C-J ACT2 Preamp with McIntosh power amps

[Big Dog RJ]

Good day folks, greetings from Melbourne, Australia!

Ellen was here last week with her lovely wifey Porsha De Rossi, they looked a great couple indeed!

Trust everyone is doing alright and having a good Easter, keeping those chocolate temptations at bay...

Just checking with you well known audio experts on whether an ACT2 preamp partnered with a McIntosh MC302 power amp would be a good match?
Loudspeakers are the QUAD ESL Reference 2905's, and digital source is the MCD301 (McIntosh SACD/CD player).
All interconnects, speaker cables and power cords are Nordost, including power conditioners, and AC stabilizers.

So far I have tried the following with my Quads:
a) c-j LP125 mono amps (not that exciting at all)
b) Quad 80 mono amps (very sweet sound, smooth, not much bass and depth though, excellent midrange)
c) Cary Audio special edition mono amps (similar results to the Quad monoblocks)
d) Audio Research Ref 250 monoblocks (outstanding sound, very nice overall presentation)
e) Lamm ML2 series 1 mono amps (excellent soundstage and imaging, better matched with easier loads, definitely not good with ESL's in the long term)

Apart from the list above, what I liked the most is my humble MV60SE fitted with KT120 tubes. Some of the bigger monoblocks don't even come close, for that matter the LP70S sounds far better for some reason...

ARC Ref 250's were probably the best sound, but I really don't want to deal with tube monoblocks again as I have done in the past and had my fingers burnt.
I've used ARC, VTL, Manley, and Lamm previously, all good, but I still prefer that c-j and mac sound to any of them. Don't know what it is...

The Quad 2905's really don't benefit with more power or current since they have limited requirements. Anywhere between 50 watts to 100 on tubes is more than adequate, and somewhere around 250 to 300 on SS is just fine.

My listening levels are moderate, never loud, and always occur during midnight till 4am only on weekends. Never get to listen on week days or any time in-between since the good wife sits on the tele...

I will be keeping my MV60SE, as to me this is the best satisfaction I have gotten in my entire audio history of systems. I may purchase a pair of Sonus Faber monitors to partner with the MV60SE as a secondary system when listening to solo violin, piano, or small jazz ensembles down the line.

I have auditioned the new McIntosh power amps and they all sounded very musical indeed, just what I was after. Also auditioned the new MC2301 mono amps, now this is what I would really want to get my hands on, someday... what an experience!

I would like to know of your advice and suggestions, or whether I should just save my money and enjoy what I've got since I am enjoying the music afterall!

Anyone out there with an ACT2? Or of similar c-j preamp standard partnered with McIntosh amps, would be nice to hear from you.
Cheers, RJ

 

[joeinid]

Hi RJ,

I had a pair of MC601's hooked up to a Conrad Johnson ET-5 preamp then a GAT. They were both superb combinations and I really enjoyed playing music on that system. The signature of the preamp really shined through. Big, layered sound stage. Warm full bodied sound. Just wonderful and I still fondly remember it well. I don't think you can go wrong with your choices.

 

[microstrip]

I was listening to a cj ACT2s2 with a premier 350 some days ago - superb sound. If you do not want to go tubes, I can not imagine better value, specially because the premier 350's that was always fantastic value for money, and can be bought now at about half in the used market.

 

[XV-1]

If you want to go prem 350, ask Jansen at the Audio Connection in Sydney. They have one there after a trade in. I think they still have it.

cheers

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Thanks for the replies mates.

Interesting to know your points and experiences.
I'm very keen on the MC301 power amp, and have heard the premier 350. Both are very good, with extraordinary value indeed. There are no new premier 350's left here in Melbourne, only used ones in fairly good condition. For that kind of money, I prefer the MC301 being a brand new unit straight from the USA plus those beautiful blue meters are very addictive!

My McIntosh buddy has also offered a great price for the MC301, which also allows me to save a bit and further upgrade to a MCD500 sacd player, trading in my brand new MCD301 player.
They are also the dealers for Sonus Faber, so this is where I would want to be heading if I am after a pair of SF monitors for the MV60SE.

