Avantgarde Trio Luxury VS Tannoy Kingdom Royal

[bonzo75]

Thanks for the solid advices gents! Much appreciated. After seeing a few pictures of Trio Luxury with basshorns installed in rooms with similar width as mine I decided to completely backing off from Trio. It’s just will look ugly, I have to put my equipments on top of the basshorns or put the rack in front of the basshorn completely ruining the aesthetic. I could run the system on the side wall but then I will have to run very long speaker cable which is the worst that can happen IMO. My wife also made it clear that she wants Karaoke and Movie too, as much as I want a set of Trio Luxury I just don’t think it’s wise given the circumstances. Duo Mezzo XD seems like a wiser choice.

In that case tannoy (try Westminster) will be a far superior choice imo

 

[KeithR]

In that case tannoy (try Westminster) will be a far superior choice imo

have you seen a pair of Westies in the flesh? they are as big as Trios.

 

[bonzo75]

have you seen a pair of Westies in the flesh? they are as big as Trios.

Yes but they look much nicer and fit like furniture, go back to the wall, no bass horns

 

[howiebrou]

Yes but they look much nicer and fit like furniture, go back to the wall, no bass horns

Would love a pair of Westminsters.

 

[Hear Here]

Check out these pictures:Avantgarde Customer Room Photos. Very few of these photos show speakers placed away from the walls.

But it seems like their customers don't obsess, but just enjoy.

Well another thing that may surprise Avantgarde owners who want to get the best from their speakers - take a look at the photos of newer systems where the enclosure is supported by a cast frame and fancy adjustable spikes - look at the spikes - many still have their styrofoam floor protectors in place! At first I thought these may be some clever vibration absorbing footer, but when my own Duo XDs arrived I realised that many owners have left these protectors in place. These speakers sound good even poorly set up, but big dividends are earned by more careful adjustment - and ditching the polystyrene! Whether spikes are better than footers such as Gaias or platforms such as Svelte is endlessly debatable, but polystyrene I don't think so. Peter

 

[marslo]

Well another thing that may surprise Avantgarde owners who want to get the best from their speakers - take a look at the photos of newer systems where the enclosure is supported by a cast frame and fancy adjustable spikes - look at the spikes - many still have their styrofoam floor protectors in place! At first I thought these may be some clever vibration absorbing footer, but when my own Duo XDs arrived I realised that many owners have left these protectors in place. These speakers sound good even poorly set up, but big dividends are earned by more careful adjustment - and ditching the polystyrene! Whether spikes are better than footers such as Gaias or platforms such as Svelte is endlessly debatable, but polystyrene I don't think so. Peter

You are right, but until the speakers are not finally placed the foam protection helps a lot to move them around.
After you are sure they are in the spot the foam should be removed. The gain in precision and soundstage is obvious.

 

[Hear Here]

You are right, but until the speakers are not finally placed the foam protection helps a lot to move them around.
After you are sure they are in the spot the foam should be removed. The gain in precision and soundstage is obvious.

You know that and I know that, but I wonder about those AG owners who take photos and send them to AG for adding to their gallery. You'd think they would take the photos only once they have them ideally placed and polystyrene socks removed. I'll bet most of those owners still have them wearing protective socks!

I've delayed taking photos of my new Duos until I'm happy with the mods I've made. Holger Fromme liked what I did with my old Duos and invited me to add photos of them. Here's a preview of what I've done to streamline and slim down my new Duos. Armin has helped with the new Duo changes. It's refreshing to find a manufacturer that doesn't say "making any mods to your speakers will invalidate the warranty"

 

[KeithR]

Yes but they look much nicer and fit like furniture, go back to the wall, no

the WAF of Westies is approximately zero.

 

[christoph]

Would love a pair of Westminsters.

To hang your winter coats in them?

 

[bonzo75]

the WAF of Westies is approximately zero.

I love tannoy looks

 

[Uwiik]

After a couple of weeks of listening, WAF has improved on the loaner Canterbury SE. She came to realize how the dual concentric design filled the room evenly and even sitting sideway on a couch she can still listen the music in stereo effect and I have to admit I never listen to something filling out a room in a three dimensional manner this nicely.
My friend from out of town came over last week, he is an audiophile too and have an experience with horns. He suggested me to just stick with Tannoys because he said if me and wife liked the way Tannoy DC filled the room we will not like the sound from horns because horns is very very directional and any slight deviation from standard set listening position will ruin the stereo effect greatly, no enjoyment listening to horns by sitting sideway unlike Tannoys Dual Concentric.

Disclosure; I have never spent any amount of time with Tannoys Dual Concentric or Avantgarde Horns.

 

[thedudeabides]

Both will be a blind purchase if I go ahead. Please advise between the two.

Neither. Don't buy without audition in your home.

 

[Uwiik]

I can audition Tannoy Westminster SE if I want but there is no way I can audition Avantgarde Duo. By the way, I am not considering Kingdom Royal anymore due to the fact that it’s not Dual Concentric.

As far as I know after spending some time with the Canterbury SE, Dual Concentric design is by nature able to fill up the room in 3D manner (able to sit sideway while still having good sound effects). Considering that my mancave is designed with multi orientation seating position, I think I am now leaning towards Dual Concentric design so everyone inside the room can enjoy good music regardless of their seating position.

