That works great tho. Take care in the digital audio cables as you would a high end digital audio source.
AppleTV X - I am playing with something new
- Thread starter Xymox
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A fun vid... Making a ATVX.. The fast version.. This does not show the main board rework, that is done by a SMD rework company. It also does not show me potting the cap area.
So it seems, for a person like me who uses a projector and a stereo system/DAC (not interested in multichannel), to get a high quality two channel digital audio, from HDMI to Spdif coax or Toslink, there are at least two options:
1. A switch: https://keydigital.org/category/4k-18g-hdmi-switchers-with-optical/KD-Pro4x1X-2 US$519
2. A dedicated audio extrator, audiopraise vanity pro : https://www.jvbdigital.com/vanitypro.html?id=255624296&quantity= US$1699
AppleTV X hdmi -> Keydigital or Vanity pro (spidf coax or toslink) -> stereo DAC
With this processing, there is the issue of lip sinc. Any suggestions as to how can I solve the problem of AppleTV X lip sinc without using a processor?
I do 2ch mostly. I have not noticed any lipsync issue myself. I have a bunch of clients using it in high end 2ch rigs and they have not mentioned any issue. Doesn't the surround processor processing introduce more processing delay ? Picking it off directly without processing would seem to not need any correction ? BUT I have not looked at this closely. I will look into it.
You will need to do the following on the ATVX..
Settings > Audio / Video > Audio Format > Change format > Stereo
I do not have any experience with the Vanity Pro, but, that sure looks cool. I do not see any reason not to use it. Most likely SPDIF is best. There are guys doing multichannel music with the ATVX and I think they are using the Vanity Pro.
You will need to do the following on the ATVX..
Settings > Audio / Video > Audio Format > Change format > Stereo
I do not have any experience with the Vanity Pro, but, that sure looks cool. I do not see any reason not to use it. Most likely SPDIF is best. There are guys doing multichannel music with the ATVX and I think they are using the Vanity Pro.
I have looked at the key digital. It would be hard to mod that.
This device looks pretty awesome tho. I have not looked inside that one yet.
www.jvbdigital.com
This device looks pretty awesome tho. I have not looked inside that one yet.
VanityPRO Digital Audio Extractor
The VanityPRO is a multi-channel HDMI digital audio extractor with built-in advanced signal processing. It allows the user to convert virtually any compatible
www.jvbdigital.com
A LOT of people have asked me which HDMI cable is best..
This is a hard question. Its really system dependent and the differences can be quite personal. Its tradeoffs. More detail, but kinda artificial. Differences in the Pantone like color accuracy. The 3D feel.. Sound wise its just like differences in cables used on a DAC - but more obvious.
Price alone should not guide you. I have seen high priced cables look/sound bad. A Amazon Basics cable can look and sound quite reasonable. I have now had a lot of clients do a lot of AB..
The newer 48G Cables seem to be performing worse then the older 18G cables.
One cable is winning most ABs in most systems and lenghts. So I wanted to pass this along.
This is really no surprize as Belden makes it. Blue Jeans sells it.
This is a hard question. Its really system dependent and the differences can be quite personal. Its tradeoffs. More detail, but kinda artificial. Differences in the Pantone like color accuracy. The 3D feel.. Sound wise its just like differences in cables used on a DAC - but more obvious.
Price alone should not guide you. I have seen high priced cables look/sound bad. A Amazon Basics cable can look and sound quite reasonable. I have now had a lot of clients do a lot of AB..
The newer 48G Cables seem to be performing worse then the older 18G cables.
One cable is winning most ABs in most systems and lenghts. So I wanted to pass this along.
This is really no surprize as Belden makes it. Blue Jeans sells it.
In your oppinion, which one is probably best among these two, in terms of image/sound?I have looked at the key digital. It would be hard to mod that.
This device looks pretty awesome tho. I have not looked inside that one yet.
VanityPRO Digital Audio Extractor
The VanityPRO is a multi-channel HDMI digital audio extractor with built-in advanced signal processing. It allows the user to convert virtually any compatible
I know you have not compared them, but what is your educated guess?
I was disappointed when I connected the Wireworld Starlight platinum 48 cable to the appletv x. I also felt the Amazon basic was better. Ordered the Belden. Thanks for the tip
Interesting.
I was just discussing this over at the Stereonet forum.
