Best possible tonearm for Linn LP12

[DaveyF]

I meant sensitive of course.

 

[booker]

I made some research and it looks like Kuzma 4P 9 will fit the bill for my LP12. It can be done and with 920g of weight the bounce is still nice.

 

[BruceD]

I made some research and it looks like Kuzma 4P 9 will fit the bill for my LP12. It can be done and with 920g of weight the bounce is still nice.

Excellent sonic choice I feel from the current crop--well priced and excellent backup--I agree the FR SS arms are superb with the Stone K's--their weight on the LP12 is a worry hence I left them out originally.

Even getting those Arms to balance on the Oracle ( with accomodating Springs selections-unlike the Linn!)in those days was a chore.

You will be stoked with the Kuzma

BruceD

 

[booker]

I certainly look forward to this new experience. What I did was having 900g PU7 on my LP12 I added actually 25g weight onto the armboard near Keel mount hole and tested the bouncing. No change in bounce. Nice. Of course this is not the real thing but gives me an idea how subchassis reacts to 20+ grams added. Completely neutral as far as I can see.

 

[booker]

It looks that after all one little thing will make this tandem actually a no go. 4P9 arm shaft diameter is 25mm while Keel mount hole diameter (official number) amounts to 24.97mm. 0.03mm difference makes is a no go unless 4P9 has also some tolerance there.

 

[microstrip]

Booker, on the other forum when I posted a thread about the importance of Azimuth adjustment and asked why the ‘best’ Linn arm doesn’t include this...I was told the following..( with considerable insistancy and some amount of frustration with my OP, lol):
The Ekos Se doesn’t need to include Azimuth adjustment, because only faulty cartridges from the factory don’t have their stylus aligned in a correct perpendicular manner! As such, adding another connection or adjustment would interfere with the arms rigidity.

Now on the face of it this seems like a crazy point of view, however, on some reflection I actually wonder if that is a very valid point! Therefore, why are you so concerned about your Colibri cartridge vs. other MC’s in this regard....isn’t the build accuracy sufficient to not have to concern oneself with Azimuth adjustments?

Just curious as to why you believe in the requirement for Azimuth adjustment..and I suspect it is for a very good reason.
OTOH, could it be that Van Den Hul’s Build quality suffers from some lack of QC...as the other Linnie basically insisted.?

Unless we have real data with a significant number of samples of each cartridge this is just high-end gossip. But rumors start in this way. In the past some people had quality control problems with vdH cartridges. In Europe we sent them back to vdH and usually two/three weeks later we get them properly aligned or repaired. If other countries distributors have poor support it can be a problem. I have owned a few van dan Huls and never had a problem.

Systems having high resolution usually need more care in set up and show the effects of this care more easily, so we will have more opinions on them than on less resolving equipment. Surely there is an higher possibility of Colibri owners thinking about azimuth adjustment than from other inferior cartridges ... BTW, I will send the Colibri to the factory for realignment after 300 hours - it is part of the purchase.

Disclaimer - my Colibri Master Signature sample sounds so good without any azimuth adjustment that I forgot about it. But some time in the future I will carry it .

 

[DaveyF]

Unless we have real data with a significant number of samples of each cartridge this is just high-end gossip. But rumors start in this way. In the past some people had quality control problems with vdH cartridges. In Europe we sent them back to vdH and usually two/three weeks later we get them properly aligned or repaired. If other countries distributors have poor support it can be a problem. I have owned a few van dan Huls and never had a problem.

Systems having high resolution usually need more care in set up and show the effects of this care more easily, so we will have more opinions on them than on less resolving equipment. Surely there is an higher possibility of Colibri owners thinking about azimuth adjustment than from other inferior cartridges ... BTW, I will send the Colibri to the factory for realignment after 300 hours - it is part of the purchase.

Disclaimer - my Colibri Master Signature sample sounds so good without any azimuth adjustment that I forgot about it. But some time in the future I will carry it .

Micro, I am simply reporting back as to what I was told on the other forum. I'm not saying that Van Den Hul cartridges have QC problems...I have absolutely no idea. OTOH, I can see the point that this forum member ( Linnie) was getting at, at least in theory! That is, IF the stylus is 100% perpendicular in the cartridge body and is aligned correctly, then what is the purpose of having an azimuth adjustment? Since this question applies to ALL cartridges, and not specifically to Van Den Hul's, then i would think it could be apropos. Now I do agree that the more resolving the gear, the more potential for SQ diminishment in the event that the stylus is off even the smallest fraction, resulting in a need for said adjustment. Same for the output from each coil...but again, I think one could argue that this still boils down to a QC problem. One that maybe is expecting too much from the cartridge manufacturer...but that is entirely another question.
My question to you is...do you think that the Linnie has a point?

 

[DaveyF]

I made some research and it looks like Kuzma 4P 9 will fit the bill for my LP12. It can be done and with 920g of weight the bounce is still nice.

