Todd's AG Trio G3 System -- it's about time

[Uwiik]

What a fantastic option to be considering! Let me weigh in (not on intimate knowledge of the AG Trio + Basshorn though I have heard the latest flagship), but more based on my own experience/views on going for a system.

From your own description, you love the sound, and you cannot afford the bass horn 'right now'. This means to me if you could do it now, there is a good chance you would...and it also appears it is well within the realm of the possible that you will be able to.

You can probably tell from my own read here that I am going to suggest you commit to building towards this dream system. Go for the iTron and get the basshorns as soon as you are ready. I am betting you wont regret it in the medium or even long term. From my own personal experience, being patient and building a system even sometimes piecemeal has been well worth it in the end. One of my more extreme examples was using a $50 Daewood DVD players for years until getting the Zanden digital because I knew what I wanted, and I did not wish to spend lots of interim money on incremental steps. But 15 years later, and I have never regretted it.

One man's view. Enjoy.

I could trade in my Kondo Ongaku for the Itron and my WVL Berlin for the G3 speakers, but that will mean I am abandoning tube amplification on my fully maxed Ongaku, I don’t know what I am going to do with my tubes collection….There is no way I can comfortably afford the G3 without me making some concession with my current system and I don’t like putting too much effort on money for audio, been there and wasn’t pretty.

My current system is already fantastic as it is but this G3 is just another league altogether even when compared to my WVL Berlin… When I bought my WVL Berlin I knew already at the corner of my mind that I might want more down the road, but when I auditioned the G3+basshorns I got a feeling that this might actually be my endgame…

I am strongly considering buying the G3 first without basshorns right now…. In fact, I am going to the dealer in about an hour time, he is setting up the G3 combined with the rest of my gears (Taiko, Pilium DAC, Kondo G70 pre) in his showroom for me to hear.

 

[Uwiik]

Get the Basshorns - and an upright piano!

I am negotiating with my wife to downgrade her new piano to Boston instead of Steinway… I think this might work hahahhahaha

 

[Uwiik]

Hello Uwiik,

I looked at your system profile. Are you still using the Franco Serblin speakers with Jadis? I did not see any subwoofers listed in your profile. Is this correct?

I ask these question for a couple reasons. Perhaps you thought the bass was the most impressive since it is 4 12" woofer in those spacehorns and you aren't used to that with the Franco Serblin speakers.

The main trio only goes down to about 100Hz. So you will have to have something picking up the bass. Some have used REL subwoofers for this. Whatever you use it is going to have to be good and fast or the sound is going to be disjointed. One options that is really no cheaper since you have to add a good amp, cables and a crossover and that is the PureLow panels could be used instead of the spacehorns. I think there are two reasons for the Purelow option. 1. They consume much less space and 2. they go down to 10Hz. (The spacehorns roll off at 35Hz). There is also the single driver spacehorn option as well. It is about 2/3 the cost of the dual spacehorn. It depends on how big your room is. Unless you have a very large room a pair of single dirver spacehorns is going to produce "enough" bass. The nice thing is that you could come back at a later date and still add another pair of singles or a pair of dual spacehorns.

You could also use your Jadis amp and get the passive crossover option. The passive crossover is about $5K whereas the iTron is about $40K. You can add the iTron amp at any time in the future.

So, The least expensive way to get into a pair of Trios is to get the Trio with a passive crossover and use a Pair of REL (Or other) subwoofers.

Have you considered the Duo GT? With the iTron amp it is in the $70K range. The reason I mention this option is it depends on your long term intention. If you intend on getting a pair of spacehorns, say next year, and upgrading to the iTron in a year or two then get the Trios. But if you are thinking I probably won't ever be able to get the spacehornt then I think the Duo GT is going to beat the passive trios with REL subs. But that is just my opinion and I have not heard them side by side to validate tthis conjecture.

One other note that just popped in my head on the Duo GT's. With the Duo's you don't have to worry about trying to integrate a pair of woofers crossing over in the 100Hz range. This is no trivial task.

