Best phono stage?

[tima]

Great thread.
Yet no mention yet of the phono stages on my list - audionet pam, Lamm (either), ypsilon vps100. Bummer.

What would you like to know about Lamm phonostages?

Here is my review of the LP2.1

Lamm Industries LP2.1 Deluxe Phono Preamplifier - Positive Feedback

Lamm Industries LP2.1 Deluxe Phono Preamplifier

positive-feedback.com

"Vladimir Lamm likes to say the perfect audio review consists of a single word that defines the component. Obviously I needed more than one. But if forced to pick one word to describe the LP2.1, my word is: believable.

Unassuming in appearance and straightforward in features, the Lamm LP2.1 evokes the natural sound of live acoustic music. Its capacity for tonal rightness and harmonic complexity makes it a standout performer. It is neutral in character while easily revealing differences in cartridges and performances. It doesn't try to draw attention to itself and it is not high-contrast hi-fi. This is a listener's component, a musician's component. It consistently drew me in to each performance."

You should be able to find one on the used market, but it remains popular so it may take persistent looking.

I own the LP1, a three box unit. It delivers the same natural sound as the LP2.1, only more. Excellent bass. More expensive.

 

[poonbean]

Thanks for the suggestion on the LP1 - that one would be high on my list were it not for the 3 boxes - making that kind of additional room is tough.

There's so many phono stages out there. After ever more reading - the ypsilon, thrax, and cs port phono pres are strong single box contenders.

It's a long shot, but hoping someone out there has experience with at least two of these on the same system and can provide comparisons of their presentations. FWIW, just heard from a dealer in the UK that ypsilon is changing over their entire product line and the vps100 is no more.

 

[Tangram]

@poonbeam you may wish considering a top flight MM phono pre paired with a SUT that matches your cartridge well, assuming you use a LOMC. In my experience that’s the ticket to vinyl nirvana.

 

[poonbean]

@poonbeam you may wish considering a top flight MM phono pre paired with a SUT that matches your cartridge well, assuming you use a LOMC. In my experience that’s the ticket to vinyl nirvana.

Yup - likely going with the ypsilon

 

[DasguteOhr]

if you come from the uk why not a tron nemesis phono. world class phono ok 2 boxes( heavy) but not a standard wide.

Nemesis RIAA Phono Stage - Tron Electric

Once in a lifetime something really special comes along which changes peoples perception of what is possible in terms of performance and quality. Enter the Nemesis! A valve phono amplifier all others will be judged against. RIAA Phono Amplifier It took 5 years to locate all the parts to build...

tron-electric.co.uk

 

[poonbean]

Thanks for the suggestion. Your Nemesis Phono sure looks impressive.
I'm in the USA. I don't see pricing anywhere, but it looks like it might outside my budget.

 

[poonbean]

More questions, but this one on loading.

I picked up an ypsilon MC10L, and seller said:

"a pair of WBT-0102ag connectors containing 12k resistors, which if plugged in to load inputs of the SUT would effectively change the ~470ohm load to ~100ohm with this transformer"​

Assuming the above statement is correct, as I was going to pick up some resisters resitors (100, 250, 600 ohm) to try as loading plugs, my test would have been way off. If someone could explain/provide the math equation behind the above - that somehow a loading plug of 12k on a transformer with 470ohm input creates 100ohm input, that would be much appreciated. And, insight on the loading plug would do on the output side, would also be useful to know.

Thanks!

 

[A-Line]

I currently use a EAR 324 solid state phono stage. I bought this in 2008 or 2009, I can't remember. Very versatile and it's solid state which I prefer over tube/hybrid tube design.

Looking for possibly the next step for me might be a FM Acoustics FM 223 Phono Master. Lots of versatility but at a higher point of resolution along with a much higher price tag too...

Typically FM Acoustics electronics sound best with other FM Acoustics electronics, cables, and speakers, at least to me.

Phono Linearizer FM 223

Discover the FM 223 │Phono Pre-Amplifier and Phono Linearizer with de-click and de-crackle technology for vinyl│FM Acoustics

www.fmacoustics.com

 

[Atmasphere]

More questions, but this one on loading.

I picked up an ypsilon MC10L, and seller said:

"a pair of WBT-0102ag connectors containing 12k resistors, which if plugged in to load inputs of the SUT would effectively change the ~470ohm load to ~100ohm with this transformer"​

Assuming the above statement is correct, as I was going to pick up some resisters resitors (100, 250, 600 ohm) to try as loading plugs, my test would have been way off. If someone could explain/provide the math equation behind the above - that somehow a loading plug of 12k on a transformer with 470ohm input creates 100ohm input, that would be much appreciated. And, insight on the loading plug would do on the output side, would also be useful to know.

Thanks!

The cartridge does not need a load. The SUT does. You want to keep it from ringing (distorting) but you don't want to roll it off. For that there's one resistor value that does the job and it varies from cartridge to cartridge since the transformer transforms impedance in both directions.

So it matters what SUT is in use and it matters what cartridge you have, such that the correct load resistance will put the transformer at 'critical damping'.

And this is why I really try to avoid transformers!

If they are in an application where the transformer is meant for a certain cartridge and phono section input (usually 47KOhms) then its plug and play.

But for any other application you have to know the impedance of the cartridge so you can place that impedance across the input of the transformer, run a low level square wave thru the transformer and then observe the output on an oscilloscope while you vary the output load. In this way you can see the ringing and thus reduce the load value until the ringing is gone, but without rounding the square wave. You then measure the load value and figure out what resistor value is needed in parallel with what is already in the preamp so the load value is satisfied.

Probably something best done by a technician with test equipment who has read the above procedure and understands it.

Obviously most people don't have access to this (actually, simple) test equipment and many don't know what I was even talking about in the paragraph above. But the chances of getting it right without the test equipment is remote; it will have a lot in common with playing with a tone control.

 

[Salectric]

More questions, but this one on loading.

I picked up an ypsilon MC10L, and seller said:

"a pair of WBT-0102ag connectors containing 12k resistors, which if plugged in to load inputs of the SUT would effectively change the ~470ohm load to ~100ohm with this transformer"​

Assuming the above statement is correct, as I was going to pick up some resisters resitors (100, 250, 600 ohm) to try as loading plugs, my test would have been way off. If someone could explain/provide the math equation behind the above - that somehow a loading plug of 12k on a transformer with 470ohm input creates 100ohm input, that would be much appreciated. And, insight on the loading plug would do on the output side, would also be useful to know.

Thanks!

I think the seller meant plugging the 12k resistors in on the output of the SUT, not the input of the SUT. The transformer ratio effectively magnifies the loading effect of the resistors on its output so the cartridge connected to the SUT input sees a much lower effective load than the resistor value. The actual load will depend on the transformer ratio. As an example, if a 1:10 stepup is used with a typical 47k loading resistor in the phono preamp, the effective load seen by the cartridge is 470 ohms.

 

[Atmasphere]

I think the seller meant plugging the 12k resistors in on the output of the SUT, not the input of the SUT. The transformer ratio effectively magnifies the loading effect of the resistors on its output so the cartridge connected to the SUT input sees a much lower effective load than the resistor value. The actual load will depend on the transformer ratio. As an example, if a 1:10 stepup is used with a typical 47k loading resistor in the phono preamp, the effective load seen by the cartridge is 470 ohms.

Correct- and that is exactly what I was talking about. Again, the load on the cartridge is irrelevant; this is all about keeping the transformer from ringing.