Speakers for Kondo Ongaku... Please Help

[Uwiik]

I'm very eager to hear the BERLIN here in the States and have high expectations for this loudspeaker. Thanks for sharing your experiences!

It’s very very good, the built quality is typical old school Germany, very thick and solid, the sound is heavenly provided its driven by SET. ”Quality” oozes out when you assemble the speakers, the Klangfilm type drivers are very very solid and super heavy. Funny I have seen this speaker regularly at my dealer but I never pay attention until they put SET on it.

 

[Solypsa]

If you don't mind asking I would be curious what the low frequency cut off is for the midrange horn

 

[Uwiik]

If you don't mind asking I would be curious what the low frequency cut off is for the midrange horn

Off course I don’t mind asking. Will do it now sir!

 

[Uwiik]

Got a

Off course I don’t mind asking. Will do it now sir!

quick reply. No idea but he will ask factory. I’ll update.

 

[Uwiik]

Everything was heavenly this morning, even my wife said she could hear all the energy and details without the music playing loud. There is definitely ZERO horn-y/cupped hands sound, vocals are as natural as it can get, saxophone is phenomenal, I wouldn’t be able to tell the speakers are horn except for the realism, low volume energy and the slam…. I really like this speaker. There is one problem though, It seems like that in order to perfect the bass I would definitely need to empty the space inbetween the speakers. I also prefer to have my equipments close to where I am sitting anyway due to the annoying no remote control, this will require a pair of extra long RCA, like 10 M or slightly less to connect between pre amp to power amp. I have checked price for Siltech and price for 10 M RCAcame up at retail $180K Crown, $215K Double Crown, and finally $280K Triple Crown….. SHOCKING!!! I can upgrade the entire system again with that money…LOL!!

What high end 10m long RCA would you guys recommend at $20-40k range?

 

[Verdier]

Kuro.

 

[bonzo75]

the Klangfilm type drivers

why are these klangfilm type? WVL used to make his field coils based on altec before.

Also, in an earlier post, you had mentioned they have open baffle field coil bass?

 

[morricab]

Everything was heavenly this morning, even my wife said she could hear all the energy and details without the music playing loud. There is definitely ZERO horn-y/cupped hands sound, vocals are as natural as it can get, saxophone is phenomenal, I wouldn’t be able to tell the speakers are horn except for the realism, low volume energy and the slam…. I really like this speaker. There is one problem though, It seems like that in order to perfect the bass I would definitely need to empty the space inbetween the speakers. I also prefer to have my equipments close to where I am sitting anyway due to the annoying no remote control, this will require a pair of extra long RCA, like 10 M or slightly less to connect between pre amp to power amp. I have checked price for Siltech and price for 10 M RCAcame up at retail $180K Crown, $215K Double Crown, and finally $280K Triple Crown….. SHOCKING!!! I can upgrade the entire system again with that money…LOL!!

What high end 10m long RCA would you guys recommend at $20-40k range?

The bass is dipole, right? Back when I had mltuple planar speakers (Apogee, AudioStatic, Acoustat, Stax etc.) I had them 1-1.2 meters out from the wall and then I got very good bass. What distance do you have these at?

 

[morricab]

Everything was heavenly this morning, even my wife said she could hear all the energy and details without the music playing loud. There is definitely ZERO horn-y/cupped hands sound, vocals are as natural as it can get, saxophone is phenomenal, I wouldn’t be able to tell the speakers are horn except for the realism, low volume energy and the slam…. I really like this speaker. There is one problem though, It seems like that in order to perfect the bass I would definitely need to empty the space inbetween the speakers. I also prefer to have my equipments close to where I am sitting anyway due to the annoying no remote control, this will require a pair of extra long RCA, like 10 M or slightly less to connect between pre amp to power amp. I have checked price for Siltech and price for 10 M RCAcame up at retail $180K Crown, $215K Double Crown, and finally $280K Triple Crown….. SHOCKING!!! I can upgrade the entire system again with that money…LOL!!

What high end 10m long RCA would you guys recommend at $20-40k range?

Also, if the bass is field coil, you can alter the driver damping with the voltage. Somewhat of underdamped should be better for a fuller bass...

