Beyond Turntables-Micro Seiki SZ-1t, SX-8000II & SX-8000

[ddk]

Drool!

What is your choice of cartridge?

I find that silicon damping might be more useful for moving magnet cartridges.

Jam

I'm a cartridge whore Jam! I can pin down the table and the arm but cartridges are a different story. Specially with eBay you have access to so many good & great ones from past too. Throw in the SUTs and you have even more combinations to make you go crazy. The silicone changes the character of the and is a kind of coloration that works with some cartridges but not all.

david

 

[abeidrov]

Hi David,

Given your extensive experience with various Micro Seiki tables and TechDAS, what is your view about the new AF3 model and which Micro Seiki model you would compare it to? For someone like myself, who cannot afford either AF1 or AF2, what is your view about the junior TechDAS model? Is it a viable option despite it relatively low mass?

Thanks,
Aziz

 

[bonzo75]

I'm a cartridge whore Jam! I can pin down the table and the arm but cartridges are a different story. Specially with eBay you have access to so many good & great ones from past too. Throw in the SUTs and you have even more combinations to make you go crazy. The silicone changes the character of the and is a kind of coloration that works with some cartridges but not all.

david

I am looking for the body and tone of a SPU anniversary with the higher end and resolution of a Lyra

 

[ddk]

Hi David,

Given your extensive experience with various Micro Seiki tables and TechDAS, what is your view about the new AF3 model and which Micro Seiki model you would compare it to? For someone like myself, who cannot afford either AF1 or AF2, what is your view about the junior TechDAS model? Is it a viable option despite it relatively low mass?

Thanks,
Aziz

Difficult to answer your question Aziz without knowing your definition of viable and my experience with AF-3 is limited Jack is the one to ask about AF-3.
david

 

[ddk]

I am looking for the body and tone of a SPU anniversary with the higher end and resolution of a Lyra

ZYX Universe Premium!

It's not a question of resolution Ked but delivery, classic designs like the SPU don't lack resolution specially the various anniversary models but deliver the music in a very different character than modern cartridges. IME the ZYX embodies the best of both worlds better than other cartridge I've heard plus it's very uncanny signature smoothness. This doesn't mean that there aren't other very fine cartridges out there but your question was very specific.

david

 

[Steve Williams]

ZYX Universe Premium!

It's not a question of resolution Ked but delivery, classic designs like the SPU don't lack resolution specially the various anniversary models but deliver the music in a very different character than modern cartridges. IME the ZYX embodies the best of both worlds better than other cartridge I've heard plus it's very uncanny signature smoothness. This doesn't mean that there aren't other very fine cartridges out there but your question was very specific.

david

I second that David

yesterday, Mike Lavigne paid me a surprise visit for an afternoon of listening. While paying vinyl I asked him if he wanted to do an a/b comparison of the two cartridges. It is a simple switch via my Lamm LP1 Signature. Mike also owns the Anna. Within 30 seconds Mike smiled and said something but finished by saying "let's listen only with the ZYX Premium".


Granted it wasn't a fair comparison as the arms were of different make and length however the sonic difference between the two is immediately apparent

 

[abeidrov]

Do you guys have any experience with the ZYX Universe II model? Does it have the same qualities as the more expensive ZYX Premium?

Thanks,
Aziz

 

[bonzo75]

I second that David

yesterday, Mike Lavigne paid me a surprise visit for an afternoon of listening. While paying vinyl I asked him if he wanted to do an a/b comparison of the two cartridges. It is a simple switch via my Lamm LP1 Signature. Mike also owns the Anna. Within 30 seconds Mike smiled and said something but finished by saying "let's listen only with the ZYX Premium".


Granted it wasn't a fair comparison as the arms were of different make and length however the sonic difference between the two is immediately apparent

I love that cartridge and agree but I also want something much cheaper.

 

[bonzo75]

Do you guys have any experience with the ZYX Universe II model? Does it have the same qualities as the more expensive ZYX Premium?

Thanks,
Aziz

Do you guys have any experience with the ZYX Universe II model? Does it have the same qualities as the more expensive ZYX Premium?

Thanks,
Aziz

I have compared it top AN IO and Koetsu rosewood platinum and really like it. It had nice timbre, bass, shows nuances of piano and violin, nice depth. I doubt it has the same qualities of the universe premium, maybe DDK can confirm

 

[JackD201]

Difficult to answer your question Aziz without knowing your definition of viable and my experience with AF-3 is limited Jack is the one to ask about AF-3.
david

I think of all the TD tables the AF3 has the closest direct relation to a MS table and that table would be the 5000. There are elements currently unique to the SZ like the air bearing motor flywheel that have yet to appear in any current TD table. Maybe the Zero perhaps?

 

[gian60]

Hi Ked,

I listened and i think the best cartridges at reasonable price are
Shelter Harmony,one my friend has with Atlas and Coralstone and also love Harmony,Dimitri is italian distributor and price list in Italy is 3.950 euro
Other is Transfiguration Proteus.I had Transfiguration Temper and was fantastic.
I never listen Proteus but 2 my friends have a lot of cartridges and all two tell Proteus is among the best.Price list in Italy 4.500 euro
Also Mijajima is consider good and one my friend bought Allnic and is very happy also
I think this 4 are the best at reasonable price

 

[Loheswaran]

have we ever moved forward since the late 70's early 80's turntables?

