Bayz Audio Counterpoint 2.0 >>>>Rhapsody.Audio

[Rhapsody]

What sort of maximum spls can these speakers play at? Are they rugged enough to take a bit of abuse on the odd occasion or will they go pop? How long is the manufacturer guarantee and how easy are they to service if required?

I have not pushed my CP's past 100db peaks, but have done that many times with no issues.

The Courantes have been measured by Zoltan at Bayz with peaks at 116db at 3m and the Counterpoint 120db at 3M.

They don't go pop at loud volumes. But it is not recommended to play above 100db peaks, mainly for your ear protection.

The warranty is 5 years to the original purchaser.

Rhapsody has two US service centers in the US, one in Brooklyn and one in San Francisco. Of course it depends what type of issue one might encounter, depending on the issue service might be performed on site at the customer's location or at one of our service centers.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Y’all are really very funny… as soon as anyone says A is better, another post will come along to argue B is better. And why not D (Diesis) in the mix. The hardest part is having to choose only one if you’re looking for a new speaker for your own system — all are exceptional yet each has its own flavor, which will be right for someone but not quite right for another. There is no “perfect” speaker. As I have the good fortune of having all three at home I can say it is great fun to listen to one for, say 1 month, then swap it out for one of the others. At first I find myself doing the compare/contrast thing, then just relax and enjoy because I could easily live with any of the three. (Okay, in all honesty, I’ve only heard the smaller BAYZ but the large ones are due here in the next couple of weeks. I think the smaller pair more suited for a smaller room than my own. The BAYZ are certainly worthy contenders — with crazy-cool style too.)

May I ask a question Bob?

Which of the three- Bayz, Diesis, Alsyvox- would be most suitable for bass- driven electronica and hip hop, played at 95db with peaks at 100?
On paper they all look intriguing, although in truth i don't know their respective frequency responses or power handling, and of course the specs do only tell you so much
Thank you in advance
Gavin

 

[Rhapsody]

May I ask a question Bob?

Which of the three- Bayz, Diesis, Alsyvox- would be most suitable for bass- driven electronica and hip hop, played at 95db with peaks at 100?
On paper they all look intriguing, although in truth i don't know their respective frequency responses or power handling, and of course the specs do only tell you so much
Thank you in advance
Gavin

Hi Gavin, You were asking Bob West, but Bob East says......Alsyvox or Bayz would work great. I use subs with the Diesis as the woofers are tuned more to match the speed of the horn vs going low, but Alsyvox and Bayz would not require subs.

I would also add that if I were to be focused on bass-driven electonica at 100db levels I would look at other options vs any three of the mentioned speakers.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Thank you Bob East?

P'raps i should rephrase....I'm interested in dipoles or omnis that can play bass- driven electronica to 100db.
My current Focals manage it effortlessly...but they clearly aren't dipoles?

 

[Rhapsody]

Not sure about it myself. You might talk to Emile at Taiko who has the four panel Caravaggios. I would not be playing 100db electonica through my Botticelli X. I don't feel that is what the Botticelli X are about.

 

[Rhapsody]

I should add that I do not feel that the Bayz are the type of speaker for one that is interested in 100db electronica either. Lot's of other options out there that I would explore for this application. Not really sure what Omnis or Dipoles that I would pursue for this application . Good luck with your search!

 

[infinitely baffled]

Something may have been lost in translation.
This is the sort of thing i mean:

 

[Rhapsody]

Nothing lost in the translation. I’m just not a person to evaluate electronica at 100 DB pretty much with any speaker.

As a representative for Alsyvox and Bayz I do not recommend either speaker playing electronica at 100 DB. But that’s me, others might have different opinions.

btw both Alsyvox and Bays WILL play at 100 DB levels, but again I personally do not think that this is the intent of either speaker brand.

If it were me I would get cone driver speakers (15” woofers) and a six pack of subs for 100 DB electronics. Not Omni or dipoles. Of course ymmv.

 

[infinitely baffled]

Ftr i said i play at 95db, with peaks to 100
Snoottiness noted.
Thread unsubscribed
Thank you for your time.

 

[Bobvin]

Bob west chiming in very briefly… having all three speakers in-house now for a time, though the big Bayz Counterpoints for only a couple of weeks, I concur with what Bob.east says that the Alsyvox or Bayz would be better of the three but that (in my opinion) 95db with 100db peaks is pretty LOUD to listen too for any extended period of time will damage your hearing (e.g. rock concert @ 103db only safe for ~7 minutes without protection). Don’t get me wrong, if you like loud music I understand, certainly in my youth I played music LOUD. For me, now, 85-90db with the occasional peak to 100 is probably the upper range, steady 90+ db would be too much. Can Alsyvox or Bayz do it? Yeah, and it will sound great, but a steady diet of that, as Bob.east said, probably not the design goal of the speaker.

