https://exchange.positive-feedback.com/ has just been added to the list. Thank you Andre Marc [spotted in another thread].
Tom
Tom
AudiogoN Alternatives - The Master List
- Thread starter treitz3
- Start date
The fact that all of these alternative sites exists is good news. But to have great news, we need one to rise to the top and be the dominant player that audiogon was. In it's hay day, audiogon had more stuff to buy than probably everyone else lumped together. To be that effective now, I would need to advertise what ever it is I want to sell on multiple sites, keep each of them updated as I change a price, etc.
I'm still convinced if one of the sites listed above was willing to invest the $ to advertise all over the web and, (for a while) offer some incentives to advertise there, they could take over the business.
Maybe in a separate thread, I would love for someone to explain to me (and others) what has happened at agon. I know they were bought and web site was changed, but they seem to have implemented a "let's see how fast we can screw our customers, provide crappy service and pi$$ everyone off" attitude. Do they really believe that they can continue operating in this mode and not go out of business?
Who are the new owners and what is their background? Audiogon, for all practical purposes, ran a monopoly that 90+% of their customers were very satisfied with and their business seemed to be growing. Why would anyone want to mess that with that kind of a model?
I just don't understand.
I'm still convinced if one of the sites listed above was willing to invest the $ to advertise all over the web and, (for a while) offer some incentives to advertise there, they could take over the business.
Maybe in a separate thread, I would love for someone to explain to me (and others) what has happened at agon. I know they were bought and web site was changed, but they seem to have implemented a "let's see how fast we can screw our customers, provide crappy service and pi$$ everyone off" attitude. Do they really believe that they can continue operating in this mode and not go out of business?
Who are the new owners and what is their background? Audiogon, for all practical purposes, ran a monopoly that 90+% of their customers were very satisfied with and their business seemed to be growing. Why would anyone want to mess that with that kind of a model?
I just don't understand.
Unfortunately, the decline of Audiogon is a major blow and, while this effort to list alternatives is welcomed and very useful, I don't think these other US sites listed here measure up just yet.
The standard for a classified ad site couldn't be simpler - or harder. Do things sell at the correct market price? Nobody knowledgeable with good audiophile equipment puts it on Craig's list because it remains a bargain basement shoppers site. The good stuff was all on Audiogon. That's where that weird human sub-species, known as audiophiles, went to shop. McIntosh was the one exception - it always worked better on eBay. I think the reason is obvious: MAC gear is "collectible," but it's not considered "audiophile" by many, though that is changing.
In the early days, many of us sold millions of dollars of equipment there. That's not an exaggeration. Qualified audiophiles were all over the site looking for gear to buy.
But the new owners ruined the site not by slightly increasing fees (a good rule of thumb for the performance of classified sites is cost to advertise - if it's free, don't expect sales results), which I find perfectly reasonable compared to the 13% gouging eBay now inflicts (another ruined site), but by making placing ads incredibly difficult and at times impossible for weeks and weeks during the ownership transition.
To this day, the site is difficult to navigate compared to the old site. Yes, the old site was incredibly simplistic and hokey. But it WORKED well. The new site is an pseudo professional graphic designer's idea of what a modern website should look like. I can't tell you what a relief it is to my eyes to leave the new site and go to pages that still remain in the old format - the Audiogon Blue Book pages for example, lame typeface, old-fashioned colors, and all. There is a clarity that is simply absent from the new site.
I wouldn't be surprised if the new Audiogon makes a lot more money even with fewer users because of all the ads cluttering the sites pages. My educated guess is that it's still the best game in town in the U.S.. Shame. But hopefully, not for long. We deserve better.
The standard for a classified ad site couldn't be simpler - or harder. Do things sell at the correct market price? Nobody knowledgeable with good audiophile equipment puts it on Craig's list because it remains a bargain basement shoppers site. The good stuff was all on Audiogon. That's where that weird human sub-species, known as audiophiles, went to shop. McIntosh was the one exception - it always worked better on eBay. I think the reason is obvious: MAC gear is "collectible," but it's not considered "audiophile" by many, though that is changing.
In the early days, many of us sold millions of dollars of equipment there. That's not an exaggeration. Qualified audiophiles were all over the site looking for gear to buy.
But the new owners ruined the site not by slightly increasing fees (a good rule of thumb for the performance of classified sites is cost to advertise - if it's free, don't expect sales results), which I find perfectly reasonable compared to the 13% gouging eBay now inflicts (another ruined site), but by making placing ads incredibly difficult and at times impossible for weeks and weeks during the ownership transition.
To this day, the site is difficult to navigate compared to the old site. Yes, the old site was incredibly simplistic and hokey. But it WORKED well. The new site is an pseudo professional graphic designer's idea of what a modern website should look like. I can't tell you what a relief it is to my eyes to leave the new site and go to pages that still remain in the old format - the Audiogon Blue Book pages for example, lame typeface, old-fashioned colors, and all. There is a clarity that is simply absent from the new site.
I wouldn't be surprised if the new Audiogon makes a lot more money even with fewer users because of all the ads cluttering the sites pages. My educated guess is that it's still the best game in town in the U.S.. Shame. But hopefully, not for long. We deserve better.
Another site that's worth noting is www.hifihunter.com/us. Another big search engine covering lots of second hand sites across the globe.
I posted this in another topic thread, and it probably should be added here
http://www.usaudiomart.com
http://www.usaudiomart.com
Thank you for posting the master list. I have found HiFi Shark to be very useful in looking for equipment.
Just a data point to add based upon recent experience:
Over the summer, I listed about a dozen sets of cables on several sites....Audio Asylum, Agon, AudioMart US, HeadFi, and Ebay.
Prices, descriptions, pictures were the same for all listings.
