Avantgarde Horn Speakers

[AudioHR]

I was the importer for AirTight for a very short period when I distributed Avantgarde Horns into the UK. I was hoping to find a good amplifier that would be silent with the high efficiency horns to save me from having to build my own tube amp designs. Unfortunately, I was not able to find one SET amplifier that was quiet enough with not only Avantgarde horns, but any high efficiency speaker (>100dB efficiency), and I had access to pretty much all makes of SET amplifiers at the time. Nothing much has changed since, as no one seems to design amplifiers specifically for driving high efficiency loudspeakers, typically horns, except my own Tron designs. It also goes further from a design prospective. You have to take into account the whole amplification chain to obtain the best possible results.

I can't believe that there aren't some SET amps that would pair well with high efficiency speakers. My Shindo Cortese 300b, is dead quiet with the Monbrison preamp! Speakers >100db. I have not heard Shindo with Avantgarde.

Full disclosure not a dealer or distributor just a fan. As with any hi end product some will absolutely love what Shindo offers, others not so much. Having a listen with your speaker of choice is advisable with any amp purchase.

 

[No Regrets]

Hello Stephan,

I understand your dilemma -- which tube type and then which amplifer. This creates a large sea of choices. Avantgarde speakers are highly sensitive at 107-109 dB. I believe you have the XD speakers where the bass is powered. This takes a lot of load off of the tubes as they are only running the upper bass (>100Hz), midrange and treble. WIth all of that you do not need much power to drive them. A 10 Watt amplifier will drive them without trouble. So you can use any SET amplifier.

The air tight ATM-1 you mentioned uses a pair of EL34's for each channel and outputs 35 watts so that is no problem. But this amp will sound very different than a 300B amp.

At the 2025 Axpona we used the phasemation 300B SET amps. They have one that is a single 300B with about 10W of output (the MA-1500 which is in the $30k range). We played all kinds of music from Beethoven to Rolling Stones to Rachmaninoff to Dianna Krall to Daft Punk. It all worked.

We had on display the Synthesis FCO 300B integrated which can also be used as a straight power amplifier. It produces 8W. It is a full dual mono design and weighs 45 KG.

If you are looking for a "full sounding" amplifier then you might strongly consider a 300B SET. There are many to choose from and I offer a couple that I have experience with.

In full disclosure -- I represent Avantgarde, Phasemation and Synthesis.

I was at the AXPONA Show this past weekend and spent a lot of time in the Avantgarde room. I thought the Mezzo's sound quite good with the Phasemation PSET 300B mono amps!

I enjoyed visiting with Angie and loved that she was spinning vinyl. Even on a relatively modest analog set up, it sounded fantastic!

You mentioned that you are represent Avantgarde and Phasemation. Where are you located?

Best wishes,
Don

 

[Hear Here]

I can't believe that there aren't some SET amps that would pair well with high efficiency speakers. My Shindo Cortese 300b, is dead quiet with the Monbrison preamp! Speakers >100db. I have not heard Shindo with Avantgarde.

Full disclosure not a dealer or distributor just a fan. As with any hi end product some will absolutely love what Shindo offers, others not so much. Having a listen with your speaker of choice is advisable with any amp purchase.

The nicest sounding SET I used with my Avantgardes was the Art Audio PX-25. Utterly sublime with small-scale music but a little short of breath is asked to deliver Mahler at crazy volume! Hampered a bit by its 6 watt output but a wonderful amp for high sensitivity horn speakers. I used beefier 845 mono SETs for the Mahler!

 

[sbnx]

I was at the AXPONA Show this past weekend and spent a lot of time in the Avantgarde room. I thought the Mezzo's sound quite good with the Phasemation PSET 300B mono amps!

I enjoyed visiting with Angie and loved that she was spinning vinyl. Even on a relatively modest analog set up, it sounded fantastic!

You mentioned that you are represent Avantgarde and Phasemation. Where are you located?

Best wishes,
Don

Hello Don,

I am located outside of Dallas Texas. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions on Avantgarde or Phasemation.

~Todd

 

[morricab]

The nicest sounding SET I used with my Avantgardes was the Art Audio PX-25. Utterly sublime with small-scale music but a little short of breath is asked to deliver Mahler at crazy volume! Hampered a bit by its 6 watt output but a wonderful amp for high sensitivity horn speakers. I used beefier 845 mono SETs for the Mahler!

