ASR Audio from Germany is now available at Sunny Components Inc
- Thread starter Sunny
- Start date
So denying.
I’ve heard ASR a couple of times over the years, and it always sounded lean, slow, and uninvolving to me. Do you have any proof that a separate power supply/battery can deliver power over a 3-meter cable as quickly as an integrated power supply does through a solid bus bar?
Please refer to Audio Research 2 box Reference 10, Pass Labs 3 box Pre-amplifier, CH Precision L10, M10, L1 with provision for X1 power supplies, c1.2 DAC, P1 Phono stage, D 1.5 CD Player, Based upon your findings all the products are slow?
I have been involved with very high performance audio for 25 years. Over the years I have come to know several upstanding and honorable designers. Every designer chooses a path for a certain model because they have a brilliant idea to get to a certain level of performance. Most designers have some unbelievable friends in the audio community. We sit and argue about products but these manufacturers seek help, advice and input with their peers. They then develop some unbelievable products. We cannot possibly own all these products. I am very confident with my ability to decifer whether I like a said sonic presentation. Is this presentation correct ? If not, I will work harder on setup. If I still miss, seek help from other experts in the industry. Our community is loaded with pals that are there to help you. Based upon your assumptions, ARC Reference 10 Pre-amplifier 2 box, Pass Labs 3 box pre-amplifier, Several CH Precision products are all slow? Wow !
- Separate power supplies can help to reduce noise and improve the overall sound quality by ensuring that each component has a dedicated and stable power source.
- Reduced Interference: By isolating the power supplies, the risk of interference between different components is reduced, leading to a cleaner and more stable sound.
- Enhanced Stability: Separate power supplies can also help to improve the stability of the audio system, especially when dealing with high power demands.
- Battery power enhances your performance to a whole new level.
Steve williams
Site Founder, Site Co-Owner, Administrator
FWIW my Lamm Signature ML3 amp and LL1 Signature preamp and LP1 Signature are all dual mono dual power supply for a total of 11 boxes. So hang in there Sunny. ASR is a killer product
Where did I mention preamplifiers? Is the ASR Emitter II a preamplifier?
I specifically emphasized the importance of fast power delivery in power amplifiers—specifically in this case, the ASR Emitter.
The same applies to all CH products. None of them share the same topology as ASR. Even those with separate power supplies (either preamplifier or source components) are completely irrelevant to this discussion. Unlike ASR Emitter CH products have integrated power supplies and can function perfectly fine without an external one. That’s their normal operation. The additional power supply (X-1) is simply an extra to the integrated one. Among CH power amplifiers only the M10 has a separate power supply, and while it is a power amplifier, its design is entirely different from ASR. Still, given that it has a separate power supply—unlike integrated models like the M1.1 or A1.5—it likely sounds lean.
I would have expected better examples, like the four-piece Wavac 833, the two-piece Line Magnetic 845, or the Naim Hi-Cap. The Naim Hi-Cap is similar to the CH X1—it’s an additional power supply/capacitor bank complementing to the internal one. The Wavac 833 has separate power supplies and sounds terrible, but even the two-piece version with integrated power supplies doesn’t sound great. The Line Magnetic 845 has separate transformers and, as expected, doesn’t sound lean. The real question is: why didn’t they choose to separate the power supplies instead? That’s something to contemplate.
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I specifically mentioned the drawbacks of separate power supplies in solid-state amplifiers. My statement also applies to the Lamm ML3 to some extent, though it’s a slightly different case.
While separating the power supply is a poor design choice for solid-state amplifiers, it can work to some degree for tube amplifiers. This is because tube amps operate with very high B+ voltages—some around 1000V—whereas solid-state amps typically require only ±35-70V rails. The negative effects of a separate power supply become less pronounced as voltage increases. Additionally, tube amplifiers draw less current since they produce lower power compared to SS counterparts, and the current draw decreases even further as B+ voltage rises.
As a result, while it is possible to use separate power supplies in tube amps, I’m confident they would still be faster with an integrated power supply. Otherwise, every manufacturer would be doing it.
