Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

[mtemur]

That’s exactly why I can’t decide yet on the WVL, the WVL only sounded perfect with bi amplification/more power than Ongaku alone. Both Diesis Roma Triode and WVL Berlin are below 100 db sensitivity, as demonstrated over and over again by myself I believe anything below 100db will still be affected greatly by amp power and Ongaku alone doesn’t have that grunt, naturally Absolare with its 52 watt will drive Diesis Roma Triode better compared to Ongaku at 26 watt because Diesis Roma Triode is ‘only’ 98.5 db sensitive, wondering if the same test would be conducted between Absolare vs Kagura with comparable watt between the two. The same happened to the WVL Berlin when I auditioned it, due to drive power factor if I have to pick one amp only to drive the WVL Berlin I would’ve picked ATM-2211 or Kondo Overture against Kondo Ongaku despite the clear superiority of Ongaku’s sound quality. I don’t think the same rules applies to Avantgarde due to its 107 db sensitivity hence my consideration for AA Trio LE 26, unfortunately there is no way I can audition AA Trio LE 26 in the country. I can audition the old Trio and Duo Mezzo in a friend’s house but that will require coordinated effort and I just do not have the time nor energy right now due to family emergency.

Well I’m very familiar with ongaku and overture. I listened ongaku with different setups through the years. It’s a very powerful amplifier. Don’t let it’s rated 27watts confuse you.

I actually listened ongaku, overture and air tight atm-211s on same setup with 92 dB speakers. I can say that both ongaku and overture have great power and drive. Air tight atm-211s are not even close to kondo amps in any way. Overture has a bit more drive due to push pull design but overall ongaku is much better. I did listen absolare monos (845 amps) too but not in the same system. it’s a fine amplifier but no on par with kondo.

-If you want to have absolare then I recommend hybrid monos which I listened a couple of times and liked more than 845 monos.

-If you want to have air tight and grunt then go for atm-3211 monos which I like a lot everytime I listen.

-if you want 845 and grunt then go for New Audio Frontiers. It’s a very powerful amplifier.

-if you want silky smoothness and magical midrange but no drive then go for audio note UK ongaku. Not my type but one of the best tube amps in the world.

-I did listen kaguras and yes they’re more powerful then ongaku but ongaku has enough power for any speaker over 95dB sensitivity even low impedance not tube friendly ones. All it needs a very good AC electric setup, NOS 211 tubes and right biasing like all amplifiers. Then it sounds silky smooth with extraordinary dynamics without listening fatigue. If you want to hear ongaku at it’s best you need to add a kondo preamplifier.

 

[Uwiik]

Give the Odeon Carnegie a listen.

Not possible here

 

[howiebrou]

Well I’m very familiar with ongaku and overture. I listened ongaku with different setups through the years. It’s a very powerful amplifier. Don’t let it’s rated 27watts confuse you.

I actually listened ongaku, overture and air tight atm-211s on same setup with 92 dB speakers. I can say that both ongaku and overture have great power and drive. Air tight atm-211s are not even close to kondo amps in any way. Overture has a bit more drive due to push pull design but overall ongaku is much better. I did listen absolare monos (845 amps) too but not in the same system. it’s a fine amplifier but no on par with kondo.

-If you want to have absolare then I recommend hybrid monos which I listened a couple of times and liked more than 845 monos.

-If you want to have air tight and grunt then go for atm-3211 monos which I like a lot everytime I listen.

-if you want 845 and grunt then go for New Audio Frontiers. It’s a very powerful amplifier.

-if you want silky smoothness and magical midrange but no drive then go for audio note UK ongaku. Not my type but one of the best tube amps in the world.

-I did listen kaguras and yes they’re more powerful then ongaku but ongaku has enough power for any speaker over 95dB sensitivity even low impedance not tube friendly ones. All it needs a very good AC electric setup, NOS 211 tubes and right biasing like all amplifiers. Then it sounds silky smooth with extraordinary dynamics without listening fatigue. If you want to hear ongaku at it’s best you need to add a kondo preamplifier.

I agree 1000% on needing a preamp with an Ongaku.

 

[Uwiik]

Well I’m very familiar with ongaku and overture. I listened ongaku with different setups through the years. It’s a very powerful amplifier. Don’t let it’s rated 27watts confuse you.

I actually listened ongaku, overture and air tight atm-211s on same setup with 92 dB speakers. I can say that both ongaku and overture have great power and drive. Air tight atm-211s are not even close to kondo amps in any way. Overture has a bit more drive due to push pull design but overall ongaku is much better. I did listen absolare monos (845 amps) too but not in the same system. it’s a fine amplifier but no on par with kondo.

-If you want to have absolare then I recommend hybrid monos which I listened a couple of times and liked more than 845 monos.

-If you want to have air tight and grunt then go for atm-3211 monos which I like a lot everytime I listen.

-if you want 845 and grunt then go for New Audio Frontiers. It’s a very powerful amplifier.

-if you want silky smoothness and magical midrange but no drive then go for audio note UK ongaku. Not my type but one of the best tube amps in the world.

