Dont know if each driver of this Avalon is angle adjustable. My speakers stand 7 feet has adjustable drivers. The correct angle adjustment to listening position present sound that is so effortlessly speakerless with musical instruments located in their places much much better than not adjusting those angles.
Avalon Osiris , my next project!
- Thread starter shakti
- Start date
It is possible to adjust the Tophead of the Osiris, but not by single speaker.
So the listening distance is more critical and need to be chosen more carefully.
Well Tang, those Futures tweeters were highly directional ribbons w limited vertical dispersion, and sat well above ear level on a backward sloping baffle. Infuriating to only get proper high frequencies in the standing position.
Even though the Osiris doesn't have that disadvantage, that tweeter looks mighty high up, and even w the ability to tilt it downwards, it still looks too fussy maybe for coping w all combinations of seat height, ear level height, seating distance from spkrs.
If you have to be careful to intersect those lines for best treble, it's a major consideration.
I mean, having spent £10.5k on those ProAcs in 1999, I truly didn't want to ditch them.
Even though the Osiris doesn't have that disadvantage, that tweeter looks mighty high up, and even w the ability to tilt it downwards, it still looks too fussy maybe for coping w all combinations of seat height, ear level height, seating distance from spkrs.
If you have to be careful to intersect those lines for best treble, it's a major consideration.
I mean, having spent £10.5k on those ProAcs in 1999, I truly didn't want to ditch them.
Buying a speaker means, you know the specification of the speaker upfront.
I did a lot of analysis 3 years ago regarding the Gryphon Poseidon , and my room was nearly too small, but it would have worked out. I did the same analysis for the Maxx 3 , not problem at all, and now for the Osiris, which will work fine.
Seeing all the pictures in the web, showing huge speaker systems in very often too small rooms, cannot understand.
Speakers and room size must fit together, otherwise the performance will be constrained, independed of the budget invested.
Nice project shakti.
But the graph of audiomagazine is (as they stated already a bit) most likely " tampered " with
.
An honest graph can be brutal at first sight but at least you know where to change and what .
I also adjust my speakers with a flat or slightly tailored down response .
Elevated freq responses are defintively unlistenable over time .
But the graph of audiomagazine is (as they stated already a bit) most likely " tampered " with
.An honest graph can be brutal at first sight but at least you know where to change and what .
I also adjust my speakers with a flat or slightly tailored down response .
Elevated freq responses are defintively unlistenable over time .
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Juergen, the Futures were never going to work. A ribbon tweeter 4' off the floor angled backwards and pointing too high for anyone except Andre The Giant, was simply a design oversight. Had I decided to stick w them, I'd have bought the smaller 3.5' high Futures One w the same ribbon tweeter now 3' off the floor, and augmented them w outboard subs.
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You do have a nice size room Jürgen, i would love to have that width. What are the dimensions of your “highendküche” ?
The room is a former pub, the house is nearly 130 years old. No parallel walls at all.
The distance between the walls of the speaker placement is close to 800 cm, enough space for the Osiris.
Smallest distance between this walls behind the sofa is 670cm
The back side has two doors, the bigger door is opposite of the right speaker and opens up to another area of the house, maximum 20m to go for the bass wave. The door in opposite of the left speaker opens up into a smaller room. Both doors open do result in a better bass response.
Some more pictures, showing the working progress
And plenty of ceiling height too, very nice !The room is a former pub, the house is nearly 130 years old. No parallel walls at all.
The distance between the walls of the speaker placement is close to 800 cm, enough space for the Osiris.
Smallest distance between this walls behind the sofa is 670cm
The back side has two doors, the bigger door is opposite of the right speaker and opens up to another area of the house, maximum 20m to go for the bass wave. The door in opposite of the left speaker opens up into a smaller room. Both doors open do result in a better bass response.
Some more pictures, showing the working progress
View attachment 66712View attachment 66711View attachment 66710View attachment 66709View attachment 66708
now I've pushed enough for the time being ...
In summary it can be said that the proposed Avalon dimensions do not work 100% in my room, presumably because they are in my room outside the "Zone of Neutrality" determined according to Wilson Audio methodology.