 

[christoph]

There is one problem though, It seems like that in order to perfect the bass I would definitely need to empty the space inbetween the speakers.

I would predict that emptying the space between the speakers won't help a bit with the bass.

Because the bass is dipole, you "only" need to pull the speakers further out into the room.
Between around 1 and 1.5 meters should be the sweet spot where the bass sounds best with dipole bass.

 

[Uwiik]

why are these klangfilm type? WVL used to make his field coils based on altec before.

Also, in an earlier post, you had mentioned they have open baffle field coil bass?

I got the information from their German article that I translated to English mentioning their design is based on Klangfilm, I’ll try to find the link again. Yes on the open baffle FC bass as you can see from the assembly pictures.

 

[Uwiik]

Thay

The bass is dipole, right? Back when I had mltuple planar speakers (Apogee, AudioStatic, Acoustat, Stax etc.) I had them 1-1.2 meters out from the wall and then I got very good bass. What distance do you have these

We had the distance about 50 cm from the wall, the setup guy insisted that it’s not too close and keep on switching cables around (my own collection), I have to say I heard a lot of improvement but still not the chest thumping bass I expected to get. I then insisted to move the speaker to 1 m from the wall and give a very slight toe in and…….. *DISCOTHEQUE* DISCO….DISCO…..!!!! I got all the chest thumping awesome bass I want! It was a revelation

 

[Uwiik]

Also, if the bass is field coil, you can alter the driver damping with the voltage. Somewhat of underdamped should be better for a fuller bass...

thanks so much for the pointer. Will try that on next tweak, I haven’t even read the manual…LOL

 

[Uwiik]

I would predict that emptying the space between the speakers won't help a bit with the bass.

Because the bass is dipole, you "only" need to pull the speakers further out into the room.
Between around 1 and 1.5 meters should be the sweet spot where the bass sounds best with dipole bass.

Thanks for the pointer, I also realized that emptying tha space between the speakers will cost me an arm and leg, not too happy about that too

 

[Uwiik]

Moving the speakers to about 1m from the wall gave me the biggest boost of bass



switching the Siltech King SC to Goebel was the second biggest improvement for bass. It’s funny how system reacts differently even with identical cable, I was sure on my last audition that the Siltech King was equal to Goebel, today proved to be otherwise, Goebel won hands down.

 

[Uwiik]

On biamp configuration with Kondo Overture for the Woofers and Ongaku for mid and high. This eliminated all strain and any sign of distortion on the louder/higher tones, sounds very very nice, fast and muscular




on bi amp configuration with Air Tight ATM-2211 for the woofers and Ongaku for mid-high. Even better than biamp with Overture, most notably on bass and musicality. Not as fast and open like all Kondo though but still insanely good, smooth and very musical and overall still better than biamp with Overture

 

[gestalt]

If you're searching for nice pairings, try to audition Lamm Industries. I really enjoy the ML2.2 on WVL. The ML3 I expect would be even better but I haven't heard it on WVL to comment.

 

[DasguteOhr]

View attachment 84467
On biamp configuration with Kondo Overture for the Woofers and Ongaku for mid and high. This eliminated all strain and any sign of distortion on the louder/higher tones, sounds very very nice, fast and muscular



View attachment 84468
non bi amp configuration with Air Tight ATM-2211 for the woofers and Ongaku for mid-high. Even better than biamp with Overture, most notably on bass and musicality. Not as fast and open like all Kondo though but still insanely good, smooth and very musical and overall still better tha biamp with Overture

normal an el34 pushpull sounds cleaner and tighter, much less below 1% THD than a set amp. good choice.

 

[Uwiik]

If you're searching for nice pairings, try to audition Lamm Industries. I really enjoy the ML2.2 on WVL. The ML3 I expect would be even better but I haven't heard it on WVL to comment.

I must have power with volume control, otherwise the biamp won’t work. Both the Overture and ATM2211 has it.

 

[Uwiik]

normal an el34 pushpull sounds cleaner and tighter, much less below 1% THD than a set amp. good choice.

Yes and the combination with Overture is still retaining Kondo character faithfully. The combo with ATM-2211 although very very nice / nicer than with Overture, I think sounded a bit tubey And doesn’t sound like Kondo anymore.