Moving away from box speakers: Diesis Audio vs Avantgarde Acoustic?

[Al M.]

I wonder if he gave up listening to music as it never sounded good with his poor (in his room) choice of speaker, lack of setting-up know-how and made worse by his bonkers "tweaks"?

Actually, it sounded good (Peter's description above is not accurate for the more recent incarnations). Time to wrap up the nonsense and innuendos about a member who is not here anymore, don't you all think?

 

[Audiohertz2]

Yes, it's really huge, I have to admit that I really envy you that with a distance of only one meter, you can sometimes use the midbass unit as a coffee table!

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Not to misconstrue, as I’m not advocating 1M listening distance only , which is kind of anechoic , what i said was a properly designed speaker is measured at 1m and if its good in the time domain will be coherent even at 1M as measured or at 3M.

At further distances you bring into play wave propagation with room gain. The loudspeaker will take on the room gains or negatives from reflections as you go further back.

Academic this would not always apply to such a horn design sitting in the mouth

 

[Audiohertz2]

That is too dogmatic. It will depend on room acoustics, distance from speakers, distance between speakers etc.

I have my speakers slightly toed in. In my room this also helps minimizing distortion from sidewall reflections.

Again, it's all dependent on the situation.

Not dogmatic , academic really for all the reasons expressed , the overall effects will be the same regardless ..

 

[Audiohertz2]

It all depends on the balance of a speaker / how its designed
None is exactly the same .
Not even different models of the same company.
If a speaker has a flat Fr measured on axxis you might wanna place the speaker Straight ahead without toe in .
High freq. output rolls off considerably when measured at an angle .
If speakers have high freq roll of already for example 3 - 4 db you might wanna toe them in
Other wise they can sound slightly dull.
There is no right or wrong just what pleases the listener

It’s not about right or wrong , its about cause and effect ..

 

[PeterA]

It’s not about right or wrong , its about cause and effect ..

I agree, but I also think the recommendation to toe the speakers in for crossing slightly behind the listeners head makes it easier and quicker for generally decent sound. This helps the installer spend less time with the set up. it also helps the owner to get decent sound fairly quickly.

I found that it is much more difficult and time consuming to find a good location for the speakers if they are oriented straight ahead. However, with effort, the result is often more rewarding, and in my case far more natural sounding.

It depends on preferences, effort, and willingness to experiment. It also helps to have a target in mind to guide you and against which results can be judged.

 

[Al M.]

Not dogmatic , academic really for all the reasons expressed , the overall effects will be the same regardless ..

What are "all the reasons expressed"? I can't find any for no toe-in sounding more "natural" looking back at the posts.

 

[andromedaaudio]

It’s not about right or wrong , its about cause and effect ..

You appear to know everything .
So what systen do you listen too ?

 

[heihei]

Left field, but these might be interesting. I love Audionec speakers, and will be very interested to hear these new open-baffle designs.....
https://www.audionec.com/obi-line-concept/

 

[andromedaaudio]

Left field, but these might be interesting. I love Audionec speakers, and will be very interested to hear these new open-baffle designs.....
https://www.audionec.com/obi-line-concept/

I heard them at the show in Brussels.
Not bad for a open baffle design.

 

[Lagonda]

You appear to know everything .
So what systen do you listen too ?

He is one of those people not listing his system, we all know why !

 

[heihei]

I heard them at the show in Brussels.
Not bad for a open baffle design.

Any idea on pricing?

 

[andromedaaudio]

Any idea on pricing?

No .

 

[abeidrov]

My Sashas were originally set up by the local Wilson distributor using the standard Wilson set-up procedure. They were very thorough, and it took them a long time to do (almost 2 days). At the time I had 20w Border Patrol SET amp and Coincident Statement Line Stage. Then, I gradually changed to Mephisto and CH L1, replaced Kuzma with Techdas, ZYX with Opus, and finally Aesthetix Io Eclipse with CH P1. Then I decided to upgrade the spikes to Acoustic Diode, and the distributer came again to install them, and they re-did the setup procedure. The placement as a result of the last setup was not much different to where the speakers had been before. But now, on some records I feel, that I would like to have more colours, more vividness. Sometimes, the music flow does not excite me, and that is the main reason I want to try something different. This and also the upgrade bug
Maybe it’s the CH P1 that gives somewhat a duller presentation compared to Aesthetix Io?

 

[KeithR]

my guess is the change to CH/Gryphon. you went to a really "hifi" type sound. while Wilsons are not SET matches, a good tube amp may be a nice solution. even a simple ARC Ref 75SE. the Mephisto is in the fast, articulate camp unlike some of their other amps.

 

[morricab]

My Sashas were originally set up by the local Wilson distributor using the standard Wilson set-up procedure. They were very thorough, and it took them a long time to do (almost 2 days). At the time I had 20w Border Patrol SET amp and Coincident Statement Line Stage. Then, I gradually changed to Mephisto and CH L1, replaced Kuzma with Techdas, ZYX with Opus, and finally Aesthetix Io Eclipse with CH P1. Then I decided to upgrade the spikes to Acoustic Diode, and the distributer came again to install them, and they re-did the setup procedure. The placement as a result of the last setup was not much different to where the speakers had been before. But now, on some records I feel, that I would like to have more colours, more vividness. Sometimes, the music flow does not excite me, and that is the main reason I want to try something different. This and also the upgrade bug
Maybe it’s the CH P1 that gives somewhat a duller presentation compared to Aesthetix Io?

Well, if you switch to a high sensitivity speaker you will need that Border Patrol amp back! Was it a SET or was it the PP model?

 

[abeidrov]

my guess is the change to CH/Gryphon. you went to a really "hifi" type sound. while Wilsons are not SET matches, a good tube amp may be a nice solution. even a simple ARC Ref 75SE. the Mephisto is in the fast, articulate camp unlike some of their other amps.

Well, Mephisto has some ‘meat on the bones’ compared to other SS amps. I think it’s a good match for WA. I do not think that trying a tube amplifier would completely solve my issue, but it’s a good suggestion, I may try it.

 

[abeidrov]

Please, have a listen to this video from 4:30. The difference between two presentation is quite apparent. This is what excites me about the horn speakers.

 

[abeidrov]

Well, if you switch to a high sensitivity speaker you will need that Border Patrol amp back! Was it a SET or was it the PP model?

It was a 20 watt SET model with 300b in parallel with Takatsuki tubes.

 

[Lagonda]

My Sashas were originally set up by the local Wilson distributor using the standard Wilson set-up procedure. They were very thorough, and it took them a long time to do (almost 2 days). At the time I had 20w Border Patrol SET amp and Coincident Statement Line Stage. Then, I gradually changed to Mephisto and CH L1, replaced Kuzma with Techdas, ZYX with Opus, and finally Aesthetix Io Eclipse with CH P1. Then I decided to upgrade the spikes to Acoustic Diode, and the distributer came again to install them, and they re-did the setup procedure. The placement as a result of the last setup was not much different to where the speakers had been before. But now, on some records I feel, that I would like to have more colours, more vividness. Sometimes, the music flow does not excite me, and that is the main reason I want to try something different. This and also the upgrade bug
Maybe it’s the CH P1 that gives somewhat a duller presentation compared to Aesthetix Io?

But at least the CH does not break down constantly I spend more time listening to my SS backup phono than my Io Eclipse, it is always broken.

 

[morricab]

Please, have a listen to this video from 4:30. The difference between two presentation is quite apparent. This is what excites me about the horn speakers.

Yes, the B&W sound just kind of sits there while the Avantgarde sound "pops" and has presence.