Bitcoin

[KeithR]

Bitcoin is the Dryships of 2007.

Bunch of Asian speculators basically. It will be funny as they try and get out with no liquidity

 

[asiufy]

I do too, Ron

There was a bit of a scare today, when my phone beeped with a Coinbase alert: "Bitcoin dropped to 9000". Oops!

I tried to login in (or use the app), and it was unresponsive. Looked like it was going to tank all the way to nothing... I was busy with other stuff, so I let it be... I checked a few hours later, and what to do you know, it's back to 10000-and-something...

I'm with Keith on this, at this point it's pure speculation. With all this new money coming in during Thanksgiving, so a bunch of heavy hitters must've decided to sell all at once...

 

[Folsom]

Bitcoin is the Dryships of 2007.

Bunch of Asian speculators basically. It will be funny as they try and get out with no liquidity

What'll be funny is pulling posts up like this in the future and laughing at Keith for not having any!

 

[NorthStar]

? http://www.newsbtc.com/2017/11/29/john-mcafee-ups-2020-prediction-1000000-btc/
? https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/29/james-altucher-predicts-bitcoin-will-reach-1-million-by-2020.html

If Bitcoin hits $1,000,000 by 2020 and if you buy only one bitcoin today @ say $10,000 (yesterday it dips to $9,000 from $11,000), you will make 100 times your initial investment, or to put it very simply, you will be a millionaire in just roughly three years.

Ask your personal financial manager, let him advise you, don't do transactions yourself, let him do it with your money...say just $10,000. That way you too can make some extremely solid gains very shortly.
And if in the interim darkness falls from the sky (volcano eruption, hurricane of the millennium, rocket loaded with heavy nuclear warhead, etc.), @ least you'd be short of only ten grand.

But no matter what; do NOT store your own wallet in your hard drive, do NOT consult some untrustable sites, do NOT click on links that are from Russia, China, North Korea, or even from USA.
Because, hackers they know how to get malware in your computer(s), and steal the bitcoin from your hard drive wallet.
I am not saying this out from nowhere, it is well known and the smart financial gurus have written countless articles about it. I can easily provide hundreds of wisdom articles.

Play SAFE, don't miss the ride because it's going to hit very very high in a very very short period of time.
So yes, if you can risk losing ten grand go ahead because the rewards can be astronomical very very fast.
But like I said, let your own financial adviser do it for you; you want zero tracking to you, you want to remain absolutely 100% anonymous.

I will provide good links on this, plus the bitcoin mining industry growing big time in Russia and in China.
In Korea they seem to be much more secretive, and in North America they are more concerned with women abuse, leaders corruption, electric vehicles, batteries, firing all executives from all walks of life who behaved improperly today and years ago, global warming/climate change, fake news, nuclear missiles and Twitter.

Bitcoin exists for a reason: Anonymity. You give up that you give access to viruses to infiltrate you and hackers to steal your bitcoin wallet.

NASDAQ they can do all they want with investors betting, the government they can do all they want with their taxes, but nobody can do anything if you don't leave any traces. Not even all the malwares and hackers from the cyber space of this planet.

 

[NorthStar]

You want to be anonymous. Read this:
• https://bitcoin.org/en/you-need-to-know
• https://99bitcoins.com/buy-bitcoin-anonymously-without-id/

That's why I said let someone else invest for you, like your trusted financial advisor. Is he/she 100% trustworthy? Like can you get your money anytime with capital gains without giving your phone number, email address, signature, IDs? ...With just your face, in person, and with direct cash.

Because that's what you want, cash, untraceable cash. ATM machines you have to give them some ID, and they certainly don't allow big cash transaction. There is just no way you can walk to your bitcoin ATM machine and withdraw say twenty grand. Those machines are too small, they are not the size of bank vaults with 3-foot thick metal/concrete doors. They are made of cheap metal and plastic, can only hold small bills and have limits. If they would contain say more than hundred grand everyone would start breaking them.

 

[NorthStar]

Not my favorite financial (bank*) investment company:
• https://amp.theguardian.com/busines...hicle-for-fraudsters-warns-goldman-sachs-boss

They are what they proclaim bitcoin to be...IMO. I could write a book about it.
___

Latest: https://www.cryptocoinsnews.com/bitcoin-price-declines-9200-factors-another-strong-rally/
___

* https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...24ad94170ab_story.html?utm_term=.f6f85ed44dd0
** http://fortune.com/2016/04/11/goldman-sachs-doj-settlement/
*** https://www.quora.com/How-corrupt-is-Goldman-Sachs

 

[KeithR]

What'll be funny is pulling posts up like this in the future and laughing at Keith for not having any!

i wish i did buy in this year - thought about it, but its not my style. the fact Joe Public is asking me about it says enough. can't say how many non-financial people are talking about it - my colleague overheard multiple tables at lunch. yikes!

