Burmester 911 mk3

[FrantzM]

Hi

Guys.. I may well be the WBF #1 Burmester fan and have been a fan since 1990 maybe earlier , also have heard likely the whole line up including rare and obscure product like the spectacular 870 DAC preamp and the small but incredibly good sounding 878 (70 w/ch of glorious Burmester sound). I have not yet heard electronics that would have me change my position. I however have heard electronics that I can live happily with happily and have mentioned these here. And Soulution would be part of this list. If they sounded "thin" it had to do with the set-up likely room acoustics and/or speaker positioning or inadequate source. While I would not go ahead and swap Soulution for Burmester I did not find them thin at all .. Quite the contrary Robust and clear everywhere. For what they do and what they cost I continue to prefer Burmester but good they are and very much so... But I do find the quality regardless of price in favor of Burmester if one adds the concept of quality to price ratio then they are not in the running as I find them obscenely priced when there is competition that cost much less for example the fabulous Bryston 28 B monos .. Still Soulution electronics I have heard were not thin .. Not at all. Burmester still sounded beter to these ears but not in direct comparison I must qui9ckly add ... Different systems in different rooms and all that ...

Considering cable ... I am not a believer .. Been there and done that... and will not invest in a any cable worth a car or even part of a car. Heavy Gauge copper and Well Engineered cables such as Canare or Belden have their place in my system... That's me if one finds it interesting and hear "huge" difference between cables I can bet on my dearest possession that the evaluation was in full knowledge of the cable involved. Sorry to rain on some people parade but that's my take...

I am coming back to the fray .. I am on a deal I can't pass (although I don't have adequate room nor speakers) and will let you know .. Still no room nor speakers .. The strangest way to build a system and contrary to my deepest beliefs but I am Burmester fan .. What can I do ??? pass the deal? No Way !! Since the Burmester 911 drives almost anything with ease it is not such a wild risk .. Still

 

[Rocco I.]

Nice post Frantz.

+1

 

[MarinJim]

Hi Rocco,

I think my dealer wants me to try Nordost Cable. I will eventually try what he recommends when I can afford it.

Joe,

I have had Odin cables in my system. They are SOTA for sure, but I got 95% of the sound with Patrick Cullen Cables, and at 95% less money. He offers 100% satisfaction with over 30 day trial period. I sold all my cables to have him custom make all my cables and even tell him what connectors I want. I have taken my 911 MK3 off the market, even though I could use the money, and will keep as the center piece of my "wholly trinity": Burmester amp, Concert Fidelity preamp, and Venture speakers. Unfortunately, I still have to let my GNSC Wadia S7i go. I will never buy cables that cost more than my electronics/speakers.

 

[Thf99]

What did you test of Nordost Valhalla cables? I mean power cords, interconnect, speaker?

All three.

 

[Thf99]

Joe,

I have had Odin cables in my system. They are SOTA for sure, but I got 95% of the sound with Patrick Cullen Cables, and at 95% less money. He offers 100% satisfaction with over 30 day trial period. I sold all my cables to have him custom make all my cables and even tell him what connectors I want. I have taken my 911 MK3 off the market, even though I could use the money, and will keep as the center piece of my "wholly trinity": Burmester amp, Concert Fidelity preamp, and Venture speakers. Unfortunately, I still have to let my GNSC Wadia S7i go. I will never buy cables that cost more than my electronics/speakers.

I totally agree, Jim. I believe cables should cost no more than 20% of the rest of the system. Fortunately, the superb and all conquering cables (power, ic, speaker and digital) are very reasonable in cost ( less than 20% of my system).

 

[Thf99]

I mean cables made by my dealer.

 

[joeinid]

Joe,

I have had Odin cables in my system. They are SOTA for sure, but I got 95% of the sound with Patrick Cullen Cables, and at 95% less money. He offers 100% satisfaction with over 30 day trial period. I sold all my cables to have him custom make all my cables and even tell him what connectors I want. I have taken my 911 MK3 off the market, even though I could use the money, and will keep as the center piece of my "wholly trinity": Burmester amp, Concert Fidelity preamp, and Venture speakers. Unfortunately, I still have to let my GNSC Wadia S7i go. I will never buy cables that cost more than my electronics/speakers.

Thanks Jim. I'll check them out. I can't rationalize some of the prices as well. We'll talk.