The speakers are like 107 dB with active bass…that would have to be damn loud to make 6 watts “run out of breath”

 

[Hear Here]

The speakers are like 107 dB with active bass…that would have to be damn loud to make 6 watts “run out of breath”

In fact my AGs at the time were 102 dB and the PX-25 was only struggling with high volume playing full-scale orchestral or other robust music.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Horns and tubes are a tricky combination indeed. Back in the day, I can very well remember when one of our sub-dealers took over AG Horns for the Sth East Asian region. He placed a few orders during the period 2001 - 2004, comprising of mainly the Duo's, and Trio's and one pair of Trio Classico. They weren't getting much traction mainly due to amplifier matching. Match with the right gear and all is well, match with the wrong gear and all hell breaks loose.

Some of the disasters were: Quad II Forty's mono's, Cary Cad II-300B Anniversary Edition mono's, and these huge Melos Gold 400's. Those were so damn noisy that you could virtually hear the hum and hiss even before you enter his driveway! The ones that were successful in terms of very low noise, and near quietness: Audio Note, Golden Tube Audio, Sonic Frontiers, Jadis, and CJ. Out of those ones listed, it were the Jadis and CJ's that really worked extremely well, very low noise and perfect drive and balance. At the time it was the CAV50 and the Premier 11A, in push-pull config and no extra bells or whistles, just good quality performance.

Fast fwd that to around 2011, and I had the opportunity to experience AG once again, hence my initial post starting this thread, I nearly closed on the AG Duo XD. Matched with the CJ Cav45S2, it was superb! Very very quiet, no damn hiss, hum... nothing, thanks to a certain type of low gain tube that CJ uses in the Input stage and driver/phase inverter stages on the CAV45 series. Now CJ has released a newer version of the CAV, called the CAV60. Haven't heard this one as yet but I'm thinking it's mighty fine with high efficiency speakers, using a pair of EL34's in push-pull config per channel, pumping out 60w of CJ finesse, nothing more required.

There were others, such as Ayon and Kondo Audio Note that also worked extremely well but these are in a totally different price range. Out of the SS designs with Horns, driving AG's, nothing really impressed other than one type of SS amp in particular that is actually made by AG themselves! The AG stereo power amplifier, it's actually an integrated amp and it matches perfectly with AG horns. It's also very well designed and looks stunning! German engineering at its finest. I wouldn't really bother with anything else, just take a look at the AG amplifier's specs and you'll notice that the AG team have solely designed this amplifier based on their high-end Horn systems.

In Nov 2017, I had the opportunity to experience this AG amp driving the Duo XD's, it was tops! However, when I told the chap that I really liked that AG amp but also really really liked my CJ monoblocks at the time... he advised just keep the CJ's, no need to change at all, the Duo XD's will be driven optimally. That's when the deposit was paid but the end sale fell through, I auditioned for the very first time ML's CLX's and that was it!

Matching AG's with tube gear is tricky, there's no hard and fast rule, nothing you can rush. Just take your time in finding the right tooob. OTOH, if you can live with SS, they have a perfectly matching amplifier for their horns. It is a real top performer.
Cheers, RJ

 

[Hear Here]

OTOH, if you can live with SS, they have a perfectly matching amplifier for their horns. It is a real top performer.

Not possible now as Avantgarde ditched their stand-alone amps some while back. They only now use amps integrated in their active G3 Series with iTron amplification, or in the subs of their other speaker systems. I understand that this iTron system is first class, so I'm considering a move from Duo XD to the new iTron Duo GT

Many years ago I took my Avantgarde speakers to a UK Audio Show to use with Art Audio amps in their room - with tube amps both SET and PP. Avantgarde had their own room along the hall, but everyone who visited our room remarked that the sound was far better than that in the AG room, where their own ss amps were being used. I'm not sure these old stand-along AG amps were actually as good as you are suggesting they were.

 

[No Regrets]

Hello Don,

I am located outside of Dallas Texas. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions on Avantgarde or Phasemation.

~Todd

Thank you, Todd for your reply!

I live in Wisconsin. I'm not sure if I have any dealers within driving distance of me. I just googled Avantgarde for sale in Chicago and nothing came up.

The Avant Garde speakers are new to me, so I'm sure I will have many questions over time. I thought they sounded great at AXPONA this year. I loved their dynamics, their presence and was actually surprised by their tonal density and warmth. I will admit that I entered the room with preconceived notions that they would sound bright, hard, and tonally lean. That absolutely was not the case.

These speakers left an impression on me that makes me want to figure out how to get a larger listening room so that I could take full advantage of what these speakers can do!

