Blind Listening Comparison

For a simple audiophile A/B listening comparison, the only difference between a sighted and unsighted test is that with the later you don’t which is which.

Yes, the typical quick casual A/B listening comparisons are useless in both modes when addressing small differences.

It can be useful,from my experience, without meeting the strictures of an AES paper.

No one is addressing strict tests or AES, just blind test general methodology. As long as we do not know of your experience we can end here.
 
Because it is the truth, as there is no control or discussion of a blind decision. It is either valid or not valid. Anyway the real proof of i is in the decision of people who support them not to share their methods and results. The whole community who shares sighted opinions reports on their biases, methods and opinions.

I have read about properly carried blind tests transparently reported and respect them. But I am highly suspicious of uncontrolled audiophile challenges. Surely IMHO, YMMV.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify.
BTW, please do not mix our discussion with your disputes with other members.
Apologies, if you felt that was occurring. There is no dispute on my part, just a desire to understand.
I could also use some strong sounding latin words to refer to this strategy, but IMO it will only spoil the subject.
On the contrary, using well understood terms in a discussion leads to clarity and should be encouraged.
 
Would you spend time sterilizing your hands and then use those same hands to turn off the faucet and open the door to the room you washed in before performing the task that required sterilization?
i sympathize with Professor Dave and has fight against the flat earthers.
 
I started typing answers and got overwhelmed, so, a bit more info for now:
I A/B'd quickly and I heard clear differences; Did again the next day with same result. Wife heard same differences both times though she didn't know which cable was which.
The differences seemed so clear, the double blind test will be for fun as another check on just how clear the difference is, or to validate such.
I can quickly and always tell a trumpet from a piano. Can I always hear the fullness in one cable v other?
I agree with Elliot. Then I'll listen to the new cable for a week and change back to the prior cord. Past equipment comparisons, I'd hear a difference immediately and want its strengths/preferences, only to change my mind on longer listening, not willing to accept the lessened aspects.
Here, I'm not seeking statistical significance just another data point. And learning more about myself and my system.

What happened to NC Lee's test? I was intrigued!

FWIW: I've done this test myself.

I once had a selection of Shunyata AC cables, from less expensive to more expensive. I was somewhat skeptical to begin with about the idea, and didn't hear a difference with two of them. But the third one...huh?...it seemed to make an obvious difference. Like the system sounded "darker" more lush, more sophisticated. I wasn't actually sure if I liked the change, but it certainly seemed there nonetheless.

BUT...knowing the technical controversies regarding AC cables and knowing very well our propensity for bias (which by it's very nature operates when we think it isn't doing so), I had my engineer father in law help me do a blind test between that Shunyata cable and the cheap off-the-shelf AC cable I'd been using.

I actually wore a sleeping mask. We did randomized switching determined by coin flips. We first did a randomized test to ensure I could not detect which cable he was switching in just by the sound of his doing so. Nope. On to the test:
Well...whaddya know? Absolutely random results. There was nothing of that "obviously darkened, richer" sonic signature to detect the Shunyata cable from the cheap cable. Zilch.

Yet another lesson in the power of sighted bias - even when you aren't expecting differences you can think you "hear" them.

A certain kind of audiophile will "fail" a test like this and look for ways to reject the test. I took it as a lesson - obviously not rigorous science, but a data point on the issue. Subsequently I have done a number of blind tests - video cables, music servers, DACs, pre-amps - with interesting results (positive tests for differences in some cases - e.g. DACs, pre-amps - not in others - cables, servers).

So, with this background, I was looking forward to seeing the result of NC Lee's test. I hope he does it and posts the result.
 
What happened to NC Lee's test? I was intrigued!

FWIW: I've done this test myself.

I once had a selection of Shunyata AC cables, from less expensive to more expensive. I was somewhat skeptical to begin with about the idea, and didn't hear a difference with two of them. But the third one...huh?...it seemed to make an obvious difference. Like the system sounded "darker" more lush, more sophisticated. I wasn't actually sure if I liked the change, but it certainly seemed there nonetheless.

BUT...knowing the technical controversies regarding AC cables and knowing very well our propensity for bias (which by it's very nature operates when we think it isn't doing so), I had my engineer father in law help me do a blind test between that Shunyata cable and the cheap off-the-shelf AC cable I'd been using.