Neil Patel obviously follows the method of speaker placement developed by Georg Cardas, which is purely geometric.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html
http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php
1. Distance from the back wall (behind the speakers)
According to Avalon, the Osiris stand at a distance of about 250cm from the rear wall, about 15cm further than the Wilson method for the right channel would allow, the tonal effect is corresponding, the sound loses image sharpness, image details are swallowed. If I move the Osiris to the 235cm border of the neutral zone, the room snaps into place. Ultimately, about 230 cm back wall distance for the right loudspeaker have been found to be suitable, the left is now with a back wall running at an angle with over 300 cm distance to the wall. (memo: the RD Acoustic diffuser is parallel to the speaker axis), the space behind the diffuser is used as a bass absorber)
I went through the distance from the back wall in several seating positions and heights. It is quite possible that my sofa will finally slide back about 20cm.
2. Distance between the speakers
I always struggle with this distance. With my previous Infinity Beta I learned that the speakers, regardless of the room size, should only be at a maximum distance from each other, because otherwise the "mid bass coupling effect" between the two speakers would not occur and the speakers in the lower mid-range / upper range Bass range would be too slim and play with too little energy.
Since then I have tried this with all speakers and have noticed that there are speakers that need exactly this effect, since they would otherwise play too slim, but other speakers have to be very far apart, otherwise they are too thick in the upper bass range and therefore play too imprecisely.
Applying the 4: 10: 4 methodology in my room,
Avalon specifies a distance of 370cm between the loudspeakers, which means a very large base width for my room.
In parallel speakers settings, I actually see about 300cm before...
So try both.
At 300cm the Osiris plays very powerful, very warm and with a lot of energy in the upper bass, obviously in the area of "mid bass coupling". So I realized many Avalon performances at trade fairs and privately hosts, which mostly offered a round and full Avalon sound with many details and deep space.
For my current listening conditioning, the Osiris at 300cm distance has too much of this sonic signature, since it overlays all recordings. My idea of a "neutral" speaker is different.
Correspondingly tried the 370cm, but the Osiris (unfortunately) again move outside the "Zone of Neutrality".
The detail mapping and mapping precision is correspondingly poor.
But the tonal balance becomes a much slimmer and more natural in the vocal range.
Accordingly, I now move the speakers back into the neutral zone and try a distance of 330cm.
Now I have the desired sharpness again, but the somewhat thick upper bass is also back.
So the Osiris pushed to the outer edges of the neutral zone, which corresponds to a distance of 356 cm (center of Osiris front to center of Osiris front).
This takes away the amplified upper bass from the speaker, but unfortunately the LS does not play in the middle with the precision that I heard at 330 cm.
But as it stands in the manual, in critical sidewall situations you should increase the angle of the speakers to 5 degrees,
which actually the last one precision added.
At this point the Osiris is now working properly, ie the upper bass rise is gone,
the bass reproduction is suitable and the size of the voices is correct.
Now the crossovers (as good as possible) pushed behind the LS.
... and the bass reproduction wasn't as good as before ...
The large boxes seem to form their own reflective surface, which together with my furniture creates one or the other effect.
Now I have the crossovers at a different angle than the main speakers, which still works optically, but obviously shifts the reflections into a much less critical area.
In this position I will listen to music for a while now
Then there is another action for 4 strong men, the Apex spikes need to be mounted under the crossovers and speakers, which corresponds to a complete dismantling of the speaker set up :-(.
Then the Osiris come back to the now defined position and due to the changed height, the position of the sofa and the inclination of the top modules are then addressed.
Avalon has included a very long and flat wrench for height adjustment of the spikes, so that this is possible in the first place.
In summary it can be said that the proposed Avalon dimensions do not work 100% in my room, presumably because they are in my room outside the "Zone of Neutrality" determined according to Wilson Audio methodology.
