AppleTV X - I am playing with something new

[Xymox]

OMG! I just had to demo the Appletvx and I'm ending up buying it.

Some background. My dedicated home theater is still under renovation/construction - when its done with a 14' screen, Sony GTZ-380 with Isco x 1.25 anamorphic lens, 11.7.12, the Appletvx will have its permanent home - but my basement system with it now will have to keep one, too! Its that good!

My basement system is five on wall Totem Audio Tribe III speakers, 4 Dynaudio Atmos in ceiling speakers, some REL subwoofers, Marantz AV7705 SSP, NAD M28 7 channel amp and NAD C298 stereo amp, Kaleidescape Strato C and Alto players, 2021 Apple TV 4k. The latter is still in the system to compare to the Appletvx. I also have an outdoor OTA antenna with a Silicondust HDHomerun OTA 4k/HD tuner using Channels DVR in my Appletv4k/Appletvx for local OTA stuff. Oh - a 2019 LG C2 OLED 65".

I've compared OTA shows like The Flash, NCIS, Superman and Lois. I've compared Paramound Plus shows like 1883 and Star Trek: Picard. I've compared on Youtube the Appletvx Test Clips. Also, I watched a movie on Amazon Prime the other nite, "Ticket To Paradise", set in Hawaii!

The Appletvx is clearly some picture quality improvement - I really have only had it a week now and haven't got to the audio stage yet, though it certainly sounds as good if not better but I've been focusing on video. People in particular look more focused, as if the image is say 4k compared to HD. Black level and background just may seem more black though I don't know how that happens with an OLED. On the Appletvx Test Clips you can see better clarity and brightness, black level, detail compared to the Appletv4k. Star Trekicard and The Flash simply get me more involved with the better picture. Hawaii in the movie looks somewhat - more Hawaii!

Is the improvement worth the money???? Depends on how much you're willing to spend I guess, if anything. But there is an improvement.

Oh - but lets go to the icing on the cake that makes the Appletvx a total no brainer for me!

I have a DJM Electronics Gigafoil v4 which is a small industrial box with a wall wart power supply which intakes and outputs ethernet cables but inside the box it converts ethernet to optical and back to ethernet. GigaFOILv4-INLINE - EMI/RFI Filter for 10/100 and Gigabit Ethernet (djmelectronics.com)

I've been using it with my Kaleidescape downstairs recently, and clear improvement in picture and sound, as Kaleidescape gets its signal not via HDMI but via hard wired ethernet. Audio is clearly even better. I 'd say the better the picture to begin with, the better the video improvement.
Watching all the same stuff as above was clearly better - now 4k Ultra HD and HDR program material actually looks so much more like that as opposed to trying to catch up to a blu ray disc. Star Trek Picard is - amazing! Its like a picture with better brightness, black level, color, detail and resolution.

I also used my standard Appletv4k with the Gigafoil. Definitely a video improvement, but can't say it looked quite as good as just using the plain ol Appletvx. So using the optical Gigafoil v4 with the Appletvx really gets the best video quality at its best.

I wanted to thank Steve again. His words are important. For those who don't know Steve, he is a true hard core AV guy extrodinare. His systems have been in magazines going back decades. He has seen pretty much every piece of gear ever known. He was one of the first people on AVS Forum back when it Alan ran it. Steve still has a high ranking presence at AVS. His experence with AV gear is literally ledgenday.

He called me up after hearing from another client of mine who is also a ledgenday level of high end dealer going back decades. Word of mouth is how most of my units have sold. Steve wanted one IMMD, hahaha..

Steve is no push over for gear. He is much more like a serious high end audio press guy. Seen it all with zillions of hours of experence. He outlined what his approach will be to evaulate it. Really solid plan. No quick AB, no he has a well defined methodolgy. It also REALLY has to live up to its claims and its price point. He outlined all this. Also his review is not nearly done. He is going to spend months with it and report. Like a reviewer does.

So when he says the stuff above, its very conservative and methodical with really good AB and careful objective reasoning.

I was really impressed when he ordered a 2nd one

He also immd picked up on what a number of us had already noticed, ethernet matters.