And a side note, your room better be solid because those volumes are going to greatly exacerbate room nodes, etc. Things go to hell quickly with increased volumes and the sound can become a real mess. Before my acoustic remodel my room sounded pretty good, until the volume went up. It was one of the primary factors in my choice to remodel the room sonically.

As a geeky engineer type, I’d love to see speaker manufacturers do “stress tests”, but it is a costly endeavor. Still, it might not tell you much to know a speaker played at 100 db steady for 1000 hrs without damage — it might sound like shit. That kind of testing would tax the amps too!

 

[Rhapsody]

Ftr i said i play at 95db, with peaks to 100
Snoottiness noted.
Thread unsubscribed
Thank you for your time.

IB,

Even though you have unsubscribed, if I was perceived by you as being "snooty" to you, I assure you, it was NOT my intent. I don't think it's my place to ever be "snooty" to anyone.

I was only trying to answer your question with the knowledge and experience that I have with the mentioned speakers.

I apologize if I came off as "snooty" to you. Again, it was not my intent.

 

[Zeotrope]

Ftr i said i play at 95db, with peaks to 100
Snoottiness noted.
Thread unsubscribed
Thank you for your time.

Chiming in - there was no snootiness here. You must be very sensitive. I think Bob answered your questions well and clearly.

One thing: if you play at 95db, your peaks are NOT going to be at 100 db. You need to add at least 20dB, probably closer to 30dB, above your average listening volume for peaks. As Art Dudley once measured, even sitting in row J in a symphony, you’re going to see peaks to 107 dB when average SPL is 85dB.

So if you are listening at 95 average (are you really? That will damage your hearing pretty quick!), then you should be planning for 115-120dB peaks (which is massively bad for your ears).

 

[infinitely baffled]

What we have here is a vivid illustration of the flaws, and indeed arrogance, that drives many US high end dealers and distributors into the 'middle aged, male pale and stale' category: Wholesale dismissal of entire genres of music as not being worthy, lectures about playing too loud, all indicative of the baby boomer rut constraining the high end market in the US.

However i take comfort in the likes of Boulder, Focal and Analogue Domain who are more than happy to cater to the young and young at heart, people who go to nightclubs, raves and festivals and want to be able to recreate that dynamic experience in the comfort of our homes.

 

[Rhapsody]

What we have here is a vivid illustration of the flaws, and indeed arrogance, that drives many US high end dealers and distributors into the 'middle aged, male pale and stale' category: Wholesale dismissal of entire genres of music as not being worthy, lectures about playing too loud, all indicative of the baby boomer rut constraining the high end market in the US.

However i take comfort in the likes of Boulder, Focal and Analogue Domain who are more than happy to cater to the young and young at heart, people who go to nightclubs, raves and festivals and want to be able to recreate that dynamic experience in the comfort of our homes.

IB, I never said that you should not play at 100db plus levels if that's what you choose to do.

What I said was that the speakers that you asked about were not the type of speaker that I would choose to play at 100db+ levels as they were not designed to recreate the experience that is created in nightclubs, raves etc.

I believe there are many other speakers that would meet those requirements, but that's just my opinion. If Focals do that for you that you already own, congrats you have already arrived.

I don't understand why you feel this is being arrogant???

 

[infinitely baffled]

I should add that I do not feel that the Bayz are the type of speaker for one that is interested in 100db electronica either. Lot's of other options out there that I would explore for this application. Not really sure what Omnis or Dipoles that I would pursue for this application . Good luck with your search!

You refer to '100db electronica' as if it is something out of the ordinary.
In the UK it's considered mainstream. The track i linked to is a widely recognised classic, but the combined response to it here was telling. As if the genre were a grubby object not worthy of consideration. Certainly not worthy of being played on the best systems.
That's raised my hackles.

(Btw i said 95db with 100db peaks. Morphing this to 100db feels unhelpful, as if you were trying to make a point. I don't run continuously at that, but sometimes nothing else will do. Like when i open my patio doors to let the music out to play in my amphitheatre )

My home was chosen because of it's remoteness, and as i remodelled it i took benefit of the croft- type bungalow design, complete with massive rubble walls nestled against a hill, to build a really inert structure.. From my arrival it was redesigned to handle massive quantities of sub bass energy, from half spaced floor timbers to internal aperture double glazing and sound proofed internal doors. The listening room has a concrete floor, with glass wall behind the speakers, so it is a 'difficult' environmental that gives no help to the speakers. This is another reason to specify a system capable of sustained high spl's, as in my experience dipoles can struggle in this room. I was forever replacing drive units on my Nolas. The Focals manage the room effortlessly. But i also have better amplification now.