 

[FrantzM]

My last post on the subject of cables as the thread is about the fabulous 911 MK III ... If one is really into cables the least financial harm and IME exact same sonic benefits compared to al the big names and big prices in cables would be the Supra or the Burmester cables either the Copper or Silver versions. All are extremely well constructed and do not cost an arm and a leg.
IMHO if one is bent on a given elctronics like many of us here ( Call me a Burmester-head if you will) once you have made your move within the electronics realm ) then one moves to the most important things actually what should have been thought of first: speakers and room treatment are the area where I would spend the money that those cables cost and power quality as a second layer .. I am quickly adding that IMHO ... It makes no sense to change cables to try to alter the sound (if they do it at all ) when the room is contributing to 20 dB peaks and valleys in the FR, or so reflective that it destroys the imaging and mess up the timing of music reproduction rather than worry about the tenth of dB cables bring to the equation.. (at best) . End of cables paragraph.

I have not yet heard a factory "monorized" 911. Do they change the layout? Do they use a different transformer, Power supply or or do they simply move the bridging to the inside? Curious about this? Van a mono brought back to stereo? I have heard bridged 911 and liked what they did .. Not a night and day difference but an ease that has to be heard to be understood .... Burmester squared ?

 

[microstrip]

(...) IMHO if one is bent on a given elctronics like many of us here ( Call me a Burmester-head if you will) once you have made your move within the electronics realm ) then one moves to the most important things actually what should have been thought of first: speakers and room treatment are the area where I would spend the money that those cables cost and power quality as a second layer .. I am quickly adding that IMHO ... It makes no sense to change cables to try to alter the sound (if they do it at all ) when the room is contributing to 20 dB peaks and valleys in the FR, or so reflective that it destroys the imaging and mess up the timing of music reproduction rather than worry about the tenth of dB cables bring to the equation.. (at best) . End of cables paragraph.

Frantz,

I was enjoying your genuine enthusiasm for Burmester but this argument line makes me rise my eyebrows - the measured differences between your loved Burmester and gear costing half its price will be also minimal ... Should we spare this cost difference considering that the room is contributing to 20 dB peaks and valleys in the FR, or so reflective that it destroys the imaging and mess up the timing of music reproduction

 

[Rocco I.]

.......I have not yet heard a factory "monorized" 911. Do they change the layout? Do they use a different transformer, Power supply or or do they simply move the bridging to the inside? Curious about this? Van a mono brought back to stereo? I have heard bridged 911 and liked what they did .. Not a night and day difference but an ease that has to be heard to be understood .... Burmester squared ?

Hi Frantz,

no any circuit difference with 911's mono version internally bridged by the Burmester factory.

The main point is that with such version you've a perfect match made in Berlin between the two (2) amps.

 

[FrantzM]

microstrp

As I said not the thread to discuss this. we can start a thread about ut in a hurry if you want .. Yep! still find Burmester better than gears measuring better although they hold their own measurements-wise

 

[Thf99]

I have not yet heard a factory "monorized" 911. Do they change the layout? Do they use a different transformer, Power supply or or do they simply move the bridging to the inside? Curious about this? Van a mono brought back to stereo? I have heard bridged 911 and liked what they did .. Not a night and day difference but an ease that has to be heard to be understood .... Burmester squared ?[/QUOTE]

The main benefit of a factory mono is, like Gary said, you have one less interface.

 

[jtein]

Wowsers! I haven't logged in for a few weeks and this thread is 56 pages long already! Took me some time to catch up...phew!

 

[microstrip]

microstrp

As I said not the thread to discuss this. we can start a thread about ut in a hurry if you want .. Yep! still find Burmester better than gears measuring better although they hold their own measurements-wise

Frantz,

My remark was about your opinions of the effect of the cables in Burmester equipment, not the measurements.

 

[AudioExplorations]

Wowsers! I haven't logged in for a few weeks and this thread is 56 pages long already! Took me some time to catch up...phew!

You don't want to know how many 911 mono blocks have been delivered in the meantime!

 

[joeinid]

You don't want to know how many 911 mono blocks have been delivered in the meantime!

Just staggering Obviously there is some major Burmester love out there

 

[NorthStar]

---Yes indeed Joe; this thread speaks for itself. :b

 

[mep]

Burmester must be filling his gear with audio crack because he seems to addict his users. Seriously, I do wish we had some more insight to how he is designing his circuits to understand what he is doing different than others.

 

[NorthStar]

---He's an European man! :b

And there is a lot of info with pictures avail online, behind the man and Burmester the company.
...It is indeed very unique; the entire design process.
...And all with one goal in mind: Purity of the Audio signal.

 

[Thf99]

Wowsers! I haven't logged in for a few weeks and this thread is 56 pages long already! Took me some time to catch up...phew!

You don't know what you are missing, Joseph!