Thanks again Steve, I look forward to a more in depth study a month down the road.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

I wanted to thank Steve again. His words are important. For those who don't know Steve, he is a true hard core AV guy extrodinare. His systems have been in magazines going back decades. He has seen pretty much every piece of gear ever known. He was one of the first people on AVS Forum back when it Alan ran it. Steve still has a high ranking presence at AVS. His experence with AV gear is literally ledgenday.

He called me up after hearing from another client of mine who is also a ledgenday level of high end dealer going back decades. Word of mouth is how most of my units have sold. Steve wanted one IMMD, hahaha..

Steve is no push over for gear. He is much more like a serious high end audio press guy. Seen it all with zillions of hours of experence. He outlined what his approach will be to evaulate it. Really solid plan. No quick AB, no he has a well defined methodolgy. It also REALLY has to live up to its claims and its price point. He outlined all this. Also his review is not nearly done. He is going to spend months with it and report. Like a reviewer does.

So when he says the stuff above, its very conservative and methodical with really good AB and careful objective reasoning.

I was really impressed when he ordered a 2nd one

He also immd picked up on what a number of us had already noticed, ethernet matters.

Thanks again Steve, I look forward to a more in depth study a month down the road.

Glad to be MAD! But I have calmed down a lot over the years, and frankly most of the folks at this forum have gone through a lot more high end audio gear than I've touched! But I do know what I like to see and hear. Coupling the Appletvx with clean optical (from ethernet) input really makes a noticeable difference! At least on a 65" OLED and no doubt when I get my Sony GTZ-380 projector going! And my high end "press" days are over, but I do post now and then. And this is remarkable enough to post about!

 

[PhoenixRising]

Can't afford the X right this second, tho bought an A2169 in case they go away, so I can be ready !
Are you buying them up Chris ?
Adorama ha? some among others atm..... ~130.00

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

As I continue to use the Appletvx in my basement system with a 65" 2019 LG C2 OLED:

First, I have another 2021 Appletv 4k hooked up. The picture improvement is obvious on all sources, as I simply switch inputs on my SSP and can compare. So the Appletvx is a keeper - whether its worth what it costs is up to you of course.

I continue to like the Appletvx even more by connecting it to a DJM Electronics Gigafoil v4 (ethernet to optical back to ethernet box). Using short 6" Cat6 unshielded ethernet cable from Gigafoil to Appletvx. Although without the Gigafoil converter its darn fine! But adds a bit more improvement overall.

I got a second Appletvx for my theater - still under renovation/upgrade. So I have hooked it up in the basement system without the Gigafoil, so I can compare them.

One thing I found with my LG OLED. I have it set on "Cinema" which gives the best picture. There is also a "home cinema" video setting, and on occasion when you switch sources/channels/programs the LG can default to that other setting. How can I tell? My impression is that the "home cinema" takes 24p movie frame rate and converts to 60p, which I do not care for particularly, a bit too cartoonish for me. If you have an LG OLED,
and if when you use the SDR setting for the Appletvx you do not like the picture, this could well be why.

Which gets to last nite, watching the last episode of "The Marvelous Mrs Maisel" on Amazon Prime. This is in HDR (not Dolby Vision). The beginning is in a dark nightclub and its a great picture for comparison purposes. Regular Appletv 4k is clearly "overshadowed" by the Appletvx here, as Chris would say, the picture simply looks more film like and as originally filmed/photographed. And this is with the Appletvx set to HDR. But then set the Appletvx to SDR, and the picture blossoms even more and looks somewhat better. Its like as a picture, like audio, gets better and simply seems more natural, more relaxing, more you are there, more real to your senses! And throughout this episode, with much brighter scenes, the same holds true.

Chris is of the opinion that generally, 4k tvs look better using the Appletvx SDR mode . Based on his years of experience, winning awards setting up the best 5.1 AV demos at CES back late 90s/earlu 2000s (I was there and I agree). But that not all 4k tvs may process SDR well, some might be setup to make HDR or Dolby Vision look better, so one must experiment. And I have. And so far, although matching dynamic range so that Dolby Vision plays as Dolby Vision, and HDR plays as HDR, bottom line is using SDR seems to give a somewhat clearer window to the original shooting of the video, at least to me. So far.

