Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

[Guscom]

Ho abbandonato il vinile 20 anni fa sostenendo che oramai il digitale era oramai maturo per competere alla pari con il miglior vinile.
La mia scelta tecnica è ricaduta sulla tecnologia zero oversampling il dac e stato costruito da un artigiano di alto livello .Considero questo dac un esempio pratico di come si debba costruire un oggetto che non faccia rimpiangere il vinile.

RJM Audio - non-oversampling DAC

phonoclone.com

Hi, from your words I assume you own an Ongaku. Have you tried some analog devices with Ongaku? Ongaku was been developed from Kondo san with analog sound in mind, this is the best way to hear analog. Try Ongaku with an M7 riaa (phono only) and a Kondo step up + a mc cartridge and you will be in the nirvana. A curiosity: are you italian?

 

[Fred Crane]

A new place to hear the Ongaku...

Destination Audio and Prana Distribution are very pleased to announce Audio Limits of Nevada as a new team member representing Destination Audio and Audio Note. Darrin O'Neil the founder and owner of Audio Limits has been in the audio business for 30 plus years. His matter-of-fact, easy-going nature belies his expertise and a long history of firsts in the U.S. industry.

Beginning with Audio 51 some 30+ years ago, Apogee Acoustics and Hales Loudspeakers along with Weiss and CEC formed the genesis of what would become Audio Limits. Audio Limits expanded the undertaking with such venerable brands as Audio Note (UK), Weiss, Forsell, FM Acoustics, Nearfield Acoustics, Tom Evans and Thrax. Those were the early days of distribution.

Now extending their portfolio with Destination Audio Field Coil Nika's and the Destination Audio Reference GM70 Integrated Amplifier, Darrin is writing a new chapter in Audio Limits' long storied history. You can hear the Nika's along with the Audio Note Ongaku or the GM70 from Destination and other top brands to compare and contrast. Here is Darrin and his father, Gene, sorely missed on the audio trail.

 

[Rhapsody]

A new place to hear the Ongaku...

Destination Audio and Prana Distribution are very pleased to announce Audio Limits of Nevada as a new team member representing Destination Audio and Audio Note. Darrin O'Neil the founder and owner of Audio Limits has been in the audio business for 30 plus years. His matter-of-fact, easy-going nature belies his expertise and a long history of firsts in the U.S. industry.

Beginning with Audio 51 some 30+ years ago, Apogee Acoustics and Hales Loudspeakers along with Weiss and CEC formed the genesis of what would become Audio Limits. Audio Limits expanded the undertaking with such venerable brands as Audio Note (UK), Weiss, Forsell, FM Acoustics, Nearfield Acoustics, Tom Evans and Thrax. Those were the early days of distribution.

Now extending their portfolio with Destination Audio Field Coil Nika's and the Destination Audio Reference GM70 Integrated Amplifier, Darrin is writing a new chapter in Audio Limits' long storied history. You can hear the Nika's along with the Audio Note Ongaku or the GM70 from Destination and other top brands to compare and contrast. Here is Darrin and his father, Gene, sorely missed on the audio trail.

View attachment 95973

Congrats to Darrin, he's a great guy! Just to note it's mentioned that Audio Limits represents Destination Audio (which is great) and Audio Note. Audio Limits does NOT represent Audio Note Japan/Kondo. I believe that Darrin does have an Ongaku but Audio Limits again does NOT represent Kondo.

 

[Audiolimits]

Congrats to Darrin, he's a great guy! Just to note it's mentioned that Audio Limits represents Destination Audio (which is great) and Audio Note. Audio Limits does NOT represent Audio Note Japan/Kondo. I believe that Darrin does have an Ongaku but Audio Limits again does

A new place to hear the Ongaku...

Destination Audio and Prana Distribution are very pleased to announce Audio Limits of Nevada as a new team member representing Destination Audio and Audio Note. Darrin O'Neil the founder and owner of Audio Limits has been in the audio business for 30 plus years. His matter-of-fact, easy-going nature belies his expertise and a long history of firsts in the U.S. industry.

Beginning with Audio 51 some 30+ years ago, Apogee Acoustics and Hales Loudspeakers along with Weiss and CEC formed the genesis of what would become Audio Limits. Audio Limits expanded the undertaking with such venerable brands as Audio Note (UK), Weiss, Forsell, FM Acoustics, Nearfield Acoustics, Tom Evans and Thrax. Those were the early days of distribution.

