Best phono stage?

[Lagonda]

I’m not necessarily doubting this, although I imagine it might be not super easy to do. I mentioned the VM95 in my example for a reason, as I found the Shibata version to be a bit of a sonic surprise.

You just need to buy one of Ralph's phono preamps and use balanced cables, cartridge loading and cables are then of no importance, it all sounds the same.

 

[SoundMann]

You just need to buy one of Ralph's phono preamps and use balanced cables, cartridge loading and cables are then of no importance, it all sounds the same.

Once you can hear everything that is wrong with a recording, it pretty much does for the most part. But one will still hear striking differences between cartridges.

 

[Atmasphere]

You just need to buy one of Ralph's phono preamps and use balanced cables, cartridge loading and cables are then of no importance, it all sounds the same.

All very easy to demonstrate. In effect, if you have to load your LOMC cartridge to get it to sound right, the designer missed something in the phono section design. Its not only easy to demonstrate, its also measurable. The reason to use balanced lines of course is not because they all sound the same, rather they sound the best

 

[Lagonda]

All very easy to demonstrate. In effect, if you have to load your LOMC cartridge to get it to sound right, the designer missed something in the phono section design. Its not only easy to demonstrate, its also measurable. The reason to use balanced lines of course is not because they all sound the same, rather they sound the best

You normally say you use balanced connection so that the cables don't make a sound difference anymore, ergo all the same. Yes a lot of well recognized designers have all missed the boat on loading, only you can make a phono section where loading does not matter.

 

[godofwealth]

@Atmasphere
How to make the phono stage immune to RF is the problem. I hear Ron and the people at Rada, which is another phono stage I really like, know they have noise issues. But they don't want to throw the baby out with the bath water. Their units work in most places. Not all. But their units might not play well at all if they spent the $$$ and hours with R&D to make them quiet.

Channel D walks a line. Its not the best phono I have heard. But its about $3700, quiet and very good. I am confident there are much better phono stages out there that are as or more quiet than my Channel D in most environments. But they seem to cost more like $12,000 and up. Heck, I see people spend $7,000 or more just for a SUT.

Unfortunately, phono stages in my experience attests to the maxim that you get what you pay for. I have been a fan of ARC's Reference Phono stages for almost 30 years, and find for my tastes, they are well nigh perfect. I currently own the ARC Ref Phono 3SE, which is by no means a cheap unit. It seems almost ridiculous that one needs to have a 40 pound 8-tube behemoth to amplify a signal that is in the microvolts. But, like the Ref Phono I owned before, the Phono 3 SE is absolutely noiseless. I've never heard it produce a hum or any noise other than amplify the extremely low level signal from a moving coil. Thanks to a whopping 74 dB gain (at the high setting), and remote control convenience for adjusting loading, it is very easy to tweak and find a good match to almost any cartridge. Even a budget Shure comes across as a lovely cartridge through the 3SE.

At the other end of the spectrum, I am also recently a huge fan of the Mola Mola Makua, an all-in-one preamp with the Tambaqui DAC built-in, and the most flexible phono stage I have ever owned in 40 years. Thanks to a clever matrix design, every input to the Makua can be made into a phono stage, and you can go crazy and run 8 turntables into it, each with its own cartridge. You can knock yourself out and try dozens of equalization curves, and tweak every parameter from your smartphone. I wish I could say that it sounds as good as the Phono 3SE. It does not, but that's a hard task for most phono stages that are even stand alone, let alone built into a preamp. Too many solid state phono stages sound compressed to me, and the Mola Mola is no different. It's certainly extremely quiet, and very smooth sounding, but you do not get the crazy dynamics that the Phono 3SE is capable of.

I have not heard the ARC Ref Phono 10, which I assume must be even better, but I have no space for a two-box phono stage. I can't justify the expense as I wish I had time to listen to vinyl more.

 

[Atmasphere]

You normally say you use balanced connection so that the cables don't make a sound difference anymore, ergo all the same. Yes a lot of well recognized designers have all missed the boat on loading, only you can make a phono section where loading does not matter.

When the cables are working at their best, yes, they will all sound the same

I'm not the only one that understands what happens when you put a inductance in parallel with a capacitance. That's Electronics 101 week one . You have to go to school for that.These days there's also the internet

So yeah, if a designer is well-recognized and missed the boat on this one, the simple fact is they are well-recognized and missed the boat.