During my first couple of days, I thought the Canterbury feels veiled/mudded particularly on the high and bass and I had a feeling that the sound signature will be too much alike to my Ktema upstairs (not saying that Ktema is veiled, far far away from that) but after spending some more time and cable tweaks I realized I couldn’t be more wrong. With the Canterbury SE driven by my Kondo Ongaku and Kondo G70 I actually starting to understand when people said “music”. Yes the treble is not as crisp as my Ktema, yes the bass performance is not even close to my Ktema, but the combination of what’s coming out of the Tannoy feels like “just music” to my ears. With the Tannoys I just stopped criticizing my latest system and just listen the sweet sugar music I am longing for, thanks to the Kondo amp-pre and Kondo all silver cables that sweet sugary sound coming out from the Tannoy is definitely NOT tubey at all, it is still very fast and precise despite the sweetness, a rare feat in any tube amplification IMO. The all silver all Kondo cables also IMO managed to rid the veiled feeling from the Tannoy.

If anybody can confirm that horns speaker is very directional, demanding one and only seating position for good sound and everyone else on sideway seating position will get bad sound I think I will stop considering Avantgarde and decide on the Tannoy, Westminster SE or GR perhaps.

 

[howiebrou]

I can audition Tannoy Westminster SE if I want but there is no way I can audition Avantgarde Duo. By the way, I am not considering Kingdom Royal anymore due to the fact that it’s not Dual Concentric.

As far as I know after spending some time with the Canterbury SE, Dual Concentric design is by nature able to fill up the room in 3D manner (able to sit sideway while still having good sound effects). Considering that my mancave is designed with multi orientation seating position, I think I am now leaning towards Dual Concentric design so everyone inside the room can enjoy good music regardless of their seating position.

During my first couple of days, I thought the Canterbury feels veiled/mudded particularly on the high and bass and I had a feeling that the sound signature will be too much alike to my Ktema upstairs (not saying that Ktema is veiled, far far away from that) but after spending some more time and cable tweaks I realized I couldn’t be more wrong. With the Canterbury SE driven by my Kondo Ongaku and Kondo G70 I actually starting to understand when people said “music”. Yes the treble is not as crisp as my Ktema, yes the bass performance is not even close to my Ktema, but the combination of what’s coming out of the Tannoy feels like “just music” to my ears. With the Tannoys I just stopped criticizing my latest system and just listen the sweet sugar music I am longing for, thanks to the Kondo amp-pre and Kondo all silver cables that sweet sugary sound coming out from the Tannoy is definitely NOT tubey at all, it is still very fast and precise despite the sweetness, a rare feat in any tube amplification IMO. The all silver all Kondo cables also IMO managed to rid the veiled feeling from the Tannoy.

If anybody can confirm that horns speaker is very directional, demanding one and only seating position for good sound and everyone else on sideway seating position will get bad sound I think I will stop considering Avantgarde and decide on the Tannoy, Westminster SE or GR perhaps.

I personally really like the Canterbury and what you describe is exactly how you should feel when making a decision. We seem to spend far too much time immersed in extracting that last bit of resolution or detail and completely miss the point of listening in the first place. If the Canterburys bring you to that place it's all good. I would, though, just for completeness audition the Westminsters as well. They are something and may be you will like them even more.

 

[Uwiik]

The guy who owns the Westminster SE available for audition is the same guy who owns the loaner Canterbury SE I have. He is not a Tannoy dealer, those two sets of Tannoy are his personal speakers. I don’t feel good asking him to deliver the Westminster SE if I am not sure that I will definitely buy one. How would the SE compares to GR? Both Canterbury and Westminster SE can be had affordably here and I have read quite a bit about Duelund crossover upgrade boosting the performance of Westminster SE significantly. I have called several people and asked around and nobody have any Canterbury or Westminster GR for sale or audition but I imagine the price difference would be vast between SE and GR? Will I get better sound by upgrading SE to Duelund crossover compared to buying GR?

 

[Uwiik]

BTW: can anybody confirm that horns are very directional? If it is, then my quest for speakers shall be much simpler, cheaper and quicker, Tannoy Dual Concentric it is.

I just did a couple of listening sessions upstairs and downstairs. Upstair the imaging is perfect much better in instruments separation than downstairs but if I dare to move my head slightly away from the dead center position the imaging are immediately and noticeably worse, not bad at all just not as perfect. However, sideway seating position is an absolute disaster. I do not want another pinpoint seating position system like in my bedroom, I want a general good for everyone in the room system downstairs, a system that doesn’t absolutely demands the pinpoint seating position, it’s for mancave where me and family/friends will hang out together.

 

[thedudeabides]

Check out MBL for ultimate listening flexibility. The 116 is relatively small but plays very big. However, space behind the wall is recommended to optimize performance.

 

[Uwiik]

Check out MBL for ultimate listening flexibility. The 116 is relatively small but plays very big. However, space behind the wall is recommended to optimize performance.

I don’t think my 27W Kondo Ongaku would drive this speaker properly.

 

[PeterA]

the WAF of Westies is approximately zero.

I think it depends Keith. My wife would love a room large enough to support speakers like the Westministers. And she likes wood much more than metal speakers. Placement seems to also matter. Back near the front wall is better than out into the room.

 

[PeterA]

If anybody can confirm that horns speaker is very directional, demanding one and only seating position for good sound and everyone else on sideway seating position will get bad sound I think I will stop considering Avantgarde and decide on the Tannoy, Westminster SE or GR perhaps.

I listened to the large Bionor horns every day at @ddk 's place over a week long visit and the sound was great regardless of where in the room one sat. No need to be in the one and only central seating position for good sound. I did not get the sense that it was very directional. I don't know if Avantgarde's are different, but I don't think one can generalize about this aspect of listening with all horn designs. Perhaps it was something else in ddk's system that contributed to this sense of envelopment regardless of seating or standing position.