I think it is VERY system dependent for a huge number of reasons. I have a Wireworld platinum 48 and a WIreworld Plat 7. Its weird to go between them. The 48 has more detail, but, looks a tad artificial VS the Plat 7.. BUT the plat 7 seems to be missing detail VS the 48.. .. A long amazon basics I have to my assembly bench tho direct to the TV can look eye popping. I think the ATVX is giving us a REALLY clear view on the cables so we are seeing differences better. Different cables look/sound dramatically different. Its not subtle. Its worth playing around with cables.
BUT... The WW 48 is a 48Gbps cable. I hear often that these 48 Gbps cables look/sound bad. The 18Gbps cables seem to be doing better.
For longer runs, active fiber might even make sense.
I do not think anyone will have quite the same system and results for which wire is best is not only system dependent, its also a personal choice too with tradeoffs.
Belden makes damn good HDMI cable. So the Blue Jeans cable *should* be quite good. BUT. TOO MANY VARIABLES..
AppleTV "X" Owners & Discussion Thread
www.stereonet.com
Many months ago now - the first months after getting the AppleTV X, I unqualifiedly determined that SDR always looked best even on HDR/Dolby Vision programming.
But now, many months later, and having settled in with "tweaks" to my basement OLED system (DJM Electronics Gigafoil v4, etc) (as discussed in above posts in this thread), I find sometimes setting the AppleTV X to use HDR or Dolby Vision for such programs does look better. Sometimes. It seems to be a channel or program decision on my part. For example, I am now watching on Disney Plus "Death and Other Details" but found that Dolby Vision looks flat but SDR looks excellent. Yet "Masters of the Air" on AppleTV Plus I think looks great whether SDR or Dolby Vision, but I prefer Dolby Vision. On Netflix I have found some shows I prefer Dolby Vision/HDR but on others SDR. I am mostly enjoying and not playing around repeatedly switching. One quick switch tells me what I prefer for a show and I stick to it. Maybe this has to do with the AppleTV X continuing to burn in? Maybe it has to do with streaming services having varying streaming quality at different times? No idea. What counts is I luv the AppleTV X.
But now, many months later, and having settled in with "tweaks" to my basement OLED system (DJM Electronics Gigafoil v4, etc) (as discussed in above posts in this thread), I find sometimes setting the AppleTV X to use HDR or Dolby Vision for such programs does look better. Sometimes. It seems to be a channel or program decision on my part. For example, I am now watching on Disney Plus "Death and Other Details" but found that Dolby Vision looks flat but SDR looks excellent. Yet "Masters of the Air" on AppleTV Plus I think looks great whether SDR or Dolby Vision, but I prefer Dolby Vision. On Netflix I have found some shows I prefer Dolby Vision/HDR but on others SDR. I am mostly enjoying and not playing around repeatedly switching. One quick switch tells me what I prefer for a show and I stick to it. Maybe this has to do with the AppleTV X continuing to burn in? Maybe it has to do with streaming services having varying streaming quality at different times? No idea. What counts is I luv the AppleTV X.
I love my ATVX as well. The image is sharper than Kaleidescape, and now with the Taiko Router, it's taken another leap forward (audio too is improved).
I always leave the ATV setting on SDR, which means the ATV will still output HDR when the content is in HDR, but will output SDR otherwise. At least through the Lumagen, HDR always looks better than the same show in SDR (although I haven't spent much time comparing).
I always leave the ATV setting on SDR, which means the ATV will still output HDR when the content is in HDR, but will output SDR otherwise. At least through the Lumagen, HDR always looks better than the same show in SDR (although I haven't spent much time comparing).
Interesting.. I think we have a very clear view of these streams. HDR is just metadata, not more bit depth or detail. These poor cinematographers and DPs. WHo knows how the whole SDR/HDR thing is going on thier end. What displays are they using, what tone maps,, and then what happens in post, again what display and tone maps.. There is also a job called compressionist and this job skill extends to video, not just audio. I can see that things can get pretty messed up because none of them have a actual HDR display monitor because one does not exist and have to rely on tone maps which are really specific for each make/model of display or processor.
Its all such a mess.. What should have happened is a much higher bit depth with a much smaller reliance on perceptual based lossy compression ( HDR )..
So I think your seeing what is REALLY there VERY clearly..
Its all such a mess.. What should have happened is a much higher bit depth with a much smaller reliance on perceptual based lossy compression ( HDR )..
So I think your seeing what is REALLY there VERY clearly..
Yes, well put. So @Steve Bruzonsky what you may in fact be seeing with HDR is more a reflection on the tone mapping your display or processor use.
I always try to aim for watching "as the director intended" so if the content is HDR, I will watch in HDR. That said, I am not using the color filter in the JVC NZ9 to boost light output.