We’ll start with Micro Seiki company for the first “Beyond” installment. I don’t have many details about the company’s history but I remember that they hit the ground running in the 70’s with their amazing DDX-1000 turntable. The basic design elements of this table, high mass, high inertia with flexible multi-arm capacity was the basis for the tables that made the company legendary. I’m hoping some of you might know more about their history.


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While others only had one Beyond product Micro Seiki had 3! Since all three models share the same design concept and performed at near the same levels I’ll deal with them as one. There are some differences among them that we’ll get to later. Not much information is available regarding the chronology of these turntables but I think the first and the rarest of all Micro Seiki tables was the SZ-1, made in the mid 1980’s. A money no object 195 lbs. belt driven high mass, high inertia Statement turntable with air floating platter and even an air-bearing motor. SZ-1 had two platter options both with vacuum hold down, Gun Metal and Stainless Steel with a total inertia moment of 26t/cm2 (about 28 tons!). To complete the systems Micro Seiki offered a massive foundation designed specifically for the SZ-1 called the BA-100 Audio Base. With air bladders for isolation in the feet.


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(continued below...)

I have never had the chance to hear a Micro-Seiki. Sadly, in the UK, a belt driven fast running three spring Scottish deck was considered to all things originating from Japan, the US, or anywhere else for that matter - for that reason other decks from that era are not common in the UK.

This is an interesting thread as it supports the 'relevant technology' theory - insofar as Vinyl was more relevant to the general public up to the mid eighties - as such the boffins working for multi-nationals/specialists really crunched the numbers and made some magnificent machines back in the day. Many industries lose their craftsmen - tailoring, cobblers, metal machinists... A good example are NOS valves which I am told are the 'cat's whiskers' (not a tube man myself). Transistors too (Vendetta SCP2A Hitachi FET's).

I have my own little projects that are taking a backseat (personal reasons) which include and EMT 950 and a Sony TTS 8000.

BTW - check this website out http://www.micro-seiki.nl/start.html

thanks

Lohan

 

[amadeus]

What a Riches and happiness to have this two greatnesses together side by side and have all the miles and knowledge to compare and enjoy them...
Do you still have those both Masterworks?

Micro Seiki SZ-1t vs SX-8000II, a question that's often asked. Is there a major difference between the sound of these tables? Yes there is! Common to both tables is the same air floating bearing design and identical stainless steel platters, but they're quite different in over all mass and size. The SX-8000II is already formidable and of one the very best turntables ever made, period. SZ-1t is Micro Seiki's "Step Beyond". SZ-1t's additional size and mass translates to a more Natural sound. Everything is airier and more open, the music floats up and the bass is more nuanced, both solid and delicate adding richness and liveliness to the already spectacular sound of the SX-8000II...


Last weekend we received a 900 lb. shipment of two very special turntables.


View attachment 27269


One of them is a SX-8000II that I sold a few years ago, now back to us again. I decided to take a couple of side by side shots with the SZ-1t prior setup. Both tables have the same 28kgs stainless steel platter. SX-8000II's base comes in 35kgs, and the SZ-1t tilts the scale at 60kgs. As you can see even the matching system platform of the SZ-1t is on a different plane compared to the SX-8000II's BA-600.


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View attachment 27270


david

 

[ddk]

What a Riches and happiness to have this two greatnesses together side by side and have all the miles and knowledge to compare and enjoy them...
Do you still have those both Masterworks?

Yes, I was very fortunate that I caught on early to these amazing turntables. I have since sold both of tables but still have another SZ-1 that I kept for myself. There are just so many hours in the day and I just don't have the time to play all these turntables and I'm happy that they went to someone who loves and enjoys them; but he's also getting his AS-2000 at the end of this month, not sure if he'll continue playing these two .

david

 

[XV-1]

Where does the Micro Seiko SX-777 air bearing table stand in the MS stable and in general?

 

[ddk]

Where does the Micro Seiko SX-777 air bearing table stand in the MS stable and in general?

777-Air was part of Micro Seiki's lifestyle design, sonically it's close to the RX-5000 but doesn't have that players solidity. That could be because of the tonearms, 777-Air only takes 10" tonearms and I never had the L version to know for sure.

david

 

[CKKeung]

... but he's also getting his AS-2000 at the end of this month, not sure if he'll continue playing these two .
david

Hi David,
You are still making new AS-2000?

 

[airbearing]

This is the best tonearm to match a Micro-Seiki or AS2000 but it is not inexpensive



www.audiocirc.com

 

[ddk]

Hi David,
You are still making new AS-2000?

Hi CK,
The entire AS-2000 production sold out but there's one available from a client who bought multiple units. Reason for this is the new AS model coming out in the first half of next year and he's reserved the first two.

david

 

[Solypsa]

Best is always a moving target only some decades it doesn't move much. I'll be keen to hear about this next wave!