Hi @sbnx

Please forgive me for not updating my profile for way too long thus causing confusion and wasting your time. The Jadis and Ktema are long long gone since I can’t remember when. Now I am running Taiko for digital, Kuzma XL DC for analog, Pilium Divine for DAC, Kondo G70 pre and Kondo Ongaku power powering a pair of Wolf Von Langa Berlin FC speakers…I love my setup but I don’t think mine is endgame, in fact I haven’t heard a system that I would call endgame until a few days ago when I heard the G3 + BH, that there what I heard was definitely endgame in my book….

So my proposition is very simple, to buy or not to buy but no Basshorns for at least one more year. I wouldn’t buy any other bass unit until I can afford a pair of dual driver basshorns. I considered Duo GT before but the dealer doesn’t have one on stock to demo and from price point Duo GT would be a downgrade from my current WVL Berlin

I am going to the dealer in about an hour time, he picked all of my gears two days ago to setup with the G3 in his showroom for me to hear, I will ask him to run the Trio G3 without the basshorns and see how I like it.

Will keep you posted and thanks so much for the long and detailed explanations. Much appreciated

 

[bonzo75]

Hi @sbnx

Please forgive me for not updating my profile for way too long thus causing confusion and wasting your time. The Jadis and Ktema are long long gone since I can’t remember when. Now I am running Taiko for digital, Kuzma XL DC for analog, Pilium Divine for DAC, Kondo G70 pre and Kondo Ongaku power powering a pair of Wolf Von Langa Berlin FC speakers…I love my setup but I don’t think mine is endgame, in fact I haven’t heard a system that I would call endgame until a few days ago when I heard the G3 + BH, that there what I heard was definitely endgame in my book….

So my proposition is very simple, to buy or not to buy but no Basshorns for at least one more year. I wouldn’t buy any other bass unit until I can afford a pair of dual driver basshorns. I considered Duo GT before but the dealer doesn’t have one on stock to demo and from price point Duo GT would be a downgrade from my current WVL Berlin

I am going to the dealer in about an hour time, he picked all of my gears two days ago to setup with the G3 in his showroom for me to hear, I will ask him to run the Trio G3 without the basshorns and see how I like it.

Will keep you posted and thanks so much for the long and detailed explanations. Much appreciated

this is a good decision. There is no point getting a trio without bass horns. And the duo is a downgrade from any speaker and should be avoided, there is no point getting a duo while waiting for trios with bass horns.

 

[Uwiik]

this is a good decision. There is no point getting a trio without bass horns. And the duo is a downgrade from any speaker and should be avoided, there is no point getting a duo while waiting for trios with bass horns.

Very well said

 

[Uwiik]

I have an awesome dealer…. He insisted that he wanted to setup my current WVL Berlin beside the Trio G3 first, so the comparison couldn’t be anymore direct…

 

[the sound of Tao]

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View attachment 116677

I have an awesome dealer…. He insisted that he wanted to setup my current WVL Berlin beside the Trio G3 first, so the comparison couldn’t be anymore direct…

Just a thought, maybe you could record some iPhone videos to help you review your thoughts later … and to share a glimpse into your experience. Either way very much looking forwards to how you find the comparison. Good luck with it all.

 

[LL21]

I could trade in my Kondo Ongaku for the Itron and my WVL Berlin for the G3 speakers, but that will mean I am abandoning tube amplification on my fully maxed Ongaku, I don’t know what I am going to do with my tubes collection….There is no way I can comfortably afford the G3 without me making some concession with my current system and I don’t like putting too much effort on money for audio, been there and wasn’t pretty.

My current system is already fantastic as it is but this G3 is just another league altogether even when compared to my WVL Berlin… When I bought my WVL Berlin I knew already at the corner of my mind that I might want more down the road, but when I auditioned the G3+basshorns I got a feeling that this might actually be my endgame…

I am strongly considering buying the G3 first without basshorns right now…. In fact, I am going to the dealer in about an hour time, he is setting up the G3 combined with the rest of my gears (Taiko, Pilium DAC, Kondo G70 pre) in his showroom for me to hear.