Now extending their portfolio with Destination Audio Field Coil Nika's and the Destination Audio Reference GM70 Integrated Amplifier, Darrin is writing a new chapter in Audio Limits' long storied history. You can hear the Nika's along with the Audio Note Ongaku or the GM70 from Destination and other top brands to compare and contrast. Here is Darrin and his father, Gene, sorely missed on the audio trail.

View attachment 95973

Thank you very much Fred. This Destination Audio Nika system with both the GM 70 and the Ongaku is sounds absolutely incredible. I look forward to seeing You and Sam this September

 

[Fred Crane]

Thank you very much Fred. This Destination Audio Nika system with both the GM 70 and the Ongaku is sounds absolutely incredible. I look forward to seeing You and Sam this September

The pleasure is mine Darrin. Fun days ahead!!

 

[TDX]

Thanks a lot! FYI putting the Pilium Elektra on action was one of the greatest moment of this afternoon. It was an ear opener…Too bad I got a slightly defective unit and dealer said waiting for replacement as they have AK chip shortage due to the fire

What’s the defective did you find? I also own an Elektra.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Today was a real revelation. I realized how agnostic my current setup is. I had a friend visiting and he liked electronic and trance, we blasted the system with lots of Alan Walker, Tiesto, etc and oh my God it was like inside a club, very solid sound pressure with totally non fatiguing sound, off course bass was perfect…

Hi Uwiik,
Wondering if you tried using the Avantgarde basshorns along with your WVL Berlins when you were comparing the Berlins with the G3s yesterday.

Also how did the Avantgarde G3s compare on their own (without the basshorns) to the quality and nature of the Berlin’s bass on its own. OB bass optimised can be really great and have drive and feel very much like being in a nightclub in terms of the bass having real openess and immediacy when the amp is a good match which is something you experienced earlier with the Berlins.

Or if you are (understandably) won over by the Avantgarde G3 + basshorn combination would getting the Avantegarde basshorns initially and running them with the Berlin’s first and then upgrade the WVLs to the G3’s as the next step (instead of the going the other way around) and then not being left without it being a full range system for a year or two.

Or you could consider getting a pair of Purelow panel subwoofers to run with the WVL Berlins initially (and run those with an amp on the subs of your choosing and a really well specified bespoke passive crossover)… still get the G3s later but ultimately running the G3s with the Purelow subs in a more compact footprint than the Avantegarde G3 + basshorn combo.

 

[LL21]

Hi Uwiik,
Wondering if you tried using the Avantgarde basshorns along with your WVL Berlins when you were comparing the Berlins with the G3s yesterday.

Also how did the Avantgarde G3s compare on their own (without the basshorns) to the quality and nature of the Berlin’s bass on its own. OB bass optimised can be really great and have drive and feel very much like being in a nightclub in terms of the bass having real openess and immediacy when the amp is a good match which is something you experienced earlier with the Berlins.

Or if you are (understandably) won over by the Avantgarde G3 + basshorn combination would getting the Avantegarde basshorns initially and running them with the Berlin’s first and then upgrade the WVLs to the G3’s as the next step (instead of the going the other way around) and then not being left without it being a full range system for a year or two.

Or you could consider getting a pair of Purelow panel subwoofers to run with the WVL Berlins initially (and run those with an amp on the subs of your choosing and a really well specified bespoke passive crossover)… still get the G3s later but ultimately running the G3s with the Purelow subs in a more compact footprint than the Avantegarde G3 + basshorn combo.

Interesting take. I was not sure space was the issue in his new home? I think it was more the outlay all at once...and I think a pair of Purelow is possibly very close the cost of the pair of basshorns. Have not looked into all the details of the configurations but definitely seemed like a pair of either is around $70K+

 

[the sound of Tao]

Interesting take. I was not sure space was the issue in his new home? I think it was more the outlay all at once...and I think a pair of Purelow is possibly very close the cost of the pair of basshorns. Have not looked into all the details of the configurations but definitely seemed like a pair of either is around $70K+

It wasn’t really necessarily the way I felt Uwiik was heading Lloyd but I just thought it’s good sometimes to run devils advocate as well. I put myself (I wish) into his fab shoes and was thinking that when we talk about end game systems we should think about being able to take gear through with us even when we might have to consider a bit of a downsizing at some stage. The G3s would possibly survive some downsize but the basshorns preclude that.