This tonearm ( Kuzma 4P9) has been discussed in relation to the LP12 on many platforms on the web. Consensus is that it is actually a poor fit, SQ wise. Apparently, the cable connection to the arm interferes with the table suspension and can be problematical. On the Linn forum, ( BTW a very good source of info on this table and ancillary gear), there are threads that address this issue..and posters who have actually gone away from the arm once they acquired it...due to their disappointment with it...on their LP12.
On the face of it, and according to Michael Fremer is his review, it is designed with the LP12 in mind, except it really wasn't! IMO, I would forget about the Kuzma arm and the LP12 combo...unfortunate as the Kuzma arms are generally excellent, and I'm sure the 4point 9 is no exception.

 

[booker]

DaveyF, could you point me to these threads om other forums where people were testing 4P9 on Their LP12 and concluding it doesn’t play well?

 

[microstrip]

Micro, I am simply reporting back as to what I was told on the other forum. I'm not saying that Van Den Hul cartridges have QC problems...I have absolutely no idea. OTOH, I can see the point that this forum member ( Linnie) was getting at, at least in theory! That is, IF the stylus is 100% perpendicular in the cartridge body and is aligned correctly, then what is the purpose of having an azimuth adjustment? Since this question applies to ALL cartridges, and not specifically to Van Den Hul's, then i would think it could be apropos. Now I do agree that the more resolving the gear, the more potential for SQ diminishment in the event that the stylus is off even the smallest fraction, resulting in a need for said adjustment. Same for the output from each coil...but again, I think one could argue that this still boils down to a QC problem. One that maybe is expecting too much from the cartridge manufacturer...but that is entirely another question.
My question to you is...do you think that the Linnie has a point?

I have owned complete Linn LP playback systems - decades ago I was fascinated by a Linn active Linn isobaric / Naim system at kj Leisure sound in London and went through a Linn phase. The objectives of these systems are peculiar and quite different from other approaches to stereo sound reproduction - imaging was secondary, as well as extreme detail. Probably in a genuine Linn system azimuth adjustment would be secondary. I have not read the original posts and I will not comment on the Linnie - but if I owned a Linn I would not buy a Colibri!

 

[booker]

What is actually definition of the Linnie? To me this is a person that uses all Linn equipment and does not consider anything else.

 

[DaveyF]

What is actually definition of the Linnie? To me this is a person that uses all Linn equipment and does not consider anything else.

Perhaps, but to me a Linnie is one who typically likes the LP12...and that's what I consider myself. All Linn gear..no, not so much love.

BTW, didn't you post on the Linn forum that you already bought a Kuzma 4point 9 arm...a year ago?? What did you do with it?

 

[booker]

I remember I started discussion there on Kuzma 4P9 but that was not related to testing this tonearm and rejecting it for its bad sound as you wrote above. It was discussion if it fits or not LP12 nothing more.

 

[booker]

On Colibri being rather not advisable for LP12 I think we could just test it. At the moment I rip The Beatles EP box for iPhone/car use so here it is a sample of my little XGP LW mounted on AO PU7 and played on LP12. Now if you could show us what your gear can do so that we could see how much detail is lost with LP12 this would be good. Or maybe there is some other particular track you wanna compare? Let us know. Here it is: https://www.dropbox.com/s/m0y2mz1kamysvbl/vdh sample.wav?dl=0

 

[DaveyF]

I remember I started discussion there on Kuzma 4P9 but that was not related to testing this tonearm and rejecting it for its bad sound as you wrote above. It was discussion if it fits or not LP12 nothing more.

Ok, but didn't you state over there that you owned the Kuzma arm? That was back in 2017.

 

[booker]

No I didn’t. I have never had Kuzma tonearm.

 

[booker]

Hello there,
I need to correct the above as I am proud to announce that now I am the happy owner of Kuzma 4 Point 9 tonearm! I just installed it on my Linn LP12 w/Keel and I can tell you this: this tonearm is very special. Works beautifully on my LP12 and gets my beloved VdH Colibri to voice more than ever with total control of this difficult cartridge. Here is the picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmgd7tq54yp37wk/Photo Sep 19, 12 28 13.jpg?dl=0

 

[DaveyF]

Hello there,
I need to correct the above as I am proud to announce that now I am the happy owner of Kuzma 4 Point 9 tonearm! I just installed it on my Linn LP12 w/Keel and I can tell you this: this tonearm is very special. Works beautifully on my LP12 and gets my beloved VdH Colibri to voice more than ever with total control of this difficult cartridge. Here is the picture: https://www.dropbox.com/s/tmgd7tq54yp37wk/Photo Sep 19, 12 28 13.jpg?dl=0

Oh ok, for some reason I thought you had posted that you owned this set up before...

Glad to hear that you like it. How are you addressing the cabling from the arm? How’s the bounce...?

 

[booker]

It is so simple that I should patent it.

 

[booker]

Oh and the bounce is perfect.