Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

[morricab]

He was planning the canary audio from what I heard. Not sure now.

He has been carrying Canary Audio for a while now...even had a cd player in Munich one year...was far behind either the kondo DAC or the NeoDio Origine cd player...

 

[morricab]

Yes, he moved away from Kondo, like you said. He was actually going to do his own electronics, but like you say that didn't happen. Not sure what happened with Engstrom and LV, which I thought prior to Covid is where he was heading. No idea really.

On the Definitive website they carry Atelier Du Triode brand...perhaps they will go there? Would make more sense than CH...

 

[DasguteOhr]

Interesting speakers...more or less conventional but with quite high sensitivity because they have unloaded the bass onto DSP based amplification built-in.

Yes sir. should fit very well, you have to say goodbye to the 27 watts, 16-18 watts are realistic. Maybe in Japan. everyone who is familiar with building, that the operation of the class A 1 reaches a maximum of 1250 V / 60 mA ~ 19.7 watts. the kondo only runs 960v* / 75mA

P.S I've read it wrong, read out the values in the circuit diagram and changed them

 

[bonzo75]

There was a room in 2019 (I think) with Engstrom electronics...wasn't even close to the room with Kondo...

It was a totally different room with totally different speakers?

Iirc when Howie posted his videos kondo came last behind engstrom and Koda, and he confirmed his impressions were the same.

 

[Rhapsody]

It was a totally different room with totally different speakers?

Iirc when Howie posted his videos kondo came last behind engstrom and Koda, and he confirmed his impressions were the same.

Yes, but wasn't that on his new Goebels? I think Kondo needs really efficient speakers to do their thing. That's been my experience anyway.

 

[Rhapsody]

And I'm doing this from memory but I think the Lars amps are 36 Watts AND THEY ARE PUSH PULL. Push Pull will drive speakers like Goebels or any other non really efficient speakers SO MUCH better than a SET amplifier. Again, that's been my experience. I know Goebels are efficient AND beautiful and sound GREAT, but I think Kondo needs high efficiency speakers.

I think you have to get close to 100db efficiency for Kondo amps. I think the Goebels are like Kaisers in the low-mid 90s, but like the Kaisers that are 93db efficient they REALLY respond when you give them power.

 

[howiebrou]

Do you think Souga would work on your Goebel speakers?

Gosh. Don't know. 95dB. I'm sure it would sound great on some types of music but might run out of steam. The Goebels seem to like quite a bit of power.

 

[howiebrou]

And I'm doing this from memory but I think the Lars amps are 36 Watts AND THEY ARE PUSH PULL. Push Pull will drive speakers like Goebels or any other non really efficient speakers SO MUCH better than a SET amplifier. Again, that's been my experience. I know Goebels are efficient AND beautiful and sound GREAT, but I think Kondo needs high efficiency speakers.

I think you have to get close to 100db efficiency for Kondo amps. I think the Goebels are like Kaisers in the low-mid 90s.

They were Erics which are 70W push pull so yes I agree they would be more powerful than the 50W single ended Kagura. Still miss my Kagura though.

 

[Rhapsody]

They were Erics which are 70W push pull so yes I agree they would be more powerful than the 50W single ended Kagura. Still miss my Kagura though.

Yeah, I think 70 Watt PP are GREAT size amps. Low power enough to sound great, but can drive most speakers. Even the 36 Watts PP can drive most speakers.

 

[howiebrou]

no, unfortunately I didn’t have a chance to compare M-77 to other preamps. I’m guessing that it would be superior compared to M-7 line or G-70 cause it has a kondo custom made stepped attenuator

I had a Vitus prepower combo on loan and decided to swap out the vitus preamp for my M77. Blew it into the weeds. There really wasn't much comparison.

 

[bonzo75]

Yes, but wasn't that on his new Goebels? I think Kondo needs really efficient speakers to do their thing. That's been my experience anyway.

I don't know. I quoted random video experience to counter Brad's compare of kondo room at Munich with engstrom room at Munich

 

[howiebrou]

I think I heard that from someone in the UK that he was either going to do it or was seriously thinking about it. I was quite surprised, and it made me think of Gian60 and JackD201 both of whom have spent a lot of time with SET (Lamm, Kondo, etc) both moving across to CH expressly on the basis that among other things the crystalline purity of CH is similar to part of the magic of SET.

I have to say I would never compare CH with SET amps. IMO they don't sound alike at all.

 

[Verdier]

I think I heard that from someone in the UK that he was either going to do it or was seriously thinking about it. I was quite surprised, and it made me think of Gian60 and JackD201 both of whom have spent a lot of time with SET (Lamm, Kondo, etc) both moving across to CH expressly on the basis that among other things the crystalline purity of CH is similar to part of the magic of SET.

These are very interesting findings ....

On the other hand, I had a solid state system consisting of a Trinity Reference preamp and Mark Levinson ML-2 amps. I also tested CH Precision L1 + A1.5 in this system. It was a little bit better, although it was actually only a little bit better with the L1. The A1.5 was just a little different, but not better. After that I switched to Aries Cerat Impera + Essentia. (O.k. tube pre and triode fet amp). That was much, much, much better.