Even with my regular unmodded Appletv 4k 2021, I compared, and even there I could see at times some benefit to sticking with SDR, vs HDR or Dolby Vision. Interesting.

So far I've been focusing on video. Is audio better? I have not focused on this, as its a lot to just enjoy and get a handle on the video. Which I will be continuing to do for some time.

 

[msimanyi]

I'm seeing the same results in my "testing" on my calibrated 83" Sony A90J. In my case, I'm using a Shunyata Venom ethernet cable (or it could be a Delta... I don't recall) and I had a spare Shunyata Alpha power cord sitting around, so I put both to use with the ATVX.

SDR is still my favorite. Everything just looks so wonderfully clean and... almost creamy. If you know what "bokeh" means in photography, the ATVX seems to impart a similar quality. Backgrounds - especially out-of-focus backgrounds - just look "right."

I did a little audio testing last weekend vs my Kaleidescape. I didn't have much time available for it so I'd say this is just preliminary, but on Top Gun Maverick Kscape presents the slightest better sense of being enveloped by the sound, but only in very complex audio sections. I base that on the scene of the mission, after they drop the bombs and the jets are trying to avoid the SAM defenses. Sound is *very* good on both ATVX and Kscape, but there's the tiniest nod to the KScape system.

If I weren't comparing them back-to-back, I'd never have noticed.

The ATVX is seriously good stuff.

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Tonight I started watching Season 5 that just came out on Peacock via my Appletvx. Looks very nice. However, as a comparison, I decided to buy Season 5 on Kaleidescape. My Strato C uses a Gigafoil v4 as I found video improvement on that as well. The verdict - well, it could be because Peacock may well be more compressed that the better streaming channels, but although on Peacock the picture is very very nice, there is clear improvement on Kaleidescape. But of course the latter has no compression whatsoever so it ain't a fair comparison. But whats amazing is just how good the Appletvx Peacock picture stacks up in comparison. Much better than with the stock Appletv 4k 2021.

 

[Xymox]

I watched something last night that I wanted to post. It really was impressive.

Howls Moving Castle. The sound was just, insanely good. Some of the best I have ever heard from the ATVX. Its animated and the animation is just stunning. I have seen this, and all the Studio Ghibli, many times but I have not seen any of it since I made the ATVX. This was a example of how the ATVX can reach in and pull a crazy good sound track out of something you had zero idea it had.

The movie is a wonderful story, breathtaking animation which is just mesmerizing on the ATVX, but its ithe sound that is just OMFG. This type of movie is not for everyone, but, if you appreciate animation as a art form, this is a good one. I rented it off AppleTV. USE THE ENGLISH DUB as you dont want to read subs because the pic is so awesome. I prefer the English dub as it stars Jean Simmons, Emily Mortimer, Lauren Bacall, Christian Bale, Josh Hutcherson and Billy Crystal.

 

[Xymox]

Tonight I started watching Season 5 that just came out on Peacock via my Appletvx. Looks very nice. However, as a comparison, I decided to buy Season 5 on Kaleidescape. My Strato C uses a Gigafoil v4 as I found video improvement on that as well. The verdict - well, it could be because Peacock may well be more compressed that the better streaming channels, but although on Peacock the picture is very very nice, there is clear improvement on Kaleidescape. But of course the latter has no compression whatsoever so it ain't a fair comparison. But whats amazing is just how good the Appletvx Peacock picture stacks up in comparison. Much better than with the stock Appletv 4k 2021.

And k-scape is so limited VS every streaming app known to man via the ATVX. K-scape, and bluray are nice for specific things, but the cool aspect of a ATVX is the vast amount of material available using every app known to man

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

And k-scape is so limited VS every streaming app known to man via the ATVX. K-scape, and bluray are nice for specific things, but the cool aspect of a ATVX is the vast amount of material available using every app known to man

I agree, KScape has its uses for lots of stuff. And ATVX has lots of additional stuff I can't find on KScape. So I love having both. And now the Appletvx gives me a quality. I really enjoyed watching Season 5 of "The Marvelous Mrs Maisel". Although "only" HDR, which I watched on Appletvx in SDR as it looked better, the picture quality rivaled blu ray/Kaleidescape as far as I could tell (its not offered on Kaleidescape so no way to know for sure).

