Those Roma Triodes are quite a special speaker. When I heard them in Munich a couple of times I was very impressed with the level of realism I heard from them and not just the audiophile checklist sound.
Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help
- Thread starter Uwiik
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no, unfortunately I didn’t have a chance to compare M-77 to other preamps. I’m guessing that it would be superior compared to M-7 line or G-70 cause it has a kondo custom made stepped attenuator
I would bet that it would not be a good match. Only going by when I drive the 99db RT or Roma with my original '88 Kondo Neiro 2A3 (Silver input and output transformers) that sounds amazing, vs. when you put on more power, like my Ongaku (I have an '89 with original GE VT-4C's 211s) although magical sounding and I prefer it, seems a bit underpowered (depending on the music) compared to the ONgaku.
Just out of curiosity, what is the step down in performance to something like the Caput Mundi?
The only time I heard the Caput Mundi vs. the Roma Triode was in Munich in 2019 in the Diesis room. They were standing right next to each other. They were being driven by the hybrid Diesis integrated and Ongkau with nos tubes.
We had listened to the RT for 2 days, we then connected the CM (12" woofers instead of 15"s and no super tweeter on the CM, same frame) I looked at Giuseppe (owner/designer) and said I hate to say it but I don't think I can tell the difference. That was in a big room at the Marriott with lot's of people etc, so hard to say, but to me personally I feel like the CM is the sweet spot in the Diesis line at 1/3 the price of the RT. Although the Roma, which is in-between is cool if you just want 15" woofers and the ST.
I agree 100% that the Kagura is not a good match for either the M3 or any Magico speaker. It just so happened when Ked visited me that was the only speaker that I had at that time that I could even attempt to drive with the Kaguras. Definitely a mistake to even play for anyone. The Vitus was a MUCH better match.
However, you would think that someone like Bonzo - who listens to so many different systems and has a major focus on horns (and related tube amps) right now - would know all this. That's why I can't understand his impressions of Kondo electronics described above, which are based on driving with the inappropriate speakers ...
Yes, I was in that room but every time I visited the RT was hooked up and not the CM...but that room was still quite revealing so if they were that close then for a smaller room the CM might be a very good choice as it is substantially less obtrusive.
Sorry, I know kondo can't drive Magico or apogees. I said I also heard ongaku on Diesis. I mentioned the Rhapsody specifically because Ron said he liked it there. Your question should be why is Ron voicing on an amp that was driving the inappropriate speaker. Kondo room is there every year in Munich. Whichever scenario you hear it in, it is highly colored.
Ps: I have heard the overture on devore orangutans and have heard many others sets and push pulls on it. I also mentioned which I had not heard
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I have heard the Ongaku (newer version), Gaku Oh (PSET and Push pull) and GakuOn (predecessor of Kagura) at Black Forest Audio in Germany extensively on appropriate speakers (Fertin single drivers with big Onken box subs) driven by M100 preamp and the top DAC (thought it was M100 DAC but could be wrong)....this was many years ago but the sound was sublime.
On more standard speakers (Audioplan Konzert II speakers about 90db) the GakuOhs did sound a bit lacking in dynamics, whereas the New Audio Frontiers 845 reference monos with NAF preamp sounded amazing. Good amps NAF...
why not partially active speakers. this way the Kondo can play to its strengths to the full when it doesn't have to struggle with the bass
I'm not sure about being less obtrusive. The CP has exactly the same frame (250lbs), and the same size horn, but the two 12" do make the CM look a bit less imposing I guess. The key for me is that the CM retains the 99db efficiency, where when you go to the next model down, the Aura, which is a really nice speaker in it's own way, you go down to 94dbish which takes a lot of the low powered SET's (A3) somewhat out of the equation.
I feel guilty again about the Kondo Munich rooms the last few years. I introduced Kondo to Kaiser, I think back in 2016. I had played the Kagura on the Kaiser Kawero but in a small room. I really liked it. Sold three Kawero/Kagura systems at the time and the customers still have the and love the combination. Colored to many I guess, beautiful sound to others.
Then because of availably of rooms at Munich for 2018/2019 Kondo/Kaiser took half of the available GIANT MBL room. The room that Kondo/Kaiser had to me was a beautiful room, BUT way too large for the Kondo amps driving the Kaisers. I would say that a lot of people still liked those rooms and even stood up and applauded after certain tracks were played.
Surely not your cup of tea Ked, but there were a lot of people that really liked the sound in that room. Me, I thought the Kaisers were under driven.
I think people go to Munich and like the room they want to like. Kondo people like the kondo room, Magico people like Magico set ups, and Lampi people like the Lampi room even when it doesn't sound good. I think people who claim these rooms sound good do an injustice to the brand they like. Instead of saying it is non representative of the actual sound.
I see kondo like koetsu. It's jewelry, it has history, a track record for distribution and service, and people are willing to pay up to feel satisfied
For me they are sonically they are not right. That said, I asked the OP what his audition tracks were, and he replied Diana Krall and jazz at the pawnshop, and Judas priest. For this music it is what he likes, there is no other truth
I see kondo like koetsu. It's jewelry, it has history, a track record for distribution and service, and people are willing to pay up to feel satisfied
For me they are sonically they are not right. That said, I asked the OP what his audition tracks were, and he replied Diana Krall and jazz at the pawnshop, and Judas priest. For this music it is what he likes, there is no other truth
Yup, that's your take on it all. I respect it with all of your experience. But I also know a lot of the people personally that enjoy listening to the music that they like to listen to that have Kondo systems and they are very happy listeners/owners. Even if you perceive them as not knowing right from wrong etc. It all is what it is in a very subjective equation.
In my opinion, this is exactly the correct approach.
But you do not act accordingly yourself but judge based on audio show demonstrations ... at least that is my impression so far.
Please explain. You already made an incorrect point on my experience at Rhapsody which I explained above. What else?
....
Here you have compared the Kondo - with an unsuitable speaker - against another amp to which the speaker fits!