I actually wore a sleeping mask. We did randomized switching determined by coin flips. We first did a randomized test to ensure I could not detect which cable he was switching in just by the sound of his doing so. Nope. On to the test:
Well...whaddya know? Absolutely random results. There was nothing of that "obviously darkened, richer" sonic signature to detect the Shunyata cable from the cheap cable. Zilch.

Yet another lesson in the power of sighted bias - even when you aren't expecting differences you can think you "hear" them.

A certain kind of audiophile will "fail" a test like this and look for ways to reject the test. I took it as a lesson - obviously not rigorous science, but a data point on the issue. Subsequently I have done a number of blind tests - video cables, music servers, DACs, pre-amps - with interesting results (positive tests for differences in some cases - e.g. DACs, pre-amps - not in others - cables, servers).

So, with this background, I was looking forward to seeing the result of NC Lee's test. I hope he does it and posts the result.
Me too, and I'm hoping he passes the test! If he doesn't, that will be what I expect based on what seems logically coherent to me about why a power cable shouldn't make an audible difference. But if it does make a confirmed audible difference, then there's an open door to new understanding and the possibilities that might come with it.
 
Apologies if someone has already posted similar thoughts. I would suggest the exact opposite approach.

Listen to one cable for a minimum of 10 to 20 hours over several days using a variety of music genres. Be advised that what may sound better with one genre may not be the case with another. Repeat with the other. Switch back to the first cable and you should have your answer.

Make sure you use same music, volume levels are identical to the extent possible and that both pc's are broken in. In my view, this will allow you to better discern the difference between the two and allow you to make a much more informed decision.
 
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I feel fortunate that I do not feel compelled to do blind listening tests. If it sounds good to me it is good. Keeps life simple.

It can also keep life expensive :)

A lot of audiophiles are perhaps spending large sums of money on items that are unlikely to add anything real in sonic terms to their system, where they could have spent the money on something more fruitful. Like many audiophiles, my budget is not unlimited. I probably wouldn't own the particular speakers I managed to afford if I'd diverted resources to things like expensive cables and other things in the tweakier side of the hobby...so I'm happy with some of the things I learned from blind testing...and from other people blind testing gear.

Personally I don't do it a lot, but when it's something I'm really curious about, or especially if I want to ensure my money will be well spent, then I sometimes do blind tests. And sometimes, just for fun.

Also, as to keeping life simple, if you don't worry about things like "how will my cables change the sound?" or "do I need power conditioning?" or "do I need to buy cable lifters" or "how long until this thing breaks in" etc, that certainly simplifies lots of the complexity that other audiophiles are bringing to the hobby.
 
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Ah yes. The1030ebf7c0f21c56d39df04d2292d705.jpg consumer advocate approach. Just trying to save you a few bucks.
 
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Ah yes. TheView attachment 104925 consumer advocate approach. Just trying to save you a few bucks.

Could you be clearer about the object of your sarcasm?

Is it that NC Lee is willing to post (when he does) about doing a blind test with some cables?

Is it that I mentioned my own experience doing so? And my reasons for doing it? (Wanting to understand where I personally want to spend my money?)

Are you disparaging of audiophiles sharing these experiences testing out cables etc that others might find interesting or helpful?
 
Could you be clearer about the object of your sarcasm?
I think you got the jist of it.
Is it that NC Lee is willing to post (when he does) about doing a blind test with some cables?
Not at all.
Is it that I mentioned my own experience doing so? And my reasons for doing it? (Wanting to understand where I personally want to spend my money?)
Post anything you like
Are you disparaging of audiophiles sharing these experiences testing out cables etc that others might find interesting or helpful?
Not at all.
 
I think you got the jist of it.

I guess I didn't. That's why I asked the questions.

You thought something here was worthy of your sarcasm, but when any possible objects of your sarcasm I could think of are suggested, you suggest having no problem.

So you've left me baffled as to what you were being sarcastic over.

But, it's up to you if you want to help someone understand a post, especially a dig that may be misunderstood. Doing so would seem to be be part of "sociable" and "friendly" dialogue...noting your signature line.
 
[text omitted]
It can also keep life expensive :)

A lot of audiophiles are perhaps spending large sums of money on items that are unlikely to add anything real in sonic terms to their system, where they could have spent the money on something more fruitful. Like many audiophiles, my budget is not unlimited. I probably wouldn't own the particular speakers I managed to afford if I'd diverted resources to things like expensive cables and other things in the tweakier side of the hobby...so I'm happy with some of the things I learned from blind testing...and from other people blind testing gear.