 

[jhulton]

All I can say as an AppleTVx owner thanks to Bill Parish and Chris, watching the Celtics win game 6 and tonight game 7 on the APTVX, PRICELESS!
The picture is amazing, sound into my Audionet with a KeyDigital box amazing and the game results well hey! I live in Boston!
Thanks Chris for all the hard work!

 

[Low325]

Im glad someone else has a LG C2 and ATVx.…!! Yah it isnt a bad combo. I cant say the audio has improved? Maybe im just expecting a bit more…my TV is on the wall and not on the stand. Big difference having the audio reinforced with the LG stand but I opted for a cleaner look. When i do want my 2CH to come while watching, I do have the audio output via optical to my MU1 and that feeds into the rest of my system. The MU1 is a jitter murderer and it does wonders whatever signal I feed through it.

Coming back to the C2, I never got my tv professionally calibrated, but I always do make an effort to play with the settings, everything from researching online to other forum users from AV freaks. I also run ATVx with SDR. I may have to switch away from Dynamic color as this can over-bleed the reds at times. Another great thing is great with atvx is with skin tones…. a human looks like a live fleshy living substance. Those that also are into photography….skin tones are always a b@#$!

i was hoping for too much though, was really hoping that the intense fast response rate of the C2 would smooth out with ATVX..I dont think it has anything to do with handling noise or jitter, its just a weird by-product of extremely fast response rate of the OLED - good in games, becomes a weird artifact of broadcast tv. And Im too sensitive to that type of thing…

 

[tyree91]

Do we pay $$$$$ for the best source components like Turntables, DACs, and Servers? Of course we do.
Well, the Apple TV X is to Videophiles what Basis, DCS, Aurender and the like are to Audiophiles.
Why wouldn't you take the plunge. With all the source material available to stream via apps, it opens up the video universe the way Hi-Rez Qobuz and great kits do for audio.
We're running the net in via fiber>Fidelizer switch>AQ Vodka>Gigafoil v4>AQ Vodka>Apple TV X>AQ Coffee HDMI DBS>Theta Digital Casablanca V>JVC NX9>Stewart Luxus Deluxe Studiotech 1.3 G4.
The results are stellar, in every way, as they are with the audio as well.
Highly recommended.
Norm

 

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Do we pay $$$$$ for the best source components like Turntables, DACs, and Servers? Of course we do.
Well, the Apple TV X is to Videophiles what Basis, DCS, Aurender and the like are to Audiophiles.
Why wouldn't you take the plunge. With all the source material available to stream via apps, it opens up the video universe the way Hi-Rez Qobuz and great kits do for audio.
We're running the net in via fiber>Fidelizer switch>AQ Vodka>Gigafoil v4>AQ Vodka>Apple TV X>AQ Coffee HDMI DBS>Theta Digital Casablanca V>JVC NX9>Stewart Luxus Deluxe Studiotech 1.3 G4.
The results are stellar, in every way, as they are with the audio as well.
Highly recommended.
Norm

I’ve been experimenting more with the Appletvx SDR vs HDR/Dolby Vision. Also with a stock Appletv4k 2021.

Note: I am using Uptone Audio network Ethernet switcher “B” side to DJM Electronics Gigafoil v4 (internally converts Ethernet to optical and back to Ethernet) to Appletvx.

and I decided to hook up my Lumagen radiance 5348 video processor in the video chain. My reason for this is this will give me the very best, HDR tone mapping compared to what my.2019 LG C2 65” OLED can do


watching “Ghosts of Beirut” on Showtime which has excellent 4K picture quality and 5.1 sound and can be watched with Dolby Vision or in SDR

First even with the stock Appletv4k I noticed that the picture seem somewhat faded, colors dulled some, not as clear using Dolby Vision. No doubt the picture is clearly much better in SDR

Next with the Appletv4k. In SDR the picture is even much better than the stock.Appletv4k. And in comparison, he Dolby Vision picture despite excellent tone mapping by the Lumagen it’s somewhat faded, not as detailed or colorful, etc..

