Are CDs dying out in the market place?

[DonH50]

One of the worst things I saw when CDs arrived and began to take over shelf space was the dearth of small-volume pressings that were made into CDs. It gradually improved over time, but a lot of good music was lost because CDs were never made of the masters (if they were even available).

Is the same thing happening with the Internet takeover? I don't know, my system is not connected to the 'net (though it could be), nor do I listen to iTunes/MP3s/whatever. Heck, I still buy my movies rather than do the Netflix bit...

 

[caesar]

Around the holidays I read a book by a former Rolling Stone editor, Fred Goodman, called Fortune's Fool. It is about Edgar Bronfman Jr. and his (mis) adventures in the music industry. One of the major takeaways from the book is that people want things for free. Before the internet, you would have to physically steal something to get it for free. With Napster, and the like, you can just download music for free. Bronfman (a billionaire - atl least at one point in his life) admitted that even his kids download music for free. So that 's why you can't find a local cd store - the business is dying.

Of course, the downside is not just a lack of cd stores. It is that there will be less and less sophisticated albums in the future. Who would want to spend 6-12 months in the studio working with an experienced record producer, pouring their heart and soul into a statement record, only to see the fruits of their labor spread like ashes in the wind across the cyberspace? Other than big guns like Springstien, U2, Red Hot Chili Peppers, etc., probably no one. The newer bands will just record themselves. And if successful, will use the record companies to help master their recordings, sell t-shirts, book tours, etc.

Selling cell phone ring tones may be the most lucrative proposition...

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Of course, the downside is not just a lack of cd stores. It is that there will be less and less sophisticated albums in the future.

What does sophisticated mean in your view?

 

[caesar]

What does sophisticated mean in your view?

It's what I said above: "Who would want to spend 6-12 months in the studio working with an experienced record producer, pouring their heart and soul into a statement record, only to see the fruits of their labor spread like ashes in the wind across the cyberspace?"

A great producer will be an advisor, a sounding board, an arranger, etc. They also have an ability to analyze a band's strengths and weaknesses and help compensate for those by pushing the band where they may have never been, finding other musicians to help create a certain sound or mood, etc.

Check out some of the vignette's on Rolling Stone's greatest albums:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/l...e-19691231/astral-weeks-van-morrison-19691231

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/l...691231/born-to-run-bruce-springsteen-19691231

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/l...le-on-main-street-the-rolling-stones-19691231

Some of Bob Dylan's great albums may have taken 3 days to record, but they were in gestatation for 10 years, but he is pretty unique. For many other artists, it took a lot of hours in the studio to produce the great records and it took a lot of support from a great record producer and the record company.

 

[Lee]

I have all sorts of observations on this.

Nearly every month, sometimes week, my local Barnes & Noble and Borders is decreasing CD shelf space for CDs. Fry's has completely shifted its classical selection to cheesey budget compilation CDs. SACDs and DVD-Audios are almost non-existant.

In many ways, I think Blu-ray is the last physical format.

On the positive side, LP selection is actually growing.

I wonder if people do not see CDs of unfamiliar music if they will try them...?

I believe there is intrinsic value, much like with independent audio stores, to having the ability to visit a store, see the product and try it.

Maybe I'm an old fart now but I also like the social aspects of visiting a store and hanging out and asking questions and for recommendations, special orders, etc.

 

[caesar]

I have all sorts of observations on this.

Nearly every month, sometimes week, my local Barnes & Noble and Borders is decreasing CD shelf space for CDs. Fry's has completely shifted its classical selection to cheesey budget compilation CDs. SACDs and DVD-Audios are almost non-existant.

In many ways, I think Blu-ray is the last physical format.

On the positive side, LP selection is actually growing.

I wonder if people do not see CDs of unfamiliar music if they will try them...?

I believe there is intrinsic value, much like with independent audio stores, to having the ability to visit a store, see the product and try it.

Maybe I'm an old fart now but I also like the social aspects of visiting a store and hanging out and asking questions and for recommendations, special orders, etc.

Lee, the sad conclusion from observations of cd stores and shelf space decreasing, not enough people find "intrinsic value" in having these around. When Tower Records shuttered its doors, it was the end. Now one would think some intellectual communities, such as college towns, would still have some music stores, but the students are the first to share the music with their friends. Unfortunately, there is just no economic value behind this. Otherwise, someone would have stepped in and filled the void. Even a billionaire like Bronfman failed (although he is failing slower than his competitors due to the large empire he has build up).

To compensate for this, internet forums have popped up for people to "associate" and discuss music, even on sites like Amazon.com.

 

[caesar]

I believe there is intrinsic value, much like with independent audio stores, to having the ability to visit a store, see the product and try it.

Maybe I'm an old fart now but I also like the social aspects of visiting a store and hanging out and asking questions and for recommendations, special orders, etc.

Just saw this headline this morning: Borders bookseller faces bankruptcy. Faced with stiff competition from online book retailers like Amazon, plus the proliferation of e-books designed for devices like the Amazon Kindle and Apple’s iPad, Borders faces bankruptcy....

Despite leading the market in the 1990’s, the company was sidelined by the rise of Amazon and the shift in consumer habits that shifted from brick-and-mortar retailing to online. The company was late in catching up to the online demand, which is now evolving to include downloadable e-books designed for handheld devices like the Kindle and iPad......

Blockbusters stores have pretty much shut down as well.

Bottom line: people prefer convenience.

 

[mep]

Going to a video store was never convenient nor fun. Going to a bookstore is another type vibe entirely. Back to the point of this thread. CDs are dying in the commerical market place and it won't be long until CDs are no longer even made. Digital audio will cease to exist as a physical medium. It will only exist on your computer as files that you downloaded.