Hi Uwik,

Fantastic. Suggestion? Talk with your dealer. By any audiophile standard this is an enormous financial commitment. If you tell him what's on your mind and your 1-1.5 year plan (I imagine you will), he will believe and know you are serious and intend to buy the basshorns. Ask him for some help...maybe he allows you to utilize demo or 2nd hand subs temporarily on the agreement that if you trade them back in 1-1.5 years (same price), you can get the basshorns which you really want.

This sounds to me like a unique opportunity where you can strike a deal. Enjoy.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I am negotiating with my wife to downgrade her new piano to Boston instead of Steinway… I think this might work hahahhahaha

Show her a Casio keyboard...

 

[Uwiik]

Just a thought, maybe you could record some iPhone videos to help you review your thoughts later … and to share a glimpse into your experience. Either way very much looking forwards to how you find the comparison. Good luck with it all.

tried making iPhone video but it came out horrible, the floor is too hard and the room is too lively the video ended up incomprehensible. I ended up spending almost 5 hours there and off course one will always comes back more confused than before after a long audition.

As for comparison, there is no comparison the G3 is much more realistic, better staging and much better bass than the WVL it’s not even funny, WVL sounded better on the high but I guess the G3 tweeter wasn’t setup properly either so can’t really comment much on that. We didn’t spend too much time trying the WVL because I pretty much understand how it sounded with my gear and I want to spend my time more effectively.

Tried the G3 without the basshorns, surprisingly it sounded really great until things get low, then it sounded unacceptable, so G3 without any additional bass driver is a big no no for sure.

What is really interesting is how the Itron compares to Kondo Ongaku powering the G3…Initially I thought I was in audio nirvana with the Itron and wasn’t thinking about anything else and was about to jump the trigger putting my Ongaku towards the trade in until the dealer connected my Ongaku in place of Itron….That was something else altogether….I have owned my Ongaku for quite some times and even myself often wonders why it cost so much but today I finally realized why Ongaku cost that much….Some might disagree with me but in my opinion this is a cold hard truth like how the sun rises East and set on West, I think there is no comparison, Ongaku beats Itron by a million miles and even the dealer and a couple other people in the room agreed with me…..Bass is 100% more authoritative without overbearing, vocal is much more pin point and realistic, mid is oh so sweet without any tube coloration and there was at least 100% boost on staging too, staging was so wide if I close my eyes it extended beyond the side wall…

Now I am torn…..Running Ongaku with the G3 is an expensive proposition, I don’t get the trade in value going that way, yes I save a good chunk not buying the Itron module but trade in value of used Ongaku is still much more than the price of the Itron, new speaker cable is also a must due to the layout and to be totally honest I also am looking forward to a switch to solid state for the convenience but what I heard this afternoon is hard to forget, like I said before….now I understand why Ongaku cost as much as it cost...it sounded so heavenly it seriously made the Itron sounded inexpensive and everyone in the room agrees with me….I hope I am not offending anyone by saying Itron sounded inexpensive after listening to Ongaku powering the G3 and I am 100% sure the G3 is not setup properly yet but that was my experience on apple to apple comparison of Itron vs Ongaku powering the G3….

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think the Trio G3s can be amazing. It doesn't surprise me at all that you prefer the Ongaku. This is strictly very personal preference but I've always been baffled why the AG executives prefer solid-state electronics over SET on their tweeter horns and midrange horns.

A very close friend once came close to buying AG loudspeakers and I said I would not endorse the purchase unless he promised to buy Viva Auroras or lower power SET amplifiers. (If I owned Trio G3s I would be experimenting with very pure, very low power SET amplifiers starting with Thomas Mayer.

And Trios on solid-state all on a wood floor? I get a headache just thinking about it.

PS: Outdated design? If a tube amplifier sounds great to you who cares if its from the Middle Ages?