 

[Kingrex]

Unfortunately, phono stages in my experience attests to the maxim that you get what you pay for. I have been a fan of ARC's Reference Phono stages for almost 30 years, and find for my tastes, they are well nigh perfect. I currently own the ARC Ref Phono 3SE, which is by no means a cheap unit. It seems almost ridiculous that one needs to have a 40 pound 8-tube behemoth to amplify a signal that is in the microvolts. But, like the Ref Phono I owned before, the Phono 3 SE is absolutely noiseless. I've never heard it produce a hum or any noise other than amplify the extremely low level signal from a moving coil. Thanks to a whopping 74 dB gain (at the high setting), and remote control convenience for adjusting loading, it is very easy to tweak and find a good match to almost any cartridge. Even a budget Shure comes across as a lovely cartridge through the 3SE.

At the other end of the spectrum, I am also recently a huge fan of the Mola Mola Makua, an all-in-one preamp with the Tambaqui DAC built-in, and the most flexible phono stage I have ever owned in 40 years. Thanks to a clever matrix design, every input to the Makua can be made into a phono stage, and you can go crazy and run 8 turntables into it, each with its own cartridge. You can knock yourself out and try dozens of equalization curves, and tweak every parameter from your smartphone. I wish I could say that it sounds as good as the Phono 3SE. It does not, but that's a hard task for most phono stages that are even stand alone, let alone built into a preamp. Too many solid state phono stages sound compressed to me, and the Mola Mola is no different. It's certainly extremely quiet, and very smooth sounding, but you do not get the crazy dynamics that the Phono 3SE is capable of.

I have not heard the ARC Ref Phono 10, which I assume must be even better, but I have no space for a two-box phono stage. I can't justify the expense as I wish I had time to listen to vinyl more.

I am torn. Sure you gwt what you pay for. But when are you paying for a fancy case

 

[godofwealth]

One can indeed find good bargains in used phono stages. I’ve heard good things about Klyne, but never used one myself. Sutherland is another brand that’s popular. I have a Primare phono stage that I bought for $500! It’s quite good but not ARC quality. Sometimes you can work with a budget unit if the system it is going in is compatible or vinyl is not something you listen to often. I’m hard pressed to justify investing in an ARC Phono 3SE as I listen to vinyl less often than I like. I doubt I’ll buy another high end phono stage at this point.

 

[Dierkx1]

One can indeed find good bargains in used phono stages. I’ve heard good things about Klyne, but never used one myself. Sutherland is another brand that’s popular. I have a Primare phono stage that I bought for $500! It’s quite good but not ARC quality. Sometimes you can work with a budget unit if the system it is going in is compatible or vinyl is not something you listen to often. I’m hard pressed to justify investing in an ARC Phono 3SE as I listen to vinyl less often than I like. I doubt I’ll buy another high end phono stage at this point.

I'd add John Curl's Vendetta SCP to the list.

 

[paul79]

Sorry! I just saw this. In an earlier post I indicated that my interest was in a phono stage with more than one input, flexibility for my varied assortment of MM, MI, and MC carts (including a current input), that could sound good and maybe come in at less cost around an XP27. Near as I can tell Ron’s phono pres are all single input.

The Dos Locos can accept 2 carts, and you can add a third chassis (Tres Locos) if you want 2 stereo and a mono. Just keep in mind, these are of the transimpedance variety, so only LOMC and Low impedance carts will work.

 

[singulaudio]

You don’t need to spend a fortune to get a world class phono stage. Just get a Primaluna Evo 100. You may want to replace the stock MC stage 6922 tubes with, say Telefunkens or Gold Lion’s. It sounds better than any solid state stage I’ve heard in my system , including a Pass XP-27. I would put it up against a REF 3 SE, which I demoed at home. It was great, but not better than what I have now.

 

[djbnh]

I’d love to see a dual input plus trans-impedance input phono pre that betters the Pass XP-27 for about the same price. Unrealistic maybe, but I can hope.

We've had the XP-27 for a few weeks now and love it. Paired with the following gear:

Pass P-32 preamp
Pass XP 250.8 amp (Class AB).
Qualio IQ speakers on Gaia II footers: speakers are 4-ohm, so that's 500W/channel via the XP 250.8. They'll likely never have to run out of Class A power.