 

[morricab]

I don't know. I quoted random video experience to counter Brad's compare of kondo room at Munich with engstrom room at Munich

Really authoritative

 

[LL21]

I have to say I would never compare CH with SET amps. IMO they don't sound alike at all.

I get what you are saying...and I have never heard but this was my take away from the following 2 posts:

Major SET owner? (Kondo Souga, etc)

Hallo to everybody,sorry to repeat,my first tube was in 1979,ARC D 90 B,and the last Kondo Souga in 2015.
I loved all my tube amp i had,ARC D 250,Arc M 300,Jadis 30,80,200,500,Carver Silver 7,for one week,Klimo OTL,M&A TVA1,Hal AMP,Counterpoint,Panthere,Yamamura,all top Audio Tekne,FAL integrated,top Dissanayake,ANJ M10,Kageki,Baransu,Neiro,Neiro Silver,Ongaku Gakuon,Mactone M8V otl mono,Shindo Petrus,300B limited and Shinonia,ANUK Jinro,Leak tl 12,QuadII,Radford sta 15,Mc Intosh MC 240,MC30,MC60,MC75
all very beautiful,but now i love my CH and i don't want change with anything

From major Lamm distributor and owner (SET?)

The CH Paradox

...Through the years however, a trend began to develop. While members explored as usual, those landing in the CH camp were switching over from tube land. Guy with vaccum tube bomb avatar (see left) has own theory and here it is.

I think that there are fundamentally two kinds of tube guys. There are those that prize the linearity of triodes most highly and those that prize the warmth some tube designs offer most highly. It shows in the preferences in tube types and tubes within those types too. Are you a Telefunker or a Mullardator? LOL Okay obviously I am oversimplifying this. Hey it's just a theory ok? In any case, I have gathered that those switching to CH are the Telefunkers for lack of a better descriptor. OTLers and 2a3-ers doesn't have the same ring to it. Anyways...........the guys that like speed and delicacy because rough edges drive us nuts and overhang puts us to sleep really quickly.

In the past when it was said that a solid state amp sounded tube like it meant that it was smooth and perhaps warm. You never heard from anybody that a solid state amp sounded tubelike in terms of articulation particularly when it comes to ambience. These amps were almost always zero feedback pure class A designs. The bias indeed reduces the zero crossing distortion or eliminates it altogether. Such was my love for my Aleph 0 and my other love, the age defying M1.2 Reference.

So here are the funkers and the mullardy guys are saying we're nuts. NOT tubelike they yell! Peace out bros, my theory is we aren't talking about the same aspects. No CH will not give you the hot chocolate with marshmallows feeling..........unless it's on the recording ...

 

[the sound of Tao]

I first heard OB speakers with the Alta Audio Titanium Hestia speakers. A little more expensive, I think now $33K. It was my first experience with OB. Just like when I first heard Maggies and then Apogees in the 80's they "did the trick" for me. The Altas are only 90db and like some power, but they are OB, but with a sealed bass cabinet (nice combination). imo, all OB, including the spatial and the Pure Audio Project have an open sound that again, works for me. Pretty much the same as I enjoy most panel speakers as well, Maggies included.

I would love a Kondo Ongaku for my pureaudioproject project. Kondo SET with silver trafos and silver wired throughout would marry beautifully with the open nature of an OB horn combo. I already have 7n upocc silver as the hookup in my horns and as the signal cables. The open and immediate nature of horns, OB, SET and upocc silver is a very live and natural marriage.

While in my case the price points may be in different postcodes silver wound Kondo SET and a pair of OB horns could be an engagingly lifelike and luxe combo.

 

[Uwiik]

I would love a Kondo Ongaku for my pureaudioproject project. Kondo SET with silver trafos and silver wired throughout would marry beautifully with the open nature of an OB horn combo. I already have 7n upocc silver as the hookup in my horns and as the signal cables. The open and immediate nature of horns, OB, SET and upocc silver is a very live and natural marriage.

While in my case the price points may be in different postcodes silver wound Kondo SET and a pair of OB horns could be an engagingly lifelike and luxe combo.

Very very interesting. The construction is very similar between PAP and WVL Berlin Except that Berlin is Field Coil. Your statement about Ongaku and OB seems to support my findings, I admit that I don’t have much experience with different horns nor OB speakers but I don think it’s easy to best what I heard two weeks ago. In fact right now my dealer is arranging home demo for the WVL Berlin, perhaps in 1-2 weeks. The dealer will also loan me a HSE Swiss Reference Phono to replace my Jadis JS3, I originally wanted an EMT Phono but I don’t always get what I want LOL…Peeps said HSE is better though, I just don’t like the design and fully balanced plugs.

 

[Uwiik]

The big Living Voice system in Munich, paired with Kondo electronics sounded pretty good to my ears, it was actually my favourite room, apart from the room that played the big Western systems. Perhaps Living Voice could be a nice choice for your Ongaku.

LOL, my first pick since months ago, unfortunately I am still a businessman, not a politician or superstar so I can’t afford it

 

[Uwiik]

Do you have G70 or new G70I ?
Have you tried both?

the original G70, it’s an amazing little pre amp

 

[BruceD]

Kevin is moving away from kondo. He was going to have different electronics in 2020 (didn't happen) let's see this time

Before Kondo he had Mactone--I still use them.

BruceD