 

[LL21]

Congrats. Sounds like you know what you ultimately want. Now its about how to get there. The Ongaku is legendary it seems for good reason. No piece is perfect, but it comes with its own magic when in the right system...this one included it seems.

Are you able to spring for the main horns and deal with temporary cables/bass a year or so?

 

[LL21]

BTW, how did the treble sound on the Ongaku? My limited time with the new AG 3 actually honed in on the treble. The rest was exemplary in its own way, and I kind of mentally signed off on its flagship qualities in many of those areas. But the treble was a hiccup...one which I took to be manageable (just as you did)...but I was also not buying.

I do feel that the treble is probably super super finicky about setup and extremely sensitive to 'everything'...but ultimately very very good when done right. But I cannot say since we did not have that kind of time. Since you are buying, you may wish to double check that and just check that box.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I think the Trio G3s are amazing. But it doesn't surprise me at all that you prefer the Ongaku. This is strictly very personal preference but I've always been baffled why the AG executives prefer solid-state electronics over SET on their tweeter horns and midrange horns.

A friend once came close to buying AG loudspeakers and I said I would not endorse the purchase unless he promised to buy Viva Auroras or lower power SET amplifiers. If I had Trio G3s I would be trying very pure, very low power SET amplifiers, probably starting with Thomas Mayer.

AG on solid-state on an all-wood floor? I get a headache just thinking about it! If I remember correctly the AG factory demo room floor is wall-to-wall carpet.

PS: Outdated design? If you like the sound of a tube amplifier who cares if it was designed in the Middle Ages?

 

[adyc]

BTW, how did the treble sound on the Ongaku? My limited time with the new AG 3 actually honed in on the treble. The rest was exemplary in its own way, and I kind of mentally signed off on its flagship qualities in many of those areas. But the treble was a hiccup...one which I took to be manageable (just as you did)...but I was also not buying.

I do feel that the treble is probably super super finicky about setup and extremely sensitive to 'everything'...but ultimately very very good when done right. But I cannot say since we did not have that kind of time. Since you are buying, you may wish to double check that and just check that box.

Agree with you on the tweeter. I heard new G3 in a dealer showroom. The sound is incoherent. It can’t be the representative of G3 sound given the rave reviews. I conclude it is due to wrong or careless setup by the dealer.

 

[Uwiik]

Hi Uwik,

Fantastic. Suggestion? Talk with your dealer. By any audiophile standard this is an enormous financial commitment. If you tell him what's on your mind and your 1-1.5 year plan (I imagine you will), he will believe and know you are serious and intend to buy the basshorns. Ask him for some help...maybe he allows you to utilize demo or 2nd hand subs temporarily on the agreement that if you trade them back in 1-1.5 years (same price), you can get the basshorns which you really want.

This sounds to me like a unique opportunity where you can strike a deal. Enjoy.

Me and the dealer have a fantastic relationship. Bought big majority of my gears from him, I know he will do something for me….Additional bass unit for G3 is a definite must. I know I can’t afford the basshorns right now so I will just have to think about what I can do right now to at least make it sound acceptable before I can buy the basshorns. Realistically it’s gonna be 1-2 years down the road because right now I am going bankrupt everyday filling up and making nice this damn new house we moved into… Seriously considering to just buy my wife electronic Casio keyboard instead of GP just how @spiritofmusic kindly suggested…

 

[LL21]

Agree with you on the tweeter. I heard new G3 in a dealer showroom. The sound is incoherent. It can’t be the representative of G3 sound given the rave reviews. I conclude it is due to wrong or careless setup by the dealer.

Very interesting! I have now spoken/read about 3 out of 3 other people (ie, besides myself) who have heard the AG3 and made this same comment.

When I heard it, I immediately turned to the dealer and inquired. He acknowledged it and said this speaker is INCREDIBLY hard to set up super well, and given what I was hearing...I came away thinking I could believe it was hyper sensitive to everything given that its 'reflexes' at the micro level seemed extraordinary.