The other thoughts above that final thought were probably the main ones I was really throwing in. To be honest I totally loved the G3 + basshorn move. Getting the basshorns first and then getting a pair of G3s would strike me as a big time fun lifetime speaker upgrade path over a year or two… and also if I had a Ongaku there’s no way I’d be letting go of it… a thing of great function and beauty.

 

[Zeotrope]

Hi Uwiik,
Wondering if you tried using the Avantgarde basshorns along with your WVL Berlins when you were comparing the Berlins with the G3s yesterday.

Also how did the Avantgarde G3s compare on their own (without the basshorns) to the quality and nature of the Berlin’s bass on its own. OB bass optimised can be really great and have drive and feel very much like being in a nightclub in terms of the bass having real openess and immediacy when the amp is a good match which is something you experienced earlier with the Berlins.

Or if you are (understandably) won over by the Avantgarde G3 + basshorn combination would getting the Avantegarde basshorns initially and running them with the Berlin’s first and then upgrade the WVLs to the G3’s as the next step (instead of the going the other way around) and then not being left without it being a full range system for a year or two.

Or you could consider getting a pair of Purelow panel subwoofers to run with the WVL Berlins initially (and run those with an amp on the subs of your choosing and a really well specified bespoke passive crossover)… still get the G3s later but ultimately running the G3s with the Purelow subs in a more compact footprint than the Avantegarde G3 + basshorn combo.

Trying to follow this but it’s very confusing (at least to my small mind).

@Uwiik - do you own the WVL Berlin? What do you think about them? I imagine they are considerably better (more like live music) than the Avantegarde G3.

 

[Lagonda]

Hi Uwiik,
Wondering if you tried using the Avantgarde basshorns along with your WVL Berlins when you were comparing the Berlins with the G3s yesterday.

Also how did the Avantgarde G3s compare on their own (without the basshorns) to the quality and nature of the Berlin’s bass on its own. OB bass optimised can be really great and have drive and feel very much like being in a nightclub in terms of the bass having real openess and immediacy when the amp is a good match which is something you experienced earlier with the Berlins.

Or if you are (understandably) won over by the Avantgarde G3 + basshorn combination would getting the Avantegarde basshorns initially and running them with the Berlin’s first and then upgrade the WVLs to the G3’s as the next step (instead of the going the other way around) and then not being left without it being a full range system for a year or two.

Or you could consider getting a pair of Purelow panel subwoofers to run with the WVL Berlins initially (and run those with an amp on the subs of your choosing and a really well specified bespoke passive crossover)… still get the G3s later but ultimately running the G3s with the Purelow subs in a more compact footprint than the Avantegarde G3 + basshorn combo.

Wow, that Purelow sub panel is sure getting a lot of attention for somthing no one has heard ! Have you heard it Graham ?

 

[LL21]

Trying to follow this but it’s very confusing (at least to my small mind).

@Uwiik - do you own the WVL Berlin? What do you think about them? I imagine they are considerably better (more like live music) than the Avantegarde G3.

Todd's AG Trio G3 System -- it's about time

I have to say that despite not having found a horn experience where I could say it inspired me to want to learn more about horns, I have gained that interest here on this forum. Hence why I read a lot about Destination Audio, some of the interesting Japanese work, DDK and some of the all-out...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Start at Post 401 from Uwiik:

I could trade in my Kondo Ongaku for the Itron and my WVL Berlin for the G3 speakers, but that will mean I am abandoning tube amplification on my fully maxed Ongaku, I don’t know what I am going to do with my tubes collection….There is no way I can comfortably afford the G3 without me making some concession with my current system and I don’t like putting too much effort on money for audio, been there and wasn’t pretty.

My current system is already fantastic as it is but this G3 is just another league altogether even when compared to my WVL Berlin… When I bought my WVL Berlin I knew already at the corner of my mind that I might want more down the road, but when I auditioned the G3+basshorns I got a feeling that this might actually be my endgame…

I am strongly considering buying the G3 first without basshorns right now…. In fact, I am going to the dealer in about an hour time, he is setting up the G3 combined with the rest of my gears (Taiko, Pilium DAC, Kondo G70 pre) in his showroom for me to hear.

 

[Zeotrope]

Interesting. I have heard the opposite. I find Avantegard horns quite colored. And I don’t mean the color of the plastic horns - which is quite beautiful.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Wow, that Purelow sub panel is sure getting a lot of attention for somthing no one has heard ! Have you heard it Graham ?