 

[marty]

I have been following the bitcoin saga for a while and have concluded that I just don't have the balls the size of of Godzilla's that would allow me to sleep well at night if I invested in bitcoin.

I pass along this interesting article for your consideration
https://seekingalpha.com/article/41...hes?li_source=LI&li_medium=liftigniter-widget

For me, it comes down to this quote and figure from the article

"The rich are not looking to quickly double their money. Their main goal is to protect the money they already have so they never do risky investments where they can lose it all. The poor are trying to double their money fast so they take risky investments and usually lose it all."



By staying on the side, I guess I'm comfortable knowing that I will never make unlimited profits while at the same time knowing I will never lose 100% of my investment. Part of me however, wants bitcoin to succeed so that arrogant pricks like Jamie Dimon who were instrumental in bringing us our last recession, are appropriately scalded.

 

[Steve Williams]

I'm totally with Marty on this one

I think you guys are nuts to watch a stock that can gain and lose as much as 20% in a day. Not my cup of tea. I want to keep what I have rather than trying to make more and suddenly watch the bubble burst and kiss it all good bye

 

[Folsom]

Considering institutional money is just BARELY starting to get into Bitcion, you can't possibly think it's at a bubble peak... After all, John McAfee will have a terrible meal if Bitcoin doesn't have way bigger growth.

Steve, if you look at a chart for the year it's just up and up. If you try to look at it everyday you may lose your mind if you can't keep the big picture in focus.

 

[DaveC]

Considering institutional money is just BARELY starting to get into Bitcion, you can't possibly think it's at a bubble peak... After all, John McAfee will have a terrible meal if Bitcoin doesn't have way bigger growth.

Steve, if you look at a chart for the year it's just up and up. If you try to look at it everyday you may lose your mind if you can't keep the big picture in focus.

But like fiat, there's no backing and it's all built on speculation... then there's the issues of hacking, incredible amounts of energy usage, not declared "legal tender" by any country, and it's attraction by criminals.

Not a bubble? We will see... I wouldn't be opposed to investing but I also wouldn't be deluded that this isn't an extremely high risk.

 

[rockitman]

Bitcoin...run away and fast.

 

[Folsom]

But like fiat, there's no backing and it's all built on speculation... then there's the issues of hacking, incredible amounts of energy usage, not declared "legal tender" by any country, and it's attraction by criminals.

Not a bubble? We will see... I wouldn't be opposed to investing but I also wouldn't be deluded that this isn't an extremely high risk.

Wrong. It's backed by more than fiat. It's backed by POW (proof of work). You need to understand the technology for that one. It also is backed by international contention for value. It's got more for it than any other currency going.

Hacking is a non-issue with private wallets. And criminals don't want to use it because it is trackable. If you want to use it for criminal activity you'll be joining Ross Ulbricht in prison.

Is there risk involved? Yes. No one would deny that. But compared to traditional investments? Because no one has ever been wiped clean by those before...

 

[NorthStar]

Considering institutional money is just BARELY starting to get into Bitcion, you can't possibly think it's at a bubble peak... After all, John McAfee will have a terrible meal if Bitcoin doesn't have way bigger growth.

Steve, if you look at a chart for the year it's just up and up. If you try to look at it everyday you may lose your mind if you can't keep the big picture in focus.

Lol yes. :b That was pretty funny when he said that...do you think he meant it?

And he's not the only one predicting $1 million value for bitcoin by 2020. ...That's three years!
I've read about one bitcoin mine in Switzerland; but it is closed down now...utility bills where just too high.

• https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1374834.0

 

[NorthStar]

It is very very hot inside a bitcoin mining farm; many many fans and super high computer processing power. The top securities are solidly in place to prevent hackers from infiltrating the network. The more I learn about it the more I like the idea. This should have been in place a long long time ago, before Wall Street, before Dow Jones, before NASDAQ, before the world banking system.
I'm starting to warm up, and understand much more.
If I am anything close to what I just said, by the end of this year we might very well see bitcoin hitting $14,000-15,000
And in 2018; $20,000 and $50,000 later on. Strap your seatbelt and ride the rollercoaster higher and higher; the falls will be exhilarating, and the climbs astronomical. That is more my opinion today. ...Just for the fun of it, because that's what money/bitcoin is all about...fun, thrills, entertainment...