Selection varied from mid 3 figure (used value) to less than $50 (used).
1 sale from HeadFi
1 sale from AudioMart
10 sales from EBAY
-0- sales from Agon and Audio Asylum
This experiment mirrored my previous experiences- If I want to sell something, Ebay is the most efficient mechanism. In the past I have sold everything from vintage tube, to high end SS. Ebay sales have consistently been the quickest to consumate and most profitable for me. That said, paying them 13% does bother me...
Again, just my experience and another data point to add.
Just a data point to add based upon recent experience:
Over the summer, I listed about a dozen sets of cables on several sites....Audio Asylum, Agon, AudioMart US, HeadFi, and Ebay.
Prices, descriptions, pictures were the same for all listings.
Selection varied from mid 3 figure (used value) to less than $50 (used).
1 sale from HeadFi
1 sale from AudioMart
10 sales from EBAY
-0- sales from Agon and Audio Asylum
This experiment mirrored my previous experiences- If I want to sell something, Ebay is the most efficient mechanism. In the past I have sold everything from vintage tube, to high end SS. Ebay sales have consistently been the quickest to consumate and most profitable for me. That said, paying them 13% does bother me...
Again, just my experience and another data point to add.
I too have bought a number of things on Audiomarkt.de over the last two or three years with no problems at all - France, Germany and the Netherlands.
My experience is that Audiogon the high end items sell faster. I am looking for alternatives, so always posting elsewhere.
USAudiomart is quite good and usually sells if you wait long enough (before you die,
) it typically sells. It isn't that long but it seems like it when you are selling something. There are no fees, so that is worth the wait for the higher end items.
USAudiomart is quite good and usually sells if you wait long enough (before you die,
) it typically sells. It isn't that long but it seems like it when you are selling something. There are no fees, so that is worth the wait for the higher end items.
That's true. But Audiogon is also a magnet for fraud related to the big ticket items. For example, I wouldn't take anything but a wire for international shipment. The buyer agreed. Then he falsely claimed I didn't give him the correct routing number so I have to accept a money order instead. Audiogon won't do anything because they don't approve of wires due to "fraudulent activity." I am pretty sure the buyer just wants to kite a check and steal the gear. I warned Audiogon about this. They don't care. I hope nobody gets their gear stolen from a check kiting scheme on Audiogon. But if they do, they should sue Audiogon. Audiogon tries to force folks into using forms of payment like money order or cashiers checks. Most people think certified funds are good money. But they are not. Only a wire is good money on international deals.
My experience is that Audiogon the high end items sell faster. I am looking for alternatives, so always posting elsewhere.
USAudiomart is quite good and usually sells if you wait long enough (before you die,
The problem is that if you use a wire and the deal goes bad, Audiogon will not enter into dispute resolution. This is what they told me in an email:
"We do not authorize or condone wire transfer as a payment method due to the high rate of fraudulent activity with this. Please use an approved payment method in order to be eligible for Audiogon's dispute resolution assistance."
Stop - wire transfers can be compromised.
STOP - WIRE TRANSFERS CAN BE COMPROMISED.
Do NOT assume that once the wire is in your account that you are free & clear. There is a lot of dirt in bank policies [fine print] that can come back to haunt.
If I was to accept a large "wire" transfer I would:
#1 Have it enter an account that had minimal money, and I had no other accounts at that bank.
#2 I would get in >>>writing<<< from a bank officer that the money had CLEARED.
#3 I would then take the amount of "wired" money in GREEN [multi-color with strips] CASH and go to an unrelated bank to deposit [or give it to my wife].
#4 Only then would I ship.
It is HELL out there,
zz.
STOP - WIRE TRANSFERS CAN BE COMPROMISED.
Do NOT assume that once the wire is in your account that you are free & clear. There is a lot of dirt in bank policies [fine print] that can come back to haunt.
If I was to accept a large "wire" transfer I would:
#1 Have it enter an account that had minimal money, and I had no other accounts at that bank.
#2 I would get in >>>writing<<< from a bank officer that the money had CLEARED.
#3 I would then take the amount of "wired" money in GREEN [multi-color with strips] CASH and go to an unrelated bank to deposit [or give it to my wife
].#4 Only then would I ship.
It is HELL out there,
zz.
IRS Big money cashed @ bank:
I would not have a problem taking $20K CASH out of a bank.
>>>>> IF <<<<<<
I was to immediately go to an unrelated bank & deposit the $20K CASH.
Very Easy explanation to those "higher ? authorities".
zz.
I would not have a problem taking $20K CASH out of a bank.
>>>>> IF <<<<<<
I was to immediately go to an unrelated bank & deposit the $20K CASH.
Very Easy explanation to those "higher ? authorities".
zz.
I tried that once. I had a big Pharmacist client that got into a pinch. I took $20,000 cash out of my trust account so I could post his bond. I posted the bond and re-deposited the leftover proceeds back into the account. My bank was pissed off at me for requesting such a large amount of cash. I got an IRS cash audit a few months later. Of course, I did nothing wrong and the IRS cleared me but it wasn't pleasant to deal with that crap. I will never do that again.
You are correct that wires can be reversed after the fact. But that's usually only the case where law enforcement gets involved and YOUR BANK must agree with the wiring bank to reverse the transaction. That's a pretty rare situation, IMO. It's a much safer form of payment that an international money order from a guy that has limited feedback on audiogon. There are only degrees of safety. There's no perfect form of payment.
Michael.
You are correct that wires can be reversed after the fact. But that's usually only the case where law enforcement gets involved and YOUR BANK must agree with the wiring bank to reverse the transaction. That's a pretty rare situation, IMO. It's a much safer form of payment that an international money order from a guy that has limited feedback on audiogon. There are only degrees of safety. There's no perfect form of payment.
Michael.
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