However i miss the dipole - omni sound.

What has changed is that now i have a dialled-in subwoofer installation. I don't have to drive quite so hard to get the ultra low frequency weight and explosive dynamics i enjoy from the main speakers alone. So i am determined my next speakers will be dipoles or omnis.
I was looking forward to considering ehich of the three, Diesis, Bayz or Alsyvox would best suit my needs- my money was on the Bayz tbh- but the response felt insulting. My music is primitive. Why would someone listening to that want a state of the art system?

 

[adyc]

Have you considered MBL?

 

[Rhapsody]

Well it was not intended on being insulting. I was just trying to answer the question as to whether I though either Alsyvox or Bayz would suite your requirements.

I still don't think that either Bayz are Alsyvox are going to be happy with four V18's (which must sound incredible when matched with complimentary full range speakers), and playing at high SPLs.

Both Bayz Counterpoints and Alsyvox Caravaggios will play at 100-110db levels. Any good SS amps, including Pilium or Constellation which I represent will easily drive either of these speakers to this level.

If you off load the bass below say 50Hz with a crossover and give the V18's the bass duties then it might be the ticket.

Would I sell someone either Alsyvox or Bayz for this application without being able to try it out first? Probably not. Somehow I just don't think it's the right match, but I could be totally wrong.

Unless I am sure about something I won't say sure it will work. I have to live with it with the customer, once I say that.

Anyway, you can talk directly to Zoltan in Hungary or Daniele in Spain to see what they think. Being in the UK, we would not be working together anyway.

All the best with your quest!

 

[infinitely baffled]

So, to answer the various challenges, why a sota system?
because i include music that benefits from natural timbre and an open, spacious presentation, to match the authority in the bass

Why play loud?
Because some music requires it. Tracks like these need to be unleashed, not played:

 

[Rhapsody]

So, to answer the various challenges, why a sota system?
because i include music that benefits from natural timbre and an open, spacious presentation, to match the authority in the bass

Why play loud?
Because some music requires it. Tracks like these need to be unleashed, not played:

I lived with Trios/4BH's for 8 years, 20 years ago. I used to listen to K/D all the time, at 95db levels. Sounded amazing. I get it.

But I don't see the Alsyvox or Bayz being the right match for this type of playback. BUT if you integrate either of the speakers with a crossover and the four V18's then like I said, who knows. It might sound amazing.

4 panel Caravaggios would be interesting to hear. You should take a trip to visit Emile at Taiko and hear his four panel Caravaggios. Emile plays some heavy bass oriented tracks at high SPLs. He actually would be a good person to discuss this with.

 

[Lagonda]

You refer to '100db electronica' as if it is something out of the ordinary.
In the UK it's considered mainstream. The track i linked to is a widely recognised classic, but the combined response to it here was telling. As if the genre were a grubby object not worthy of consideration. Certainly not worthy of being played on the best systems.
That's raised my hackles.

(Btw i said 95db with 100db peaks. Morphing this to 100db feels unhelpful, as if you were trying to make a point. I don't run continuously at that, but sometimes nothing else will do. Like when i open my patio doors to let the music out to play in my amphitheatre )

My home was chosen because of it's remoteness, and as i remodelled it i took benefit of the croft- type bungalow design, complete with massive rubble walls nestled against a hill, to build a really inert structure.. From my arrival it was redesigned to handle massive quantities of sub bass energy, from half spaced floor timbers to internal aperture double glazing and sound proofed internal doors. The listening room has a concrete floor, with glass wall behind the speakers, so it is a 'difficult' environmental that gives no help to the speakers. This is another reason to specify a system capable of sustained high spl's, as in my experience dipoles can struggle in this room. I was forever replacing drive units on my Nolas. The Focals manage the room effortlessly. But i also have better amplification now.

However i miss the dipole - omni sound.

What has changed is that now i have a dialled-in subwoofer installation. I don't have to drive quite so hard to get the ultra low frequency weight and explosive dynamics i enjoy from the main speakers alone. So i am determined my next speakers will be dipoles or omnis.
I was looking forward to considering ehich of the three, Diesis, Bayz or Alsyvox would best suit my needs- my money was on the Bayz tbh- but the response felt insulting. My music is primitive. Why would someone listening to that want a state of the art system?

Find yourself a pair of Martin Logan Statement E2's, they will do electronica and audiophile approved music without breaking a sweat. I used to host after hours parties with Miami techno DJ's and club owner's attending, they where literally blown away by the sound. Large electrostatic panel, 16 7,5 inch open baffle mid-bass drivers, and 16 12 inch sub-bass drivers.