-I did listen kaguras and yes they’re more powerful then ongaku but ongaku has enough power for any speaker over 95dB sensitivity even low impedance not tube friendly ones. All it needs a very good AC electric setup, NOS 211 tubes and right biasing like all amplifiers. Then it sounds silky smooth with extraordinary dynamics without listening fatigue. If you want to hear ongaku at it’s best you need to add a kondo preamplifier.

I do run Kondo G70 pre amp with the Ongaku. I really like the Ongaku and don’t plan to change, adding Overture for bi amping is a possibility but switching the Ongaku to something else is not part of the plan.

 

[bonzo75]

The kondo is highly colored compared to the airtight. The overture is just a poor amp. The ongaku and kagura are among the most overpriced things in hifi.

For 211 you will not get full benefits unless you roll NOS tubes, of which Amperex is Supreme and almost impossible to source. WE 242c and national union I haven't heard bit difficult to get. GE and RCA are better than current production tubes but not game changers like Amperex.

There are many better amps at various prices in triode amps, with better tubes. Or just ask some locally known designer to make you one

 

[assessor43]

I bet that, if I didn't say "Diesis Roma" and said just "OB speaker" you wouldn't have replied. Very predictable behavior. It is what it is, OB speakers require higher qts driver, and as such, lower sensitivity to compensate for the lack of baffle.

I don't doubt that people are pleased wth the OB+Kondo setup...but what's their background....B&W+Mcintosh (at best)? That doesn't count as High End. I'm talking about "optimal", not about "good for someone's taste and needs a subwoofer because amp underdrives it".

What?

 

[gian60]

For me Kondo are the best tube and much better than air tight but i like only ANJ or Kondo with 2A3 and Ongaku,i dont like a lot Gakuon,Kagura and Gakuho with 300B
Are overpriced but i can find new a very good price,could be some will sound better but they have big charme and can sell well

 

[bonzo75]

For me Kondo are the best tube and much better than air tight but i like only ANJ or Kondo with 2A3 and Ongaku,i dont like a lot Gakuon,Kagura and Gakuho with 300B
Are overpriced but i can find new a very good price,could be some will sound better but they have big charme and can sell well

Yes but you are comparing 2a3 to airtight 211.

Like you said the ongaku and kagura and gakuon are not good

 

[gian60]

I said Ongaku is very very good and i like a lot.
I had 2 times

Are amp with double 211 for channel i dont like

 

[mtemur]

The kondo is highly colored compared to the airtight. The overture is just a poor amp. The ongaku and kagura are among the most overpriced things in hifi.

It’s exactly the opposite. Kondo is one of the uncolored brands around. How many companies can you name making everything from same annealed silver from cartridge coils to cables, capacitors, transformers, connectors etc basically everything except speakers? That’s a bold move cause if any frequency is exaggerated in that silver material they’re using it will be highly amplified because of using it almost everywhere. They may be overpriced but believe me they’re all very powerful and great amplifiers.

People always say how their equipment is great and how poor Kondo equipment is to Kondo owners. That’s what I have witnessed through the years but you know what! after a while you find out those audiophiles changed their equipment but Kondo owners are still keeping theirs.

I like Air Tight amplifiers but unfortunately they’re not even close to Kondo. That’s the politest comment I can make.

For 211 you will not get full benefits unless you roll NOS tubes, of which Amperex is Supreme and almost impossible to source. WE 242c and national union I haven't heard bit difficult to get. GE and RCA are better than current production tubes but not game changers like Amperex.

If you have a 211 amplifier, inevitably you’ll listen it with NOS tubes. That’s one of the main causes of having a 211 tube amplifier and not the 845. Use it with NOS tubes and if possible get United Electronics 211s.

There are many better amps at various prices in triode amps, with better tubes. Or just ask some locally known designer to make you one

I did listen some custom build amps. Best ones for my taste are Komuro amplifiers. If you’re into tube amps I’m sure you heard Nori Komuro.
one amp using 212 and other one using 845 tubes. Both are mono blocks, 212 in SET, 845 in push pull configuration. But I still prefer Kondo amps.

 

[Music and Wine]

Hello

I agree,use the Ongaku with a good fast preamp and be prepared to a completely different experience.This wakes up the amp.I used my Ongaku with relative normal efficiency speaker 90db and rated 8 ohm and it was more than enough,but it all relative,all depends how big your room is ,how load you listen.

Yes,Ongaku are very expensive,but I would never sell mine,even if I hardly use it anymore.The rated 27 watts is very very optimistic,on a very good day 19 watts,that is at 3% thd.The output stage could give you maybe 24 watts but the driver stage just can’t provide the power to drive the grids deep into class A2( grid positive). A single 5687 as a cathode follower is way too small for that.

It is more important too look at a stabe impedance than pure sensitivity,Great would be 92-95 db with very stable impedance,not lower than 6 ohms and no difficult electrical phase angles.

please remember,the watts of a single ended tube amp always sound much morepowerful.I am now running a 48 watt,single ended 212 amp,that I build myself.It sound way stronger and powerful than my Accuphase A250 class A monoblocks .Also never underestimate,if you got very little noise at 90db on normal speakers with 95 db speakers that noise is very disturbing.That is why I use DC on my heaters On my 212 amp.I am also looking for high sensitivity speakers,but also don’t want to spend too much but also I don’t want them to be as big as a removal truck .