I have used many c-j SS amps before starting from their MF series and up to their premier series. To me c-j's tube amps are far superior in a different league compared to their SS designs. I think that's the way c-j has focused themselves, concentrating the SOTA more on their tube designs.

Thanks again, and have a good one.
Cheers! RJ

 

[LL21]

Thanks for the replies mates.

Interesting to know your points and experiences.
I'm very keen on the MC301 power amp, and have heard the premier 350. Both are very good, with extraordinary value indeed. There are no new premier 350's left here in Melbourne, only used ones in fairly good condition. For that kind of money, I prefer the MC301 being a brand new unit straight from the USA plus those beautiful blue meters are very addictive!

My McIntosh buddy has also offered a great price for the MC301, which also allows me to save a bit and further upgrade to a MCD500 sacd player, trading in my brand new MCD301 player.
They are also the dealers for Sonus Faber, so this is where I would want to be heading if I am after a pair of SF monitors for the MV60SE.

I have used many c-j SS amps before starting from their MF series and up to their premier series. To me c-j's tube amps are far superior in a different league compared to their SS designs. I think that's the way c-j has focused themselves, concentrating the SOTA more on their tube designs.

Thanks again, and have a good one.
Cheers! RJ

Hey RJ - sounds like you are doing some smart trades here and there to maximize your system. Good stuff. I respect your convictions regarding the mid-powered tube amps that CJ designs vs their others. I remain very impressed by the 350SA...just dont love it. I nearly went after it myself when i was debating about monoblocking my MV60s...a second hand unit came my way, and i went to audition it from a guy who was moving country. Incredibly powerful, far more powerful than i would have imagined from the 85lb amp (less than 40kg). But i hear you on magic from the MV60...quite a special amp in that regard. Air, space, mids. and probably vastly improved over my original versions (not SE, not KT120...i had original stock EL34s...so quite a ways to go in terms of power, linearity, treble balance).

 

[XV-1]

ok, no cj ss

I used to have 2 x Mac 2102's being run in parallel. Very nice rich sound.
Listened to the mc501's extensively and the did most things well, but to me were just boring.

I then went back to cj prem8a's with Teflon caps. This is quite a bit better than both Mac combos. BTW, my pre was the ART but is now the GAT.

Personally, I cannot see the mc302 being anywhere near the same class as the Lamm,'s or the ARC 250's.

 

[microstrip]

ok, no cj ss (...)

I understand that most people prefer the cj tubed units to their solid state, but I would like to point that most of the time these findings are based on listening their older units, the MF series from the 90's, that sounded nice but nothing special. The new premier 350 is no way related to these old designs. It has some wonderful medium frequencies and is much faster in the bass than any McIntosh solid state amplifier I have listened to. It does not have the weight in the bass of some of these amplifiers, but it bass is much more articulate and tuneful. If you need some power, only the much more expensive cj monoblocks such as the premier 8 or ARTs can compete with it.

It breaks my heart knowing that you own a cj preamplifier, and can find used premier 350's in your country (a rarity here) , and will buy new Mc's from the USA! Remember you can go to cj site and download the Martin Colloms review and others review - http://www.conrad-johnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/reviews.html

Although some people think differently, IMHO the system synergy we can usually get using preamplifiers and amplifiers from the same brand outweighs smaller characteristics of individual components. In order to get better results you will have to spend a lot more, not forgetting that cables and source become much more critical, and usually need to be expensive.

Disclaimer - yes, I own a cj premier350. Although my system is currently all tubes ARC, I keep it just in case I sometime in the future want to come back to solid state.

 

[LL21]

Although some people think differently, IMHO the system synergy we can usually get using preamplifiers and amplifiers from the same brand outweighs smaller characteristics of individual components. In order to get better results you will have to spend a lot more, not forgetting that cables and source become much more critical, and usually need to be expensive.

I admit i have been curious about mixing in a CJ ART mono set with my GAT, or a Pandora with my Gryphon Colosseum...more to learn than anything else. I am curious about what you describe which certainly makes sense...the designer designed them to work together. Still, one reason (besides access) that i have not done so...is no true interest. Just enjoying music! Lucky i suppose, or perhaps ignorance is bliss!