Personally I don't do it a lot, but when it's something I'm really curious about, or especially if I want to ensure my money will be well spent, then I sometimes do blind tests. And sometimes, just for fun.

Also, as to keeping life simple, if you don't worry about things like "how will my cables change the sound?" or "do I need power conditioning?" or "do I need to buy cable lifters" or "how long until this thing breaks in" etc, that certainly simplifies lots of the complexity that other audiophiles are bringing to the hobby.


I actually wore a sleeping mask. We did randomized switching determined by coin flips. We first did a randomized test to ensure I could not detect which cable he was switching in just by the sound of his doing so. Nope. On to the test:
Well...whaddya know? Absolutely random results. There was nothing of that "obviously darkened, richer" sonic signature to detect the Shunyata cable from the cheap cable. Zilch.

Yet another lesson in the power of sighted bias - even when you aren't expecting differences you can think you "hear" them.

A certain kind of audiophile will "fail" a test like this and look for ways to reject the test. I took it as a lesson - obviously not rigorous science, but a data point on the issue. Subsequently I have done a number of blind tests - video cables, music servers, DACs, pre-amps - with interesting results (positive tests for differences in some cases - e.g. DACs, pre-amps - not in others - cables, servers).

So, with this background, I was looking forward to seeing the result of NC Lee's test. I hope he does it and posts the result.
Pretty strong opinions don't you think.?
 
Pretty strong opinions don't you think.?

How so? No stronger than plenty of opinions posted day in and day out on audiophile forums like this. Do you hold any strong opinions? Isn't this forum full of strong opinions? Isn't the cable forum full of strong opinions about "X cable TOTALLY changed the sound of my system?" etc? Again...what's wrong with an audiophile sharing his experience, and reasons for doing tests? Are you also aiming the same sarcasm at the people in the cable forum declaring
the "obvious differences in cables?" Or is it just when someone posts about negative results?

Also, note: "A lot of audiophiles are perhaps spending large sums of money on items that are unlikely to add anything real in sonic terms to their system,.."

I didn't make any general wide-ranging totally confident claim - just that in some cases perhaps some are spending lots of money on something that might not change their sound the way they believe or hope. And I kept mainly to my own experience and the inferences I have made from that experience.

Can you actually find something to criticize about my post rather than yet again some opaque comment about "strong opinions" ?

And, maybe re-visit your tag line to maybe re-fresh your approach to this conversation? ;-)
 
Allow me to reiterate. "Those who seek the chaperone of science need some science." You don't get to parade your anecdotal pseudo scientific evidence as fact.
You posted late. That does not mean you did not read the entire thread. If you did, you would see I already addressed your issues.
As far as what others did, I don't respond to "whatabout-ism" arguments. As my mother used to say ,If you friends set there hair ion fire, would you do the same?

Edit: Let us settle this. I am willing to accept the fact that you can't hear a difference as you claim. Are you willing to accept my claim that i can?
 
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I find there to be significant exploitation on both sides. On the blind test side is the assumption that the null hypothesis has been proven because of statistically "insignificant" results. On the other side there is to much hyperbole related to the proposed improvements. Moreover the discover of the problem is also the seller of the cure.
Uh Oh, There i go down the rabbit hole.
here I am crticizing both sides.
 
I agree with COF that it can be expensive to buy based on sighted listening. That's ok if the money's not a problem. I generally agree with the notion that you get what you pay for. If it's a perception of better sound that you wanted, and you perceive it during sighted listening, then you got precisely what you paid for. No need to ask how the perception formed - unless you're plagued with curiosity.
 
I once was blind tested by an audiophile friend on two audiophile power cords and I could easily hear the differences. One was clearly superior to the other, and I reliably picked it out.

Fortunately, the one that was superior was one that I had chosen in a sighted audition for my own system. I have to admit that I did sweat a little quite a bit during the blind test, because I knew that one of the power cords tested was the same as mine.
 
Faulty evaluations ,blind or sighted can be expensive and frustrating. The belief that here is no difference can result in being confined to a mediocre product
My total cost. All available on 30 day return
2 power cords
One combination A/C filter and power strip.
2USB thumb drive filters
Bag assorted magnetic filters
Total $400.00
That is a hardly a budget buster. It depends on your discretionary income of course.

It is all relative.
 
I once was blind tested by an audiophile friend on two audiophile power cords and I could easily hear the differences. One was clearly superior to the other, and I reliably picked it out.

Do you want to share the details and raw results of such test? Was it a double blind test?
 

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