I is very difficult nowadays to listen to the right speakers, many people are just very reluctant since Corona.

keep us informed,will be very interesting

 

[Verdier]

Ongaku with a good fast preamp

which for example?

 

[Music and Wine]

Hello Verdier

I am using it with my LTA zotl 3 reference preamp,it is very fast and sounds great and as a bonus got a super headphone output.

 

[DasguteOhr]

If you can build it yourself, building it ,its from a big name in the audioworld sounds ok.i do some modification.
If want it write me. Deleted otherwise I'll get in trouble

 

[calloway]

Uwiik....I have a superb SET mono block and drive Tidal Audio ' Contriva Diacer _SE speakers.and the sound is superb.My SET amps are on par with your Audio Note amps.The Tidal speakers are easily driven by my amps.If you haven't already decided on speakers yet I would certainly give the Tidal speakers a look.

 

[Uwiik]

Some people like Accuphase some people like Luxman, some people like Kondo some people like AirTight, some people are colored some people are white… it’s normal, that’s the beauty of the world everyone’s different, otherwise there will only be one tube audio brand and one SS audio brand in the world. I don’t think Kondo is absolute rubbish, quite the contrary IMO Kondo is the first tube audio that surprised me with all the charm of tubes but with the energy of SS in one.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Some people like Accuphase some people like Luxman, some people like Kondo some people like AirTight, some people are colored some people are white… it’s normal, that’s the beauty of the world everyone’s different, otherwise there will only be one tube audio brand and one SS audio brand in the world. I don’t think Kondo is absolute rubbish, quite the contrary IMO Kondo is the first tube audio that surprised me with all the charm of tubes but with the energy of SS in one.

Agree with you.

 

[Uwiik]

It’s exactly the opposite. Kondo is one of the uncolored brands around. How many companies can you name making everything from same annealed silver from cartridge coils to cables, capacitors, transformers, connectors etc basically everything except speakers? That’s a bold move cause if any frequency is exaggerated in that silver material they’re using it will be highly amplified because of using it almost everywhere. They may be overpriced but believe me they’re all very powerful and great amplifiers.

People always say how their equipment is great and how poor Kondo equipment is to Kondo owners. That’s what I have witnessed through the years but you know what! after a while you find out those audiophiles changed their equipment but Kondo owners are still keeping theirs.

I like Air Tight amplifiers but unfortunately they’re not even close to Kondo. That’s the politest comment I can make.


If you have a 211 amplifier, inevitably you’ll listen it with NOS tubes. That’s one of the main causes of having a 211 tube amplifier and not the 845. Use it with NOS tubes and if possible get United Electronics 211s.


I did listen some custom build amps. Best ones for my taste are Komuro amplifiers. If you’re into tube amps I’m sure you heard Nori Komuro.
one amp using 212 and other one using 845 tubes. Both are mono blocks, 212 in SET, 845 in push pull configuration. But I still prefer Kondo amps.

Totally agree, please call me Kondo fanboys but Ongaku stayed with the same design since 1989 and able to keep price high and demand equally high until today, there must be something right there, cannot be on reputation alone. Please point another manufacturer who can do the same with the same presence/famous in the market, staying relevant until today by relying on the same design from the good ole’ days.

 

[Uwiik]

which for example?

Kondo’s own G70….. insanely fast and powerful pre amp. Did head to head comparison versus FM Acoustic Reference preamp, Pilium pre amp and Airtight pre amp combined with Ongaku OR ATM-2211 OR Overture Power Amplifier…… NOT even a fair comparison, Kondo G70 is miles ahead BETTER (At least with the provided electronics mentioned above), not only me said that but 4 other guys who happened to be in the room also said the same thing.

 

[Uwiik]

Uwiik....I have a superb SET mono block and drive Tidal Audio ' Contriva Diacer _SE speakers.and the sound is superb.My SET amps are on par with your Audio Note amps.The Tidal speakers are easily driven by my amps.If you haven't already decided on speakers yet I would certainly give the Tidal speakers a look.

Thanks for the suggestion but I am set on horns after listening to the WVL Berlin. Had a brief experience with Tidal speakers, very good but not my cup of tea. I don’t know about other horn brands but what I heard last time during the audition with the Berlin was not something that I can forget easily. The lifelike and the jump factor was really something, all without any ’horny’/cupped hands coloration, the bass from the FC OB 6 pcs of 38 cm woofers was insanely fast with beat that can shake my chest, everything was life like I thought I was in life concert and I thought there were a guitar and fingers plucking it close to where I was sitting. The integration was perfect, low mid high are seamless, there were no integration issue even when bi amped, we solved coherency issue when bi amping in less than 1 minute turning a dial, it was stupid simple. Me likey horn speakers methink, now just have to decide with the very limited options I have here.