Neil Patel obviously follows the method of speaker placement developed by Georg Cardas, which is purely geometric.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html
http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php
1. Distance from the back wall (behind the speakers)
According to Avalon, the Osiris stand at a distance of about 250cm from the rear wall, about 15cm further than the Wilson method for the right channel would allow, the tonal effect is corresponding, the sound loses image sharpness, image details are swallowed. If I move the Osiris to the 235cm border of the neutral zone, the room snaps into place. Ultimately, about 230 cm back wall distance for the right loudspeaker have been found to be suitable, the left is now with a back wall running at an angle with over 300 cm distance to the wall. (memo: the RD Acoustic diffuser is parallel to the speaker axis), the space behind the diffuser is used as a bass absorber)
I went through the distance from the back wall in several seating positions and heights. It is quite possible that my sofa will finally slide back about 20cm.
2. Distance between the speakers
I always struggle with this distance. With my previous Infinity Beta I learned that the speakers, regardless of the room size, should only be at a maximum distance from each other, because otherwise the "mid bass coupling effect" between the two speakers would not occur and the speakers in the lower mid-range / upper range Bass range would be too slim and play with too little energy.
Since then I have tried this with all speakers and have noticed that there are speakers that need exactly this effect, since they would otherwise play too slim, but other speakers have to be very far apart, otherwise they are too thick in the upper bass range and therefore play too imprecisely.
Applying the 4: 10: 4 methodology in my room,
Avalon specifies a distance of 370cm between the loudspeakers, which means a very large base width for my room.
In parallel speakers settings, I actually see about 300cm before...
So try both.
At 300cm the Osiris plays very powerful, very warm and with a lot of energy in the upper bass, obviously in the area of "mid bass coupling". So I realized many Avalon performances at trade fairs and privately hosts, which mostly offered a round and full Avalon sound with many details and deep space.
For my current listening conditioning, the Osiris at 300cm distance has too much of this sonic signature, since it overlays all recordings. My idea of a "neutral" speaker is different.
Correspondingly tried the 370cm, but the Osiris (unfortunately) again move outside the "Zone of Neutrality".
The detail mapping and mapping precision is correspondingly poor.
But the tonal balance becomes a much slimmer and more natural in the vocal range.
Accordingly, I now move the speakers back into the neutral zone and try a distance of 330cm.
Now I have the desired sharpness again, but the somewhat thick upper bass is also back.
So the Osiris pushed to the outer edges of the neutral zone, which corresponds to a distance of 356 cm (center of Osiris front to center of Osiris front).
This takes away the amplified upper bass from the speaker, but unfortunately the LS does not play in the middle with the precision that I heard at 330 cm.
But as it stands in the manual, in critical sidewall situations you should increase the angle of the speakers to 5 degrees,
which actually the last one precision added.
At this point the Osiris is now working properly, ie the upper bass rise is gone,
the bass reproduction is suitable and the size of the voices is correct.
Now the crossovers (as good as possible) pushed behind the LS.
... and the bass reproduction wasn't as good as before ...
The large boxes seem to form their own reflective surface, which together with my furniture creates one or the other effect.
Now I have the crossovers at a different angle than the main speakers, which still works optically, but obviously shifts the reflections into a much less critical area.
In this position I will listen to music for a while now
Then there is another action for 4 strong men, the Apex spikes need to be mounted under the crossovers and speakers, which corresponds to a complete dismantling of the speaker set up :-(.
Then the Osiris come back to the now defined position and due to the changed height, the position of the sofa and the inclination of the top modules are then addressed.
Avalon has included a very long and flat wrench for height adjustment of the spikes, so that this is possible in the first place.
I am amazed that in such a large room as yours it's a struggle to find a happy medium. Not many rooms are bigger.
The Avalon Osiris was a technology reference and (maybe?) planned to become mainly a showroom speaker for the various importers and High End fairs.
We all know the large rooms on fairs for those reference speakers,
sometimes 100 people listening, sometimes the Audience is even staying around...
All technical parameters of the Osiris are for large rooms, so my room comes to the limits to host a system like the Osiris in a way, that the performance becomes reference as well.
now I've pushed enough for the time being ...
In summary it can be said that the proposed Avalon dimensions do not work 100% in my room, presumably because they are in my room outside the "Zone of Neutrality" determined according to Wilson Audio methodology.