I’ve noticed the same as above watching “Silo” on Appletv Plus!

I wondered whether the top-of-the-line HDR tone mapping of the Lumagen combined with the power, jitter etc improvements in the Appletvx would result in elevating HDR/Dolby Vision performance vs SDR. But it doesn’t which leads me to believe that the HDR and Dolby Vision in the Appletv4k are very poorly implemented. And if this is the case, and the Appletv4k streamers you can bet it’s no better in other company streamers.

even if you have not upgraded to the Appletvx, whatever your streamer box, or if you are simply using your TV for HDR and or Dolby Vision, you should try SDR vs HDR/Dolby Vision and see what you think!

 

[Zeotrope]

Chris is of the opinion that generally, 4k tvs look better using the Appletvx SDR mode .

Setting the Apple TV to SDR WILL output HDR when the content is HDR.

Lumagen does not accept Dolby Vision, so you were 100% not watching Dolby Vision content, @Steve Bruzonsky !

I have the same setup: ATVX -> Lumagen 5348 -> JVC NZ9
I set the ATVX to output 4K SDR (which outputs HDR when the content is natively HDR). Using Lumagen DTM, picture quality is Stunning. It’s better than Kaleidoscape and makes regular ATV unwatchable.

 

[Xymox]

Setting the Apple TV to SDR WILL output HDR when the content is HDR.

Lumagen does not accept Dolby Vision, so you were 100% not watching Dolby Vision content, @Steve Bruzonsky !

I have the same setup: ATVX -> Lumagen 5348 -> JVC NZ9
I set the ATVX to output 4K SDR (which outputs HDR when the content is natively HDR). Using Lumagen DTM, picture quality is Stunning. It’s better than Kaleidoscape and makes regular ATV unwatchable.

I am watching Silo right now.. Typing during a break on ep 4..

Yea, I cant watch a stock ATV.. What really gets me now after having it a year is the sound..

"which outputs HDR when the content is natively HDR"

So you have the match dynamic range on ?

Big difference in pic with HDR metadata encorded content if you turn on HDR and if you turn it off for the same show to AB. I was under the impression the AppleTV just outputs the SDR stream without the HDR metadata ? I suppose it might be a flag in the the data and something like a Lumigen might still be able to find it and flip to it.

 

[Zeotrope]

Correct, I have Match Dynamic Range set to on.
It’s not very intuitive, but with the picture mode set to 4K SDR, it will output HDR when the content is HDR. If you set the picture mode to HDR it will convert everything to HDR (and presumably P3), somehow.

 

[msimanyi]

If you set it to SDR and turn off Match Dynamic Range, it should stay in SDR.

 

[MRJAZZ]

I am working up a post on the latest gen ATV. What garbarge. Its abhorrent. I will do a post here on what all I have measured and discovered about it. I was hoping maybe I could use it, but, no way, no matter what i do with it its a big step down in pic and sound quality no matter what mods I do.

How does one differentiate the latest Apple 4k streamer, from the (better) previous generation?

Thanks.....

 

[PhoenixRising]

How does one differentiate the latest Apple 4k streamer, from the (better) previous generation?

Thanks.....

2021 ATV 2nd Gen model A2169 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0933D3SN6/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_9?smid=ALAQLAKJ574UN&psc=1

 

[Xymox]

Correct, I have Match Dynamic Range set to on.
It’s not very intuitive, but with the picture mode set to 4K SDR, it will output HDR when the content is HDR. If you set the picture mode to HDR it will convert everything to HDR (and presumably P3), somehow.

I have seen a LG OLED STILL flip to HDR on HDR content even tho the ATVX is set to SDR and match content is only set to frame rate.

SOMEHOW the LG automagically found HDR in a stream even tho I had everything set to SDR..

The LG's are annoying for me, WAY to much automagical going on and hard to tame. They can flip presets during a stream going HDR then SDR going to a commercial,, and have funky settings.. Its hard to get hold of a LG and trun EVERYT BIT OF AUTOMAGICAL OFF.. hahaha..

But its looking at something to do this. There must be flags or something its reading. The Sony OLEDs just seem to work as expected and can be knocked into submission easily.