Burmester Music Server 111 ...

[FrantzM]

This is still a great option I am considering. I've heard the 077 dac module was equal to the 089 and possibly even equal the the 069 DAC (I do not believe it can equal the 069 dac because it retails for under $5K).

Joe

Joel

I am not one of those who equate price with performance .. At the rate things digital are improving, Why Not? The footprint of many DAC is in the case and the power supply.. We like our nice casing and the module dispense us of that .. As for the Power Supply have you look at the power supply of the 077? As for Digital noise .. It can be manged and Burmester did that in the aforementioned 870 DAC back in 1987!! Proof will be in honest and unbiased (extremely difficult) audition.. if it is better than the 970 (a product I still can't understand why Burmester nixed it) I am good with that ...

 

[joeinid]

Hi Frantz,

You have more experience with this than I do. I hope to get more info from my dealer in the next few weeks.

 

[Husk]

Burmester 111

Frantz. Are you planning on auditioning the 111 anytime soon?

 

[FrantzM]

Frantz. Are you planning on auditioning the 111 anytime soon?

When it lands in the USA yes.

 

[garylkoh]

Another reason for Frantz to come to Seattle on 4th May. It'll be driving the 909 monos.

View attachment 3472

 

[joeinid]

Gary,

Thank you for the photo. Sweeeeeet.

 

[microstrip]

Joel

I am not one of those who equate price with performance ..

FrantzM,

This could be the start of an interesting (and dangerous...) thread - why can not another manufacturer reproduce the performance of a 911mk3 at half the price?

 

[joeinid]

FrantzM,

This could be the start of an interesting (and dangerous...) thread - why can not another manufacturer reproduce the performance of a 911mk3 at half the price?

That is a very good question and I'd love an answer myself. Unfortunately, it has not been done yet or those amps would be flying off of the shelves. Some come close but have not arrived yet.

 

[garylkoh]

FrantzM,

This could be the start of an interesting (and dangerous...) thread - why can not another manufacturer reproduce the performance of a 911mk3 at half the price?

..... even when he has a 911 mk3 to benchmark against during development

 

[FrantzM]

FrantzM,

This could be the start of an interesting (and dangerous...) thread - why can not another manufacturer reproduce the performance of a 911mk3 at half the price?

Possible and I would simply jump on that amp ... So far I haven't heard it.. The amps who have struck my fancy so far, they all hover around the $20k mark. Have I heard all the amps out there ? Of course not! .. But right now I like the Bryston 28B monos, The Spectral 360 and the Dar Tzeel 108 all around the same price ... I could live happilly with any of these...

If there are components out there that match Burmester quality at a lesser price I am all for auditioning and if truly exceptional in the way I think Burmester products are .. Well ...

@Gary

I will see if I can swing by, it might however be more difficult becasue of prior engagements... DAMN this is TEMPTING!!!!!! Sorry I had to shout ...

 

[joeinid]

Frantz,

I see you have excellent taste. Your list is similar to mine

 

[docvale]

Guys,

wait a moment
The 911 MkIII is around $30,000 on the US market, am I right?
Despite all my auditions of Burmester systems have been exciting (apart of the 032 integrated), I guess you may find a $15,000 power amp that can do excellent as well.

What about the Spectral DMA-260?

Chris from Computer Audiophile now uses the pair DMC-30SS MkII and the DMA-260 to drive "your" TAD CR-1

 

[joeinid]

Guys,

wait a moment
The 911 MkIII is around $30,000 on the US market, am I right?
Despite all my auditions of Burmester systems have been exciting (apart of the 032 integrated), I guess you may find a $15,000 power amp that can do excellent as well.

What about the Spectral DMA-260?

Chris from Computer Audiophile now uses the pair DMC-30SS MkII and the DMA-260 to drive "your" TAD CR-1

Hi Valerio,

Yes, you are correct on pricing. At this level, I guess it is also a matter of taste. Like Gary said, Blonde vs Brunette

Since I've learned Chris' reference is Spectral on the TADs, I plan on hearing them (Spectral) as well as a few other setups to get the flavor of each. One thing I do know, the CR-1's are here to stay. From what I understand Spectral may be more absolutely correct and more neutral, while Burmester, for example, may be a little richer and slightly warmer. And yes, some of the alternatives may be less expensive but with Spectral you must consider the matching MIT interconnects and MIT speaker cables. I also believe the Spectral gear may be more sensitive to AC power and may be less tolerant of less than stellar electrical quality. I plan on finding out for myself. Even with my terrible AC, my Burmester is dead silent and sounds amazing. Once I sort out my AC issues, get some new outlets installed and possibly a 948 conditioner, I should be good to go.