I always try to aim for watching "as the director intended" so if the content is HDR, I will watch in HDR. That said, I am not using the color filter in the JVC NZ9 to boost light output.
I have also seen some weird stuff. Like HDR gets turned on, and the show is "in HDR" yet there is no HDR metadata. So it just shows the native SDR stream.
Interesting. I haven't seen that personally, but you have to keep the Apple TV Setting set to "SDR". It will still display HDR if the show is in HDR. Confusing, for sure.
One thing to keep in mind. I have a VPLGTZ380 handy and my Sony OLED A90J just blows away the projector for picture quality. The OLED shows so much more contrast ratio its insane and this makes it look so much clearer. Projectors have loss that is unavoidable because of the light path and optics. A direct emission OLED pixel is a huge difference and has stunning resolution VS pixels thru the optics. You get into MTF and optical issues with a projector.
So the differences become FAR more clear and objective when using a direct emmisive display like a SOny OLED.
Of course a screen and proj allows for a far more immersive experience allowing a big screen and you can get speakers behind the pic. A huge flat panel is a big issue acoustically.
I use 2 display to eval pic. Well 3.. The Sony A90J - best pic I know of. But I have not had hands on with a Panasonic OLED. I also use a Panasonic Plasma 1080 display. The reason for this is the Panasonic has basiclly no video processing, so I can see the pic native. Getting back at a good distance the plasma can be shockingly good. I also check things on the Sony 380, but, for best viewing its all about the Sony OLED.
Doing TONS and TONS of A/B/C/D/E with all sorts of sources and mods and cables and .... the Sony OLED is my tool for this.
So the differences become FAR more clear and objective when using a direct emmisive display like a SOny OLED.
Of course a screen and proj allows for a far more immersive experience allowing a big screen and you can get speakers behind the pic. A huge flat panel is a big issue acoustically.
I use 2 display to eval pic. Well 3.. The Sony A90J - best pic I know of. But I have not had hands on with a Panasonic OLED. I also use a Panasonic Plasma 1080 display. The reason for this is the Panasonic has basiclly no video processing, so I can see the pic native. Getting back at a good distance the plasma can be shockingly good. I also check things on the Sony 380, but, for best viewing its all about the Sony OLED.
Doing TONS and TONS of A/B/C/D/E with all sorts of sources and mods and cables and .... the Sony OLED is my tool for this.
Yes, I don't disagree that a direct display will be superior to a projector (that said, JVC is killing it with a much better product than anything from Sony - I had a recent Sony laser (95ES) and the JVC NX9 and NZ9 are just much better in just about every way -- but not to digress...)
One thing I wanted to ask you, Chris, is how you deal with having only 1 HDMI output? If you connect the ATVX directly to your display, how do you get the audio out? Does the display have an HDMI output? If so, that's probably compromising the audio signal.
I use a Lumagen 5348 which splits it and reclocks. But ideally, the ATVX would provide two HDMI outputs. What do you think?
One thing I wanted to ask you, Chris, is how you deal with having only 1 HDMI output? If you connect the ATVX directly to your display, how do you get the audio out? Does the display have an HDMI output? If so, that's probably compromising the audio signal.
I use a Lumagen 5348 which splits it and reclocks. But ideally, the ATVX would provide two HDMI outputs. What do you think?
Well yep, it will trigger HDR and show HDR flags and will look like its HDR, but,, if you look at the HDR metadata,,, there isn't any. So no remapping occurs. HDR works by remapping the native SDR stream pixel brightness frame by frame into a new brightness in the HDR space. Then a tone map remaps it again back into SDR for display on a SDR display. So its 2 stages of math, lossy perceptual math, before display. Ideally skipping this will produce a better picture, so staying in SDR and ignoring all that remapping is best. BUT. As Steve points out, maybe DPs and post houses are looking at remapped HDR displayed on unknown tone mapped displays for final decisions on pic. SO, its possible that a HDR encoded stream MIGHT look more accurate because the DP was using tone maps and limited display to master/grade the final picture.
So.. Its complicated..
I can tell right away if the content is actually in HDR because I switch picture modes on the projector. If the extended color space (i.e., for HDR) is not used, the colors are off. I've never seen the Lumagen be wrong - if it's seeing an HDR signal from the ATVX, it will show it, or not.
I would think that nearly 100% of DPs and Post houses will edit on an HDR display if they are releasing in HDR.
I would think that nearly 100% of DPs and Post houses will edit on an HDR display if they are releasing in HDR.
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