It was better than Jadis JA100, riviera 50w hybrid, silvercore 833c 20 watts, and a 20w German 300b I compared with in the same room on Devore O96. I separately also heard Kondo overture and airtight 300b in other rooms on the same speaker but preferred the NAF2a3 the most.
Avantgarde Horn Speakers
- Thread starter Big Dog RJ
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It was better than Jadis JA100, riviera 50w hybrid, silvercore 833c 20 watts, and a 20w German 300b I compared with in the same room on Devore O96. I separately also heard Kondo overture and airtight 300b in other rooms on the same speaker but preferred the NAF2a3 the most.
The Devore 0/96 is a very different speaker to the Avantgarde Trio and will therefore respond very differently to different amplifiers. The DeVore 0/96 preferring a good push pull design with some feedback, as well as some power, to be able to control that large 10" cone on the 0/96. The Avantgarde range, as do most high efficiency horns, have always responded very well to the use with Single-ended triode amplification. There is a naturalness to the sound, which once heard, is extremely hard to beat. I am sure the push pull 2a3 NAF amplifier will work well with the DeVore 0/96.
Note: I was also the DeVore UK distributor for about 6 years and had quite a lot of experience, including demonstrating these at UK shows driving the two Orangutan models (0/93 & 0/96), both of which sound very good.
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Thanks for your input Graham. So you would prefer a SET with my Trios instead of this 2a3 PP concept from New Audio Frontiers?
Cheers
Stephan
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A good PP Class A triode amp like the NAF 2A3 will sound very good...just not as good, IMO, as a NAF 211 SET, for example.
Hi Stephan, it much depends on the type of music you are mostly listening too. If you listen a lot to rock, heavy metal etc then a push-pull amp with a little feedback is probably the better choice. However, if you listen to mostly acoustic music, as in classical, folk, jazz, blues, male and female voice and choral music etc, then the sound and purity of a good SET amplifier will be extremely hard to beat. Horns and other high efficiency loudspeakers are very sensitive to the amplification powering them, so the better the amplifier, the better the sound. Having said that, very few SET amps have been designed to drive horns like those from Cessaro and Avantgarde, and these speakers will very easily show up the faults, like noise (hiss and hum) or too much gain in the power amplifier and the amplification chain.
The 2A3 is a nice tube, but it can sound a little lean or light weight in sound balance compared to other good triodes. Also because they are small and only output a little amount of power, you have to use more of them, or put several of them in parallel single-ended or push-pull and run them at their maximum ratings to get them to deliver the power needed to drive the speakers. Apart from the obvious tube life issue running them hard, running more than one triode requires careful tube matching. Filling a room with sound with this sort of amp might not be such a problem in a small room, but in a large room it could be an issue.
Thanks for your inputs. As i am listening often to Jazz, there is also a passion to listen to rock and metal. Classical music also is a choice to listen to, symphonic works above choral music.
What i dont want is a lean sounding amp. Should have body and weight. So the 2a3 might not be the best choice due to the description above. Even if it is PP. Dont know if the NAF 2a3 is a zero feedback construction or uses some feedback.
What i dont want is a lean sounding amp. Should have body and weight. So the 2a3 might not be the best choice due to the description above. Even if it is PP. Dont know if the NAF 2a3 is a zero feedback construction or uses some feedback.
If the amp is push-pull it will very likely have some feedback applied.
Hi Folks,
still struggling with teh tube amp question. Besides the NAF 2a3 an Air Tight ATM-1s seems to be interesting. Any experiences with this amp and Avantgarde?
Cheers
Stephan
still struggling with teh tube amp question. Besides the NAF 2a3 an Air Tight ATM-1s seems to be interesting. Any experiences with this amp and Avantgarde?
Cheers
Stephan
Sorry if this was already run up the flagpole, but what about Viva Aurora Monos?
Tried airtight 300b integrated on the trios. It is a nice amp
Hello Stephan,
I understand your dilemma -- which tube type and then which amplifer. This creates a large sea of choices. Avantgarde speakers are highly sensitive at 107-109 dB. I believe you have the XD speakers where the bass is powered. This takes a lot of load off of the tubes as they are only running the upper bass (>100Hz), midrange and treble. WIth all of that you do not need much power to drive them. A 10 Watt amplifier will drive them without trouble. So you can use any SET amplifier.
The air tight ATM-1 you mentioned uses a pair of EL34's for each channel and outputs 35 watts so that is no problem. But this amp will sound very different than a 300B amp.
At the 2025 Axpona we used the phasemation 300B SET amps. They have one that is a single 300B with about 10W of output (the MA-1500 which is in the $30k range). We played all kinds of music from Beethoven to Rolling Stones to Rachmaninoff to Dianna Krall to Daft Punk. It all worked.
We had on display the Synthesis FCO 300B integrated which can also be used as a straight power amplifier. It produces 8W. It is a full dual mono design and weighs 45 KG.
If you are looking for a "full sounding" amplifier then you might strongly consider a 300B SET. There are many to choose from and I offer a couple that I have experience with.
In full disclosure -- I represent Avantgarde, Phasemation and Synthesis.
I was the importer for AirTight for a very short period when I distributed Avantgarde Horns into the UK. I was hoping to find a good amplifier that would be silent with the high efficiency horns to save me from having to build my own tube amp designs. Unfortunately, I was not able to find one SET amplifier that was quiet enough with not only Avantgarde horns, but any high efficiency speaker (>100dB efficiency), and I had access to pretty much all makes of SET amplifiers at the time. Nothing much has changed since, as no one seems to design amplifiers specifically for driving high efficiency loudspeakers, typically horns, except my own Tron designs. It also goes further from a design prospective. You have to take into account the whole amplification chain to obtain the best possible results.
The amplifiers you mention may drive the Avantgarde horns but that is not the key issue here. It's the noise and gain element which is the elephant in the room. I published articles about this 30 years ago...
I agree with you. Tubes are inherently noisy. Not really my cup of tea but I can hear what people like about them. The OP is trying to figure out which tube (EL34, 300B, 211 etc) to use. Maybe you can point him toward your paper.
I am sure you are aware, but I feel I should mention the idea of choosing a tube of your likeing. If you pick a 300B amplifier (or EL34 or 211 or ...) there are many manufacturers of that tube type and each with their own secret sauce for how it is made which will change its inherent sound. For example, a Western Electric 300B tube sounds very different than a PSVane, or an EAT or a Takatsuki. You can tailor the sound along a scale from relatively "lean" to very full and round.
Hi Graham,
yes, the noise floor might be an issue with SETs. Therefore the push pull designs. Actually i am using a Valvet Soulshine Tube pre with the Valvet E3 single ended transistor amp. This is quiet. I want to test a tube amp instead the e3, using the Soulshine as pre. Don´t know if the tube amp is such a difference to the Single Ended class A amp.
yes, the noise floor might be an issue with SETs. Therefore the push pull designs. Actually i am using a Valvet Soulshine Tube pre with the Valvet E3 single ended transistor amp. This is quiet. I want to test a tube amp instead the e3, using the Soulshine as pre. Don´t know if the tube amp is such a difference to the Single Ended class A amp.
It is very different, just as there has always been a difference between tubes and solid-state. I am not saying which is better, but what I have found to work best if the ultimate sound quality is what you are after. This is my preference. Given a good horn speaker and a very well designed and implemented SET amplifier there is no better way I know of to recreate the sound of real/live music.
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