Pure Fidelity Harmony turntable with Gaia footers
Hana Umami Red cartridge
Origin Live Illustrious SE tonearm

Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC
NuPrime CDT-10 transport
Tubulus Concentus I2S cable

McIntosh MAC7200 receiver (using the tuner only)

Allnic cable loom including:

• ZL-5000 Power Cable
• ZL-3000 mk2 Power Cables
• Mu-7R Balanced Intercables
• Mu-7R Digital Cable
• ZL-5000 Speaker Cables

Triode Wire Labs Seven Plus Power Cord
Other assorted balanced and single ended interconnects
Dedicated audio room with some treatments
Two dedicated 20A circuits: one analog, the other digital
Timbernation custom audio rack
3" maple amp platform
Degritter Mark II record cleaning machine
Herbie's Big Fat Dots
Isopods

 

[Arewethereyet]

You don’t need to spend a fortune to get a world class phono stage. Just get a Primaluna Evo 100. You may want to replace the stock MC stage 6922 tubes with, say Telefunkens or Gold Lion’s. It sounds better than any solid state stage I’ve heard in my system , including a Pass XP-27. I would put it up against a REF 3 SE, which I demoed at home. It was great, but not better than what I have now.

Are you saying you have the Prima Luna EVO 100 Phono now and compared to the ARC REF 6SE, you prefer the EVO 100? BTW, I have the EVO 100 with Telefunken 6922s and really enjoy it.

 

[singulaudio]

Are you saying you have the Prima Luna EVO 100 Phono now and compared to the ARC REF 6SE, you prefer the EVO 100? BTW, I have the EVO 100 with Telefunken 6922s and really enjoy it.

I’d say it’s competitive with it, but not necessarily better.

 

[heihei]

RCM Big Phono - incredible phono stage based on what I've heard in my system so far.

 

[djbnh]

RCM Big Phono - incredible phono stage based on what I've heard in my system so far.

Price: £39,950, that's a sweet chunk'a'change. Glad you're enjoying it: https://hifiplus.com/articles/rcm-audio-the-big-phono-phono-stage/

 

[heihei]

Gone up since that review - £43k! But yes - def spendy. There is a used one for sale in the UK at the moment for anyone interested....

 

[poonbean]

Great thread.
Yet no mention yet of the phono stages on my list - audionet pam, Lamm (either), ypsilon vps100. Bummer.

 

[Rensselaer]

Great thread.
Yet no mention yet of the phono stages on my list - audionet pam, Lamm (either), ypsilon vps100. Bummer.

I have an Ypsilon VPS-100 phono stage. I think it the Bee's Knees, but my experience with other high end phono stages is limited.

Kedar (Bonzo75) is/has been recently bringing other phono stages over to swap in for a listen, so far the Ypsilon maintains the lead. He will no-doubt write up a review of his findings when done so watch out for that.

I run a pure analogue LP-only system in my listening room. I put it together based upon where I thought I would get the best return, and where I could save money by trading and pleading I did. The Ypsilon is by far the most-expensive piece of equipment in my system, followed in second place by my Phasemation T-2000 step up transformers!

I got a nice discount on the Ypsilon (from Fi in Scotland) by trading in my Leben Integrated and phono stage. I did not buy the Ypsilon SUT at that time (I'm told their silver SUT is the one to buy), but instead bought the Phasemation T-2000 pair (I bought a Phasemation PP-2000 MC cartridge, Reed 5A tangential tracking pivoted tonearm, cables and other assorted bits from Hugo Cass of Ammonite Audio so he kindly gave me a nice discount on the SUT's). I am quite pleased with the Phasemation step up transformers.

I run the phono stage directly into my OTOMON (Soundgate) Ongaku tribute/copy as it has volume pots included. My speakers are old beat up Altec A7's that I got for around £3000.00 then upgraded by reinforcing the cabinet, using Pete Riggle's crossovers, swapping out the ferrite compression driver for Great Plains 802-G8 Alnico series II and the horns for Marcus Klugg's wooden exponentials. The combination works quite well in my room (despite no room-tuning). I do have some YouTube vids of records playing on it (but nowhere near like what they sound like in person as recorded on an iPhone, compressed on YouTube and digital).

 

[bonzo75]

I have an Ypsilon VPS-100 phono stage. I think it the Bee's Knees, but my experience with other high end phono stages is limited.

Kedar (Bonzo75) is/has been recently bringing other phono stages over to swap in for a listen, so far the Ypsilon maintains the lead. He will no-doubt write up a review of his findings when done so watch out for that.

It was better than Misho's phono in your system, I have found Allnic 7000 comparable when recti swapped in another system with Lyra Atlas (ypsilon a bit more high, allnic more midbass and energy).