not followers.

Wise leaders learn to follow first, learn, and then they become better leaders. No one person knows it all. Once you think you know it all you’re not a leader, but a fool, the mere blind leading the blind.

 

[Ron Resnick]

That’s precisely my point. It is one man’s idea of optimal, not necessarily “optimal “.

But your point is specious, as this is a subjective hobby. So there is no objective, measurable "optimal."

Jim has literally decades of loudspeaker set-up and room acoustics experience. I would hire Jim to allow him to position my loudspeakers and listening chair to achieve what his ears tell him is the most natural and believable sound reproduction in my room. I would consider the sound resulting from Jim's preferred configuration to be a highly experienced-based reference.

 

[tima]

Say what? Who suggested I am Jim Smith. ...
That is a strange rant.

Yeah, I got one too. Maybe it's that... .

 

[Carlos269]

Wise leaders learn to follow first, learn, and then they become better leaders. No one person knows it all. Once you think you know it all you’re not a leader, but a fool, the mere blind leading the blind.

Joe, I know what I know and if you or someone else thinks that you can teach me something then come on….I’m all ears but don’t disrespect me by assuming that you or someone else knows more than I do.

 

[Carlos269]

But your point is specious, as this is a subjective hobby. So there is no objective, measurable "optimal."

Jim has literally decades of loudspeaker set-up and room acoustics experience. I would hire Jim to allow him to position my loudspeakers and listening chair to achieve what his ears tell him is the most natural and believable sound reproduction in my room. I would consider the sound resulting from Jim's preferred configuration to be a highly experienced-based reference.

Not sure what your point is here. You always want to be argumentative without an argument. Well the speaker set up would be based on Jim’s experience on setting up countless numbers of speakers. If you want to make inroads with me, first you need to demonstrate some knowledge. There are many with lots of experience but very little knowledge. Think about that for a minute.

 

[Lee]

Joe, I know what I know and you or someone else thinks that you can teach me something then come on….I’m all ears but don’t respect me assume that you or someone else knows more than I do.

Carlos,

How many systems have you set up?

How many years of experience do you have in system setup?

What is your general approach and what test gear or tools do you use for setup?

 

[Carlos269]

Carlos,

How many systems have you set up?

How many years of experience do you have in system setup?

What is your general approach and what test gear or tools do you use for setup?

Lee know your audience. A lot more than you. You obviously have not read my posts, seen my pictures, heard my videos, aren’t familiar with my equipment or experience. Why don’t you do a little research and then ask me if I can teach you something.

 

[Lee]

Lee know your audience. A lot more than you. You obviously have not read my posts, seen my pictures, heard my videos, aren’t familiar with equipment or experience. Why don’t you do a little research and then ask me if I can teach you something.

Can you please answer my questions? I am trying to determine your experience level and I have read your posts.

 

[Carlos269]

Can you please answer my questions? I am trying to determine your experience level and I have read your posts.

Carlos,

How many systems have you set up?

hundreds.

How many years of experience do you have in system setup?

35 years

What is your general approach and what test gear or tools do you use for setup?

Equilateral triangle arrangement followed by positioning the listing chair near-field. Final tuning by ear.

You got any more questions?