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you still haven’t provided any real engineering references to support your claim. if you’re gonna keep beating this drum, cough up the references please
Alright then, but I didn’t know that we weren’t allowed to share our opinions on this public forum and were only expected to congratulate the announcement maker. If we’re not going to share our opinions and are only here to congratulate distributors for carrying brands, what will be the function of this forum—promotion?
Well, the thick ASR power cables have probably very low resistance and the power boards have local capacitance, including large capacitance distributed Wima film capacitors.
BTW, solid bus bars can handle large currents but are not fast - litz wire would be much faster - assuming that by fast you address transient current.
Amplifier design involves compromises. Separate power supplies involve higher cost and lack of convenience - every review of the ASR emitter II exclusive and owners as me addressed this aspect. But IMO from a technical point of view and real measured performance a separate power supply is a much better option. But as they say, convenience help sales, inconvenience does not.
BTW, a few weeks ago I was listening to your dream amplifier - the Krell KAS Standard. A separate power supply with external massive copper gold plated buss bars.
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I remember asking Fredriech if he would make the umbilical longer for me since I had the PSU in a different room and I thought that I may be putting too much stress on cable/connector in order to reach.
He said he could/would but strongly recommended against it likely for the very reason suggested by mtemur.
My takeaway is that mtemur is on target for having concerns with separate PSU in power amp designs, but that ASR was also aware of the potential for compromised performance yet had the engineering chops to overcome any downsides.
I am reminded of how securely that 2 in.(plus) diameter umbilical cable literally clamped on to the components at both ends. Like no other connectors I’ve seen in any audio component.
He said he could/would but strongly recommended against it likely for the very reason suggested by mtemur.
My takeaway is that mtemur is on target for having concerns with separate PSU in power amp designs, but that ASR was also aware of the potential for compromised performance yet had the engineering chops to overcome any downsides.
I am reminded of how securely that 2 in.(plus) diameter umbilical cable literally clamped on to the components at both ends. Like no other connectors I’ve seen in any audio component.
The big positives of separate power supplies - no mechanical vibration due to transformers and much less electromagnetic induced noise in the signal components.
Considering we discuss the performance of digital electronics down to -130 or -140 dB, these factors are extremely relevant.
Considering we discuss the performance of digital electronics down to -130 or -140 dB, these factors are extremely relevant.
I shared my opinion about the ASR Emitter amplifier only after another member had shared his. His opinion was positive, while mine was negative regarding how the ASR sounds. So, I didn’t turn an announcement thread into a regular discussion about ASR’s sound—it had already become one. I don’t understand why I am the only one being warned that it is an announcement thread. Why didn’t you warn the members who wrote positive things about ASR’s sound? Is it acceptable to discuss a product’s sound in an announcement thread only if the opinions are positive while warning those who express negative opinions?
I am not amplifier designer so I do not comment about long vs short vs ultra-short connection between PSU and Amplifier but I think claiming the sound is lean because the cable is long is not accepted. I bet you will hear the same sound (not even 1% better) from ASR (or Lamm ML3 or CH M10) if you use shorter connection.
first amendment rights. You’re free to share your opinion, but we’re free to ask you questions as well. I think you’re applying an unfounded supposition to your experience. It may be the speaker amplifier interface that you were hearing. I’ve made that mistake many a time when misjudging equipment based on speaker amplifier synergy. In the last five years, I’ve done a ton of amplifier rolling on different speakers of varying transparency, and it’s remarkable how you can affect the sound with your amplifier choice.
I remember the shock of listening to ASR with YG speakers in Munich around 2010 or 2012. The impact was likely amplified because I heard the ASR setup right after the full MBL system. After experiencing excellent sound in the MBL room, listening to the ASR + YG setup felt like trying to eat plastic fruit made for display. It was a poor choice of room for ASR, being directly across from the MBL room.
I didn’t judge ASR’s sound based on its design. At first, I wasn’t even aware that ASR had a separate power supply. After listening to it, I found it lean, slow, and uninvolving—and this impression has remained consistent across various ASR amps I listened that paired with different speakers over the years. For me it has always sounded as I described. Using discrete op-amps slightly improves the sound. The technical details I mentioned are simply an explanation of why it sounds that way.
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