Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

[morricab]

Very very interesting. The construction is very similar between PAP and WVL Berlin Except that Berlin is Field Coil. Your statement about Ongaku and OB seems to support my findings, I admit that I don’t have much experience with different horns nor OB speakers but I don think it’s easy to best what I heard two weeks ago. In fact right now my dealer is arranging home demo for the WVL Berlin, perhaps in 1-2 weeks. The dealer will also loan me a HSE Swiss Reference Phono to replace my Jadis JS3, I originally wanted an EMT Phono but I don’t always get what I want LOL…Peeps said HSE is better though, I just don’t like the design and fully balanced plugs.

Do you know what compression drivers are used in the WVL Berlin?

 

[LL21]

LOL, my first pick since months ago, unfortunately I am still a businessman, not a politician or superstar so I can’t afford it

You might speak with Kevin about designing his speakers to a different build-spec. I believe the pair that are at Spiritland Kings Cross London are based on his Olympia speakers but far more affordable...I have spoken with the owners at Spiritland about them briefly as they know Kevin well.

 

[mtemur]

I think you have to get close to 100db efficiency for Kondo amps. I think the Goebels are like Kaisers in the low-mid 90s, but like the Kaisers that are 93db efficient they REALLY respond when you give them power.

IME sensitivity of a speaker is not a big problem for a SET amplifier like ongaku. It works fine with 90dB or even surprisingly with 87dB but it would be better to use it with speakers which have a sensitivity of 93 or more. BUT like all SET amplifiers low impedance and/or high negative phase angle is a big problem. Lower than 3-4 ohms.

 

[Rhapsody]

IME sensitivity of a speaker is not a big problem for a SET amplifier like ongaku. It works fine with 90dB or even surprisingly with 87dB but it would be better to use it with speakers which have a sensitivity of 93 or more. BUT like all SET amplifiers low impedance and/or high negative phase angle is a big problem. Lower than 3-4 ohms.

My experience has been it has a lot to do with the size of the room, how loud one listens, what kind of music they listen to and then as you say the impedance curve.

Sure an Ongaku will sound Nice on a a 90db speaker and some people are fine with it....until you push it and it distorts. Put it on a 100db easy to drive speakers and it's a different experience....for me anyway.

Although my experience is limited to maybe 30 different speakers with Ongakus driving them.

 

[mtemur]

My experience has been it has a lot to do with the size of the room, how loud one listens, what kind of music they listen to and then as you say the impedance curve.

Sure an Ongaku will sound Nice on a a 90db speaker and some people are fine with it....until you push it and it distorts. Put it on a 100db easy to drive speakers and it's a different experience....for me anyway.

Although my experience is limited to maybe 30 different speakers with Ongakus driving them.

You are absolutely right.

My friend is listening ongaku with 87dB speakers in a 60 square meters room but a more sensitive speaker would be better.

 

[Rhapsody]

You are absolutely right.

My friend is listening ongaku with 87dB speakers in a 60 square meters room but a more sensitive speaker would be better.

That's a pretty good sized room. I would guess that it would be possible to push/clip it with certain music/volume in that size room. Depends like you say a LOT on how low the impedance drops and also at what frequencies it drops at. But if played at moderate levels it's probably a nice sounding system. I've played with 87db speakers and thought it was good, until I heard it on 99db speakers

 

[Rhapsody]

I've also found that when using the Ongaku with any speaker lower than 95dbish if you use a preamp in front of the Ongaku, it can REALLY make a HUGE difference. Seems to feel like the power is doubled. A G70 works nicely. I use a G1000 with my Ongaku even into high efficiency and I really like it vs. the Ongaku flying solo.

 

[ALF]

I find the Celestion Creamback Alnico speakers are a good fit…especially with a Ibanez tube screamer in the chain between a Burst/Strat and the Ongaku. Your cabinet of choice; mostly, I prefer Marshall.

vbw,
-a

 

[Uwiik]

Do you know what compression drivers are used in the WVL Berlin?

Good question! No idea though, I’ll ask the dealer.

 

[Uwiik]

I've also found that when using the Ongaku with any speaker lower than 95dbish if you use a preamp in front of the Ongaku, it can REALLY make a HUGE difference. Seems to feel like the power is doubled. A G70 works nicely. I use a G1000 with my Ongaku even into high efficiency and I really like it vs. the Ongaku flying solo.

as much as I like my Ongaku, I don’t think it’s nice without pre amp.

 

[Verdier]

Good question! No idea though, I’ll ask the dealer.

possibly such:

WVL | Premium Field Coil Loudspeakers

 

[Uwiik]

Do you know what compression drivers are used in the WVL Berlin?

Got the answer in an instant. All the drivers are WVL’s own and they do sell the individual drivers.

 

[Uwiik]

possibly such:

WVL | Premium Field Coil Loudspeakers

There you go

 

[morricab]

Got the answer in an instant. All the drivers are WVL’s own and they do sell the individual drivers.

Beautiful drivers. Do you know if the Berlin has Al or Be diaphragms? Any idea on the prices?

 

[Verdier]

78 k€ (inc. tax in germany)
Wolf von Langa London: der außergewöhnliche 2-Wege Dipol (lowbeats.de)

 

[the sound of Tao]

Beautiful drivers. Do you know if the Berlin has Al or Be diaphragms? Any idea on the prices?

Here linked are the separate WVL drivers only info Brad… click menu at the site to see the range

WVL field coil drivers

 

[DasguteOhr]

Expensive gear WvL here

WOLFVONLANGA-Lautsprecher

WOLFVONLANGA-Lautsprecher

www.lautsprechershop.de

 

[Uwiik]

Beautiful drivers. Do you know if the Berlin has Al or Be diaphragms? Any idea on the prices?

It’s EUR88K here but I can haggle …. I’ll ask the dealer. I have demoed the Berlin in the dealer’s room before, but it was driven by either Audionet or Accuphase A-250, didn’t like it until the dealer tried it with Kondo, now I think it was the best I have ever heard

 

[morricab]

It’s EUR88K here but I can haggle …. I’ll ask the dealer. I have demoed the Berlin in the dealer’s room before, but it was driven by either Audionet or Accuphase A-250, didn’t like it until the dealer tried it with Kondo, now I think it was the best I have ever heard

Running a horn with SS is, IMO, the ultimate sin . The flaws that were hidden with less sensitive speakers (or at least glossed over) just get ruthlessly exposed. Now that I know what the drivers cost...I am not surprised by the final speaker price. Before you decide though you should try to get to Michel in Belgium (the Aries Cerat importer for Benelux) and hear an all AC system with Symphonias...which is about the same price in the most basic finish (the exotic finishes are, admittedly, pricey). Maybe you still like the Berlin more but then I think you have heard two of the best in that price range...

 

[Uwiik]

Running a horn with SS is, IMO, the ultimate sin . The flaws that were hidden with less sensitive speakers (or at least glossed over) just get ruthlessly exposed. Now that I know what the drivers cost...I am not surprised by the final speaker price. Before you decide though you should try to get to Michel in Belgium (the Aries Cerat importer for Benelux) and hear an all AC system with Symphonias...which is about the same price in the most basic finish (the exotic finishes are, admittedly, pricey). Maybe you still like the Berlin more but then I think you have heard two of the best in that price range...

You got all the points spot on couldn’t agree more, but I forgot to mention that we did try it with AirTight ATM-2211 and ATC-5 Pre and it wasn’t impressive at all either, ATM-2211 paired with Kondo’s G70 driving the big Berlin was something else entirely though, it was sublime. On sensible volume Ongaku + G70 was much better, on louder volume ATM-2211 + G70 was better due to lower distortion.