I’ve not Milan, I’ve also read quite a few mentions recently so I checked out the review… that said the review does seem to be the one data point most seem to be locking onto though I would think it might be worth finding out about if I was in the market for a top end sub to mate with horns. But I still think if I was going for G3 the sway of the basshorn would weigh as a very attractive option.

PureLow hifi+ review

 

[Solypsa]

I’ve not Milan, I’ve also read quite a few mentions recently so I checked out the review… that said the review does seem to be the one data point most seem to be locking onto though I would think it might be worth finding out about if I was in the market for a top end sub to mate with horns. But I still think if I was going for G3 the sway of the basshorn would weigh as a very attractive option.

PureLow hifi+ review

Spl capacity?

 

[the sound of Tao]

Trying to follow this but it’s very confusing (at least to my small mind).

@Uwiik - do you own the WVL Berlin? What do you think about them? I imagine they are considerably better (more like live music) than the Avantegarde G3.

Hi Zeotrope,
You can read about Uwiik’s adventures with his WVL Berlin starting back in this thread from the earlier post #386.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Spl capacity?

Doesn’t mention it in the specs…

 

[LL21]

Doesn’t mention it in the specs…

I have to say, the surface area of Pure-Lo is big, but the excursion is understandably tiny. And doing the air displacement simple math (surface area times excursion)...it is not even a solid 18" subwoofer in terms of air movement. That does NOT mean it does not come across as more powerful because of its absolute speed and 'punch'...a la Apogee...but I do wonder if someone is trying to match massive horns that are cavern-filling whether a pair of Pure-Los are going to be able to cope.

I am NO TECHIE, so this is all conjecture and happy to be taught how this all works. Trust me...I contacted the manufacturer and emailed them the week that this review came out!!! I did not pursue very hard...no need to get into that.

But I do wonder about the all-out power capability of this, even if I am genuinely intrigued by its speed/instant slam capability. I look at Alsyvox, Clarysis, Maggie 30.7 and other panel makers who did bass panels...they are all really big...some bigger even than the Pure Lo. But is the Pure Lo going to produce massive air movement?

 

[Zeotrope]

You got all the points spot on couldn’t agree more, but I forgot to mention that we did try it with AirTight ATM-2211 and ATC-5 Pre and it wasn’t impressive at all either, ATM-2211 paired with Kondo’s G70 driving the big Berlin was something else entirely though, it was sublime. On sensible volume Ongaku + G70 was much better, on louder volume ATM-2211 + G70 was better due to lower distortion.

Just catching up here…
I have custom designed field coil horns that, according to Nagra’s Rene LaFlamme, is the only horn he’s ever heard that has no colouration. They were initially driven by Kondo Japan M77 and Souga, which was quite nice; but nothing compared to the DarTZeel 18NS and 108. So I would not rule out SS amplification, not from DarTZeel anyway.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I have to say, the surface area of Pure-Lo is big, but the excursion is understandably tiny. And doing the air displacement simple math (surface area times excursion)...it is not even a solid 18" subwoofer in terms of air movement. That does NOT mean it does not come across as more powerful because of its absolute speed and 'punch'...a la Apogee...but I do wonder if someone is trying to match massive horns that are cavern-filling whether a pair of Pure-Los are going to be able to cope.

I am NO TECHIE, so this is all conjecture and happy to be taught how this all works. Trust me...I contacted the manufacturer and emailed them the week that this review came out!!! I did not pursue very hard...no need to get into that.

But I do wonder about the all-out power capability of this, even if I am genuinely intrigued by its speed/instant slam capability. I look at Alsyvox, Clarysis, Maggie 30.7 and other panel makers who did bass panels...they are all really big...some bigger even than the Pure Lo. But is the Pure Lo going to produce massive air movement?

All good points, especially in regards to getting panels to energise such a big space. Anyone considering these definitely would want a demo (and in a good sized space) to see.

Probably for a large ribbon panel buyer panel subs might be the sub bass ideal. It makes sense then that for a horn main a basshorn is more likely the natural fit for sub bass… and the logic might roll out also that slot loaded OB bass for OB speakers and six packs of RELs or similar for big tower dynamic cone box sub solutions is more going with the flow in terms of matching up of speaker type characteristics. Like others I also see benefits if possible in matching amps on mains and subs.