 

[AudioExplorations]

The 911 MkIII is around $30,000 on the US market, am I right?

It's funny how pricing varies in regions. The 911mk3 is 16keur here, which equates to $21k - 70% of the US retail.
The TAD CR1 on the other hand is 38keur here and also $38k in the US, so here its 130% of the US retail.

 

[docvale]

True. Buying Burmester and Spectral in Italy, for example, costs more or less the same.

Joe, I've listened to your TADs twice, once driven by the TAD "entry level" electronics, and once by reference level Viola amplification and Weiss Medea DAC.
The TAD DAC-amplification performed amazingly (despite someone may have prejudices against class-D).

Regarding the matter of tastes, this is obviously true, but it is also dropping the question "may I have the same quality for half of the price?", as the answer would be necessarily "yes"

Regarding the AC issues, I have not enough experience. Anyway, I've learnt from an Italian Burmester hard-core fan that Dieter himself considers the 948 conditioner as the most important component of his chains.

 

[garylkoh]

It's funny how pricing varies in regions. The 911mk3 is 16keur here, which equates to $21k - 70% of the US retail.
The TAD CR1 on the other hand is 38keur here and also $38k in the US, so here its 130% of the US retail.

Burmester is in the European Market, so prices there would be about 30% cheaper than in the US.

TAD is exported from Japan to US and to Europe, and the landed prices would be the same. In Europe, prices are quoted including VAT (an average of 25% throughout Europe) and import duty (about 6%). In the US, prices are quoted without sales tax because sales tax can be different from state to state and even city to city. So, add up to 15% to the $38k and it would begin to look like the same price.

US products imported into Europe would cost much more than 30% when compared to US retail prices.

I suspect that worldwide pricing would have to change soon. There are recent moves in the US to collect sales tax for internet sales and trans-state shipping. With the Internet, the whole world is becoming a single market.

 

[docvale]

... US products imported into Europe would cost much more than 30% when compared to US retail prices.

Many US products, in Italy, cost, after VAT, at least twice the price of what they cost in US, pre-VAT.
I'm currently living in the US, so, if I could afford a hiend system, it would be composed by US gear. If I moved back to Europe, I'd probably look to German products.

I suspect that worldwide pricing would have to change soon. There are recent moves in the US to collect sales tax for internet sales and trans-state shipping. With the Internet, the whole world is becoming a single market.

True. Anyway, there's the problem with the AC voltage. If it were homogeneous all throughout the world...

 

[docvale]

Going back to the topic of this thread.

I've seen the 111 in static display at the NY Audio Show. The unit looked very pretty (as usual for Burmester) and it was hooked to the 909 monos.

My 2 cents.
It may be great, but I'd have serious doubts in investing $50,000 on a music server. It's the principle per se that is not exciting to me.
I am concerned about the flexibility of the piece of gear: what happens if new digital standards come out? You may also have to change the preamp... also, music servers with internal storage have ridiculous prices per hard-drive size...
In the end, all the manufacturers of media servers got converted to iPad control (even Sooloos). At this point, a Mac Mini with iTunes+supporting software (PM, Amarra and so on), connected through USB to a DAC may be as good as any music server (and more flexible!).

 

[NorthStar]

I'm simply amazed when reading the posts from this thread mentioning those kinds of World prices!
Burmester, Europe, Italy, Germany, and all that Jazz, is very good indeed, but really that good?

It's like Boulder here in the United States of Colorado... :b

* China (Peking) is having a world car show right now: simply amazing as well.

 

[joeinid]

Going back to the topic of this thread.

I've seen the 111 in static display at the NY Audio Show. The unit looked very pretty (as usual for Burmester) and it was hooked to the 909 monos.

My 2 cents.
It may be great, but I'd have serious doubts in investing $50,000 on a music server. It's the principle per se that is not exciting to me.
I am concerned about the flexibility of the piece of gear: what happens if new digital standards come out? You may also have to change the preamp... also, music servers with internal storage have ridiculous prices per hard-drive size...
In the end, all the manufacturers of media servers got converted to iPad control (even Sooloos). At this point, a Mac Mini with iTunes+supporting software (PM, Amarra and so on), connected through USB to a DAC may be as good as any music server (and more flexible!).

Valerio,

All valid points and I am concerned as well. I have not heard it yet, and some members here will be checking out the 111 in a week or two. Very exciting.

I'm simply amazed when reading the posts from this thread mentioning those kinds of World prices!
Burmester, Europe, Italy, Germany, and all that Jazz, is very good indeed, but really that good?

It's like Boulder here in the United States of Colorado... :b

* China (Peking) is having a world car show right now: simply amazing as well.

Hopefully.