Best wishes,
Don

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Not possible now as Avantgarde ditched their stand-alone amps some while back. They only now use amps integrated in their active G3 Series with iTron amplification, or in the subs of their other speaker systems. I understand that this iTron system is first class, so I'm considering a move from Duo XD to the new iTron Duo GT

Many years ago I took my Avantgarde speakers to a UK Audio Show to use with Art Audio amps in their room - with tube amps both SET and PP. Avantgarde had their own room along the hall, but everyone who visited our room remarked that the sound was far better than that in the AG room, where their own ss amps were being used. I'm not sure these old stand-along AG amps were actually as good as you are suggesting they were.

Yes, they were really good and a perfect match. Of course room settings will vary drastically, (which you're well aware of... ) and especially at hifi shows, they're the worst to judge overall presentation. Not ideal if you're considering a very critical analysis and to make purchase decisions. In any case, later during that time, I also visited the importer, privately set-up for demos was tops! Couldn't fault it one bit.

Didn't know that they ceased production on their integrated amps but our chaps here still have a few floating around. Maybe stock that didn't sell, don't know.

Nonetheless, getting the right amp to match with horns is very tricky, it can either make or break the overall sound. Even the source gear and the rest of it, hisses, hums it's everywhere. On the Duo's I heard weird differences between the jumper cables. High efficiency speakers will do just that. Once you find the right combination, just stick with it, stop mucking around and enjoy the music, was his advice.

There's a chap here who uses McIntosh with his horns, says it's the best in the world! Good for him. Didn't hear any hissing or hums on his triple stacked Klipsch.
Cheers matey, hope it all goes well.
RJ

 

[Hear Here]

Thank you, Todd for your reply!

I live in Wisconsin. I'm not sure if I have any dealers within driving distance of me. I just googled Avantgarde for sale in Chicago and nothing came up.

The Avant Garde speakers are new to me, so I'm sure I will have many questions over time. I thought they sounded great at AXPONA this year. I loved their dynamics, their presence and was actually surprised by their tonal density and warmth. I will admit that I entered the room with preconceived notions that they would sound bright, hard, and tonally lean. That absolutely was not the case.

These speakers left an impression on me that makes me want to figure out how to get a larger listening room so that I could take full advantage of what these speakers can do!

Best wishes,
Don

You describe very well the preconceived opinions of many regarding horns and also their change of opinion once Avantgarde speakers are introduced to them.

I had never seriously considered horns before 2002. Avantgardes, with their weird appearance were thing I walked past at shows, but having switched before that from KEF Reference 107s (nice speakers) to ATC Active 50s (not good in my opinion in domestic systems), I read about the AG Uno that Stereophile had recently chosen as their Speaker of the Year. Robert Deutsch's excellent review described EXACTLY the sort of sound I wanted that was so lacking in the ATC. A quick audition in a dingy London basement showroom and I placed an order. 23 years later, and after 2 model-upgrades, I'm still a fan of AG speakers.

 

[morricab]

Not possible now as Avantgarde ditched their stand-alone amps some while back. They only now use amps integrated in their active G3 Series with iTron amplification, or in the subs of their other speaker systems. I understand that this iTron system is first class, so I'm considering a move from Duo XD to the new iTron Duo GT

Many years ago I took my Avantgarde speakers to a UK Audio Show to use with Art Audio amps in their room - with tube amps both SET and PP. Avantgarde had their own room along the hall, but everyone who visited our room remarked that the sound was far better than that in the AG room, where their own ss amps were being used. I'm not sure these old stand-along AG amps were actually as good as you are suggesting they were.

I have never liked the sound of AG speakers using AG’s own amps. Not the old slim one and not the newer, now discontinued ones. I also don’t like the sound with the Itron system. I recently heard the Uno G3 with 300b amps at a show. Other than a bit soft in the highs the sound was wonderful…itron does not give that satisfaction.

 

[No Regrets]

You describe very well the preconceived opinions of many regarding horns and also their change of opinion once Avantgarde speakers are introduced to them.

I have to admit, my pre-conceived notions came from when I had Walnut Klipsch K-horns a few decades ago. I loved how dynamic they were, but voices were colored, and their bass output seemed weak (no matter how close or far away from the corners they were placed) compared to the treble and midrange output levels. They sounded lean to me, not much tonal density from what I remember. I was using a 15 watt EL84 amp with them.



I was amazed at how much I enjoyed the Avant Garde Mezzo G3 speakers. I would like to hear the DUO GT's and others in the line up as well.

Best wishes,
Don