 

[fas42]

It will only exist on your computer as files that you downloaded.

... which is very, very dicey. I, for one, would always want something physical to represent the recorded work. As a person who has had to deal with computer technology for nearly 35 years, and plenty of experience seeing that backups are usually the one thing that is guaranteed to fail in the heat of the moment, I would have little faith in online storage ...

Frank

 

[Jay_S]

For the time being the CD supply is plentiful outside of B&M stores. I was chasing down some titles from the "What's Spinning Tonight" thread and ended up on Amazon's UK site. Even at current exchange rates, there are some great buys there. Some titles go for only 40 - 50% of the price offered on Amazon's U.S. site. It's fun to look around and there is a somewhat different selection of titles too.

 

[mep]

Get them while you can Jay.

 

[FrantzM]

... which is very, very dicey. I, for one, would always want something physical to represent the recorded work. As a person who has had to deal with computer technology for nearly 35 years, and plenty of experience seeing that backups are usually the one thing that is guaranteed to fail in the heat of the moment, I would have little faith in online storage ...

Frank

So store it on your PC ... on a tape ... On something physical if that suits your fancy ...
Truly I think we are getting nostalgic and showing our age ... There was nothing great about a CD .. LP OTOH, the jackets, the covers, the inlays could be (and in some instances were) almost Art Object .. CD "jewel" boxes were too small for that .. So .. really good riddance ... Welcome to the new world and let's work on making it better ..Those discussions however sterile they might seem at times ("Digital the best"!! "No! Analog The best" !!) etc, ultimately demonstrate that there is progress to be made in sound reproduction.

Reproducing music in a faithful manner is the goal .. the medium is just ... a medium ... An accessory to an end ...

 

[mep]

Frantz-You are so right. However, I find it to be a little disconcerting that I *own* a medium that only exists as software code on my hard drive. I can't see it, I can't touch it. I know it's there and I can hear it, it's just a little odd.

 

[rblnr]

So let's say CDs die out in the next 5 - 7 years and we go strictly to downloads. Anyone worried that the downloads, by and large, will only be of a quality inferior to CD?

 

[RBFC]

So let's say CDs die out in the next 5 - 7 years and we go strictly to downloads. Anyone worried that the downloads, by and large, will only be of a quality inferior to CD?

I"m seeing just the opposite. Sites like www.hdtracks.com and www.itrax.com are growing. They offer lots of redbook level music, and the high-res sections are growing every day. I'm working on assembling a computer server now, so I'm banking on the future of downloads.

Lee

 

[rblnr]

I own a lot of stuff from those sites and others. Problem is, they're a tiny fraction of the music that's out there, so mostly I buy CDs and rip them. Problem I'm suggesting is that w/the death of CDs, will the downloads 'by and large' be lower rez than the CDs they replace.

 

[RBFC]

Good questions. If the studios are recording at certain resolutions, it shouldn't cost them any more to make the files available at redbook or above. This added production cost is one of the reasons that studios didn't hang onto SACD, DVD-A, etc. for the niches they served. Without additional costs to produce separate high-resolution media, it wouldn't seem to be a big issue.

Lee

 

[rblnr]

Agreed that it shouldn't be an issue, but 99% of all downloads now are below CD quality. IIRC, downloads surpassed CD sales awhile back, which means that the majority of music purchased now is below CD quality. And if the masses go to a cloud-based/instant-streaming model, presumably smaller files will be the choice there, maybe even moreso than downloads.

 

[LL21]

I share RBLNR's concerns... Sure, studios CAN do whatever they want...but with margins compressing in the music space (4 bucks for an mp3 download of gaxzillions of albums)...and an i-tune world that has not demanded higher resolution BACK to 16:44.1 CD let alone beyond CD...why would they bother? Then there is the DAC needed to take 24.192...again "easy" to install in any new component...but why bother? In fact, if they start selling hi-res and "ordinary folk" start downloading them without realizing they cannot play it back on their equipment...they get pissed off with the constant changes. Why would they risk this?

Sure...maybe on select music, you find hi-res...but there is a risk it does not hit mainstream for a while.

The interesting corrolary is transports...with very few massmarket buyers of dedicated CDs today...the manufacturers have found margins in SOTA transports...maybe a last hurrah before the candle flickers out...but still. Do hi-rez downloads become available in the future at much higher premiums "just because they can?"

meanwhile, i am sitting out servers for the moment only because they keep advancing at such a fast pace...more SS storage, better interfaces, less complex jigsaw puzzle to lower jitter, etc. i (may) even pick up a once SOTA transport for cheap and use it for 5+ years. And in the meantime, i am hoovering up Amazon CDs for 4 bucks each while they last. in fact, i just got Penguin Guide to Classical and expect within 12 months, i will own every classical CD i have ever wanted to own...got a few hundred already over the last years. \Probably same with Jazz and blues... then at that point, i am fairly independent of hi-rez/no hi-rez/no CDs except for modern music.

Final question...has anyone noticed a surge in 24/96 resmasters on 16:44.1? Rudy Van Gelder Remastsers, all of U2 and Police works...just picked up Four Seasons by Nevill Mariner...redone on 24/96 onto CD. Also Blue Note. So far, they have been amazing compared to my old 16/44s...i have replaced every single one o fthe ones i found "unlistenable".

 

[LL21]

Note that while i have been impressed with Blu-ray audio and 24/96...relative to SOTA 16.44.1, i have not been blown away. an in many cases, poorly executed 24/96 (like SACD and DVD A before that),are not that great, while well executed 16/44.1 can be pretty exceptional. with s/hand Zanden DAC, i dont feel like i miss much particularly relative to the fact that i can get just about any album i want in 16/44.1.