Sure, there are other things money is good for; pay the bills, electricity, gas, a new car, Tesla Roadster, food, clean water, nice neighborhood, nice neighbors, friends, stereos, OLED TVs, movie theater tickets, music concert hall tickets, high speed internet monthly rates, cell phone plans, contracts, TV bills, home repairs, new paint job, new roof, lawn maintenance, boats, trucks, travels, ferries, cruise ships, bingos, casinos, kids allowances, expenditures, tools, bathroom tissues, commodities, plane tickets, funeral expenses, new hi-res music downloads, new LPs, restaurants, room service, gold jewelry, new shoes, Italian clothes, diamond watches, Rolls Royces, Rolex, Rolling Stones ...

 

[NorthStar]

And it is rebouncing, of course: http://fortune.com/2017/12/01/bitcoin-price-cme-cftc-futures/

 

[NorthStar]

Cars made in the fifties and sixties were more secured, harder to steal...you'd have to break a window and the steering column.

In Canada, bitcoin is scaring people so much that the news media are spreading the fear into the population, as if it was a disease.
• https://globalnews.ca/news/3887041/bitcoin-canada-invest/

Three years from now those same news media will be bankrupt because their customers will tune away.
It is a different mentality for sure. Faith is not the same in everyone's mind.

 

[DaveC]

Wrong. It's backed by more than fiat. It's backed by POW (proof of work). You need to understand the technology for that one. It also is backed by international contention for value. It's got more for it than any other currency going.

Hacking is a non-issue with private wallets. And criminals don't want to use it because it is trackable. If you want to use it for criminal activity you'll be joining Ross Ulbricht in prison.

Is there risk involved? Yes. No one would deny that. But compared to traditional investments? Because no one has ever been wiped clean by those before...

Don't keep telling people they don't understand. I do get it, I almost invested in as mining rig years ago.

IMO, the entire premise is flawed, and it was indeed started as an anonymous payment system for criminals to use. The fact it doesn't work and the transactions are traceable is a FAILURE of bitcoin, as is it's ridiculous "mining" system where the cost of energy to "mine" bitcoin is held a bit below it's actual value.

But whatever, if the last couple years have brought anything into the light, it's the stupidity of human beings. This is stupid, 5000 lb Teslas are stupid, Trump Vs Kim Jong Un is possibly the stupidest and most pathetic thing the world has seen and everyone should feel disgrace that they are of the same species as them.

So, no surprise that bitcoin is taking off... but that doesn't make it any less stupid.

 

[Pb Blimp]

Wrong. It's backed by more than fiat. It's backed by POW (proof of work). You need to understand the technology for that one. It also is backed by international contention for value. It's got more for it than any other currency going.

Hacking is a non-issue with private wallets. And criminals don't want to use it because it is trackable. If you want to use it for criminal activity you'll be joining Ross Ulbricht in prison.

Is there risk involved? Yes. No one would deny that. But compared to traditional investments? Because no one has ever been wiped clean by those before...

What gives fiat money worth starts with the fact that each sovereign entity around the globe has things called laws that bind its citizens to certain behaviors punishable by things like imprisonment or fines for lack of compliance. A common example of such laws is the requirement that citizens pay to the sovereign entity a portion of the earnings in the form of a tax. This creates a financial obligation on the part of the citizen that the sovereign entity agrees can be settled by tendering a specific currency designated by the sovereign entity to avoid imprisonment or additional financial duties. This inturn gives the financial systems in such countries confidence to settle debts in the same currency. No such concept applies anywhere in the developed world for Bitcoin.

Bitcoin's value on the other hand, while initially predicated largely on its role as a mechanism for off the grid payments and laundering at transaction costs less than the market rate, has evolved into a purely speculative game that is a lot of fun to play but is not predicated on anything of substance. Make no mistake there are now countless players of varying degrees of credibility actively pitching valuations with unrestrained conviction based hope and dreams. This is the essence of a speculative bubble. It is as if a new vehicle has finally been developed that could be used to settle one's debts.....oh wait that's been around for a while and it's called fiat currency and it stores value but does not magically create it out of thin air. This whole thing will end when the sovereign entities require compliance of all bitcoin transactions with international taxation and legal systems at which time bitcoin just becomes another currency but one that is not accepted by the banking system or the sovereign entities ergo it will be recognized as a simple redundancy serving no meaningful economic purpose.

In the meantime it is a lot of fun to watch but I am not selling my Tulips.

 

[rockitman]

^^^Thanks Paul. I think you summed it up very well. Cheers !