Neil Patel obviously follows the method of speaker placement developed by Georg Cardas, which is purely geometric.
https://www.tnt-audio.com/casse/waspe.html
http://www.cardas.com/room_setup_main.php
1. Distance from the back wall (behind the speakers)
According to Avalon, the Osiris stand at a distance of about 250cm from the rear wall, about 15cm further than the Wilson method for the right channel would allow, the tonal effect is corresponding, the sound loses image sharpness, image details are swallowed. If I move the Osiris to the 235cm border of the neutral zone, the room snaps into place. Ultimately, about 230 cm back wall distance for the right loudspeaker have been found to be suitable, the left is now with a back wall running at an angle with over 300 cm distance to the wall. (memo: the RD Acoustic diffuser is parallel to the speaker axis), the space behind the diffuser is used as a bass absorber)
I went through the distance from the back wall in several seating positions and heights. It is quite possible that my sofa will finally slide back about 20cm.
2. Distance between the speakers
I always struggle with this distance. With my previous Infinity Beta I learned that the speakers, regardless of the room size, should only be at a maximum distance from each other, because otherwise the "mid bass coupling effect" between the two speakers would not occur and the speakers in the lower mid-range / upper range Bass range would be too slim and play with too little energy.
Since then I have tried this with all speakers and have noticed that there are speakers that need exactly this effect, since they would otherwise play too slim, but other speakers have to be very far apart, otherwise they are too thick in the upper bass range and therefore play too imprecisely.
Applying the 4: 10: 4 methodology in my room,
Avalon specifies a distance of 370cm between the loudspeakers, which means a very large base width for my room.
In parallel speakers settings, I actually see about 300cm before...
So try both.
At 300cm the Osiris plays very powerful, very warm and with a lot of energy in the upper bass, obviously in the area of "mid bass coupling". So I realized many Avalon performances at trade fairs and privately hosts, which mostly offered a round and full Avalon sound with many details and deep space.
For my current listening conditioning, the Osiris at 300cm distance has too much of this sonic signature, since it overlays all recordings. My idea of a "neutral" speaker is different.
Correspondingly tried the 370cm, but the Osiris (unfortunately) again move outside the "Zone of Neutrality".
The detail mapping and mapping precision is correspondingly poor.
But the tonal balance becomes a much slimmer and more natural in the vocal range.
Accordingly, I now move the speakers back into the neutral zone and try a distance of 330cm.
Now I have the desired sharpness again, but the somewhat thick upper bass is also back.
So the Osiris pushed to the outer edges of the neutral zone, which corresponds to a distance of 356 cm (center of Osiris front to center of Osiris front).
This takes away the amplified upper bass from the speaker, but unfortunately the LS does not play in the middle with the precision that I heard at 330 cm.
But as it stands in the manual, in critical sidewall situations you should increase the angle of the speakers to 5 degrees,
which actually the last one precision added.
At this point the Osiris is now working properly, ie the upper bass rise is gone,
the bass reproduction is suitable and the size of the voices is correct.
Now the crossovers (as good as possible) pushed behind the LS.
... and the bass reproduction wasn't as good as before ...
The large boxes seem to form their own reflective surface, which together with my furniture creates one or the other effect.
Now I have the crossovers at a different angle than the main speakers, which still works optically, but obviously shifts the reflections into a much less critical area.
In this position I will listen to music for a while now
Then there is another action for 4 strong men, the Apex spikes need to be mounted under the crossovers and speakers, which corresponds to a complete dismantling of the speaker set up :-(.
Then the Osiris come back to the now defined position and due to the changed height, the position of the sofa and the inclination of the top modules are then addressed.
Avalon has included a very long and flat wrench for height adjustment of the spikes, so that this is possible in the first place.
From experience I know not to trust a speaker setup on a dolly, your bass is all wrong. Drop them on furniture sliders and live with them for a week before spiking them. Looking at what you're dealing with in this design and your room acoustics I'm not sure you're going to be able to live with this speaker long term. The MIT wiring should have it given it away
!david
Don’t give up Jürgen, you are just getting started, angling, cabling and acoustic treatment can make big differences
Armchair quarterbackDon’t give up Jürgen, you are just getting started, angling, cabling and acoustic treatment can make big differences
!david
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Lagonda likes nothing more than getting his head down in a scrum w no headgear.
God knows how audiophiles proved their alpha status on the Savannah when social media was a tiny bit into the future.
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