 

[LL21]

Me and the dealer have a fantastic relationship. Bought big majority of my gears from him, I know he will do something for me….Additional bass unit for G3 is a definite must. I know I can’t afford the basshorns right now so I will just have to think about what I can do right now to at least make it sound acceptable before I can buy the basshorns. Realistically it’s gonna be 1-2 years down the road because right now I am going bankrupt everyday filling up and making nice this damn new house we moved into… Seriously considering to just buy my wife electronic Casio keyboard for her instead of GP like @spiritofmusic kindly suggested…

balance...always the way. On the one hand, a year or 2 feels an eternity away...on the other hand, thinking about what you just heard (and I have a limited amount of experience with it)...it is true end-game sound. And then suddenly 1-2 years does not feel so long away when you could have this system for decades.

 

[the sound of Tao]

tried making iPhone video but it came out horrible, the floor is too hard and the room is too lively the video ended up incomprehensible. I ended up spending almost 5 hours there and off course one will always comes back more confused than before after a long audition.

As for comparison, there is no comparison the G3 is much more realistic, better staging and much better bass than the WVL it’s not even funny, WVL sounded better on the high but I guess the G3 tweeter wasn’t setup properly either so can’t really comment much on that. We didn’t spend too much time trying the WVL because I pretty much understand how it sounded with my gear and I want to spend my time more effectively.

Tried the G3 without the basshorns, surprisingly it sounded really great until things get low, then it sounded unacceptable, so G3 without any additional bass driver is a big no no for sure.

What is really interesting is how the Itron compares to Kondo Ongaku powering the G3…I thought I was in audio nirvana and wasn’t thinking about anything else and was about to jump the trigger putting my Ongaku towards the trade in until the dealer connected my Ongaku in place of Itron….That was something else altogether….I have owned my Ongaku for quite some times and even myself often wonders why it cost so much but today I finally realized why Ongaku cost that much….Some might disagree with me but in my opinion, I think there is no comparison, Ongaku beats Itron by a million miles and even the dealer and a couple other people in the room agreed with me…..Bass is 100% more authoritative without overbearing, vocal is much more pin point and realistic, mid is oh so sweet without any tube coloration and there was at least 100% boost on staging too, staging was so wide if I close my eyes it extended beyond the side wall…

Now I am torn…..Running Ongaku with the G3 is an expensive proposition, I don’t get the trade in value going that way, yes I save a good chunk not buying the Itron module but trade in value of used Ongaku is still much more than the price of the Itron, new speaker cable is also a must due to the layout and to be totally honest I also am looking forward to a switch to solid state for the convenience but what I heard this afternoon is hard to forget, like I said before….now I understand why Ongaku cost as much as it cost...it sounded so heavenly it seriously made the Itron sounded inexpensive and everyone in the room agrees with me….I hope I am not offending anyone by saying Itron sounded inexpensive after listening to Ongaku powering the G3 and I am 100% sure the G3 is not setup properly yet but that was my experience on apple to apple comparison of Itron vs Ongaku powering the G3….

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That’s great to hear your thoughts. Ongaku with G3 and bass horn strikes me completely as an end game move. I’m not really surprised that you found Ongaku is the better amp though I see how it would have been easier if it was in any way closer competition for you… some find solid state works fine for them with horns but I’ve only found complete magic for horns with SET. Patience is good, sounds worthwhile working towards the big move. Here’s hoping you end up with it all.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Me and the dealer have a fantastic relationship. Bought big majority of my gears from him, I know he will do something for me….Additional bass unit for G3 is a definite must. I know I can’t afford the basshorns right now so I will just have to think about what I can do right now to at least make it sound acceptable before I can buy the basshorns. Realistically it’s gonna be 1-2 years down the road because right now I am going bankrupt everyday filling up and making nice this damn new house we moved into… Seriously considering to just buy my wife electronic Casio keyboard instead of GP just how @spiritofmusic kindly suggested…

Hey, I'm full of good ideas. Get her this...

www.stylophone.com

She will love you forever AND you get Trios with Basshorns. I won't even charge you for my advice.