 

[XV-1]

Although some people think differently, IMHO the system synergy we can usually get using preamplifiers and amplifiers from the same brand outweighs smaller characteristics of individual components. In order to get better results you will have to spend a lot more, not forgetting that cables and source become much more critical, and usually need to be expensive.

Disclaimer - yes, I own a cj premier350.

Very true. I owned the prem350 and had to get to the D'agostino stereo to get to something that was better then the prem350. Is it 5 times better than the 350, of course not.
At the relatively small cost, the pre 350 is a bargain and I think a better match to the ACT2 than the GAT, primarily due to the slightly lower gain of the ACT2. The prem350 is high gain, and as a bit of a pain to get it quiet etc.

I wish I could have kept the prem350 as matching it with a ACT2 / ct5 would be a great match for another system.
But you can't keep anything, as I will never sell my big dog premier 8a's as they still have the best top end life I have heard.

Cheers

 

[bgiliberti]

I understand that most people prefer the cj tubed units to their solid state, but I would like to point that most of the time these findings are based on listening their older units, the MF series from the 90's, that sounded nice but nothing special. ...

This definitely isn't an "I'm right, your wrong" comment in the least, but I gotta put in a good word for the MF80, which was the first MOSFET unit they ever did, and IMHO, the only really successful one. It had only one set of MOSFETs. I think what may have happened later is that they ran into to AB switching problems when they tried to add more sets of MOSFETS to get the power up. The MF80 had a very tube-like sound, and I remember comparing it to the MF200, which sounded too dark and a little rough right in the range where it went to AB. I recently auditioned an et250 against my MF80 thinking it was time for an upgrade, and much as I liked it (with my harbeth 30s), I and everyone preferred the MF80 -- in my system of course. Now, I would die for a mint Premier 350, but the et250 is a fairly similar design on the back-end to the 350, so maybe not. So I guess I would say that if you see and mf80 on the used market, where they are real cheap, give a test ride at least. With just 80W it's no powerhouse, but believe me, it's a nice piece of work by CJ, and better IMHO than the later MF designs. There is some tube-like magic to MOSFETs, which the MF80 definitely captured, apparently in a way that later, more powerful iterations did not.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

ok, no cj ss

I used to have 2 x Mac 2102's being run in parallel. Very nice rich sound.
Listened to the mc501's extensively and the did most things well, but to me were just boring.

I then went back to cj prem8a's with Teflon caps. This is quite a bit better than both Mac combos. BTW, my pre was the ART but is now the GAT.

Personally, I cannot see the mc302 being anywhere near the same class as the Lamm,'s or the ARC 250's.

Yes mate, I agree with your statement ref to the Lamm's and ARC Ref 250's. It's just that the chap based in Sydney wants some ridiculous price for his Ref 250's. My ML2's were sold off to a real music lover who has a truly dedicated room, his system is stunning driving a pair of Wilson X 2's. I was never able to quite get that soundstage from my Quad 2905's with the Lamm's hence I was not doing justice. And most of all what I learnt was just because it costs a lot doesn't necessary mean it will sound top notch, also the room and right environment play a HUGE factor. I got the Lamm's at a great price from Singapore, therefore I didn't lose out on selling either.

Now, what I want to do is make wiser decisions with the right amount of money and keep the rest for purchasing music! Therefore, I am starting slow again with caution and looking at a nice McIntosh to start with since I have heard many good things when partnered with c-j preamps so far.
Like I said before, a premier 350 I can get hold of, but it is not new. I also don't know this seller too well, so therefore I will not go there.

Why would anyone want to sell a premier 350 in the first place? I don't know, perhaps I'm too sceptical...

 

[Big Dog RJ]

I understand that most people prefer the cj tubed units to their solid state, but I would like to point that most of the time these findings are based on listening their older units, the MF series from the 90's, that sounded nice but nothing special. The new premier 350 is no way related to these old designs. It has some wonderful medium frequencies and is much faster in the bass than any McIntosh solid state amplifier I have listened to. It does not have the weight in the bass of some of these amplifiers, but it bass is much more articulate and tuneful. If you need some power, only the much more expensive cj monoblocks such as the premier 8 or ARTs can compete with it.

It breaks my heart knowing that you own a cj preamplifier, and can find used premier 350's in your country (a rarity here) , and will buy new Mc's from the USA! Remember you can go to cj site and download the Martin Colloms review and others review - http://www.conrad-johnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/reviews.html

Although some people think differently, IMHO the system synergy we can usually get using preamplifiers and amplifiers from the same brand outweighs smaller characteristics of individual components. In order to get better results you will have to spend a lot more, not forgetting that cables and source become much more critical, and usually need to be expensive.

Disclaimer - yes, I own a cj premier350. Although my system is currently all tubes ARC, I keep it just in case I sometime in the future want to come back to solid state.

Hi Mate,
I understand perfectly what you are stating about the premier 350. And yes I have listened to it for a while driving Quad 2905's, the exact same ESL speakers as the dealer had, which I now own. I enjoyed the premier 350 very much indeed and it did everything right with an awesome soundstage. But then I fell in love with the MV60SE! And now with the new KT120 tubes, there really is no turning back.

I also understand what you're saying about the Mc amps, yes totally agree. They are probably not going to beat a c-j design when it comes to musicality. But what I did notice about them is that when you partner a Mc amp with a top-line c-j preamp - the sound is awesome as well, and it is a kind of special sound that has all the power together with that c-j finesse. So this is what I am currently after.

Who knows, perhaps later I will eventually settle for one of c-j's top-of-the-line tube monoblocks. But until then I just want to enjoy some c-j/Mc power - "for the love of music it just sounds right!"

Cheers, RJ

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Thanks for your replies guys, it is certainly enlightening to hear all your experiences and there seems to be a wealth of knowledge here.

As for the rest of my system, Preamp, digital source, cables, interconnects, power cords, mounting racks, AC power conditioners, voltage stabs, QRT systems etc., and of course the speakers, I will not be changing or upgrading any of these items for a long time. I have a daughter who is going to high school next year, and a cranky wife who prefers I spend on her diamond rings rather than good decent audio! Therefore, I must get my new amp before any of these two personal factors get out of hand...

Dam it! time is catching up and I'm getting older, can't believe she is starting high school! Where the hec did that come from?
Should I retire right now and enjoy the music...

Cheers mates and have a good one.
RJ

 

[joeinid]

Good Luck RJ. Remember, enjoy the journey and the music. Any quality gear will give you many years of pleasure. It's all about the music.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Yes! Your absolutely right about that 110%.

I know of many well to do people who have spent a colossal amount of money on their systems, rooms etc, and still can't seem to be satisfied. I know this one chap who keeps upgrading like changing socks! They really don't know what they're looking for or what to look for... and what to appreciate.

There is this real cool chap back from my home country, Sri Lanka, who really enjoys his music. He has the most comprehensive LP collection of classical music I have ever seen, plus he attends live events nearly as often as we do groceries. This guy does not earn a lot and has managed to salvage parts, second units and what nots from all over the world to put together a truly DIY system that kicks some ass. He is 72 years of age and loves his music every bit, plus what's real cool is he's only spent about $350 in total. Whereas his music collection is probably worth thousands. This is one guy when you meet, you will appreciate the finer things in life that bring you.

There are a few people like this left in our material world...
Cheers to all, and enjoy your music.
RJ

 

[LL21]

Yes! Your absolutely right about that 110%.

I know of many well to do people who have spent a colossal amount of money on their systems, rooms etc, and still can't seem to be satisfied. I know this one chap who keeps upgrading like changing socks! They really don't know what they're looking for or what to look for... and what to appreciate.

There is this real cool chap back from my home country, Sri Lanka, who really enjoys his music. He has the most comprehensive LP collection of classical music I have ever seen, plus he attends live events nearly as often as we do groceries. This guy does not earn a lot and has managed to salvage parts, second units and what nots from all over the world to put together a truly DIY system that kicks some ass. He is 72 years of age and loves his music every bit, plus what's real cool is he's only spent about $350 in total. Whereas his music collection is probably worth thousands. This is one guy when you meet, you will appreciate the finer things in life that bring you.

There are a few people like this left in our material world...
Cheers to all